OS2 World.Com Forum

Subject  :  Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  Fudeba daniel@caetano.eng.br
Date  :  29 Aug, 2006 on 14:42
Anybody knows if Java 1.5 will ever be ported to OS/2?
The Internet Banking of my site never worked right on Mozilla/Firefox + Java 1.3/1.4.2 (I had to use it with Netscape 4.61 + Java 1.3), but now it refuses to work even on Netscape 4.61 + Java 1.3. I've read some explanations inside the site (using Windoze Firefox + Java 1.5) and it's said the site security now requires Java 1.5.0.6.
I can access it using Java 1.5 on Virtual PC, but doing this is *very* slow...

My Kindest Regards,

Daniel Caetano


Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  QHand
Date  :  29 Aug, 2006 on 19:17
Hope that SUN releases Java as open source software.

Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  rbri rbri@compuserve.com
Date  :  29 Aug, 2006 on 20:28
Maybe http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/ will provide a portable solution someday....

Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  Sebadoh sys3175@optonline.net
Date  :  29 Aug, 2006 on 21:30

Fudeba (29 Aug, 2006 14:42):
Anybody knows if Java 1.5 will ever be ported to OS/2?
The Internet Banking of my site never worked right on Mozilla/Firefox + Java 1.3/1.4.2 (I had to use it with Netscape 4.61 + Java 1.3), but now it refuses to work even on Netscape 4.61 + Java 1.3. I've read some explanations inside the site (using Windoze Firefox + Java 1.5) and it's said the site security now requires Java 1.5.0.6.
I can access it using Java 1.5 on Virtual PC, but doing this is *very* slow...

My Kindest Regards,

Daniel Caetano


No. java 1.5 will not be released for OS/2 even if Sun made the full sources available I doubt there is enough manpower in developers to make it useable under os/2. Use windows, or use a different bank. problem solved.


Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  melf mikaelelf@os2ug.se
Date  :  29 Aug, 2006 on 23:42

Sebadoh (29 Aug, 2006 22:56):

No. java 1.5 will not be released for OS/2 even if Sun made the full sources available I doubt there is enough manpower in developers to make it useable under os/2. Use windows, or use a different bank. problem solved.


Maybee I'm naive or very ignorant, but if Serenity put so much effort in developing eCS and also to bring forward a native version of OO2.0, shouldn't they also work for a continuing support of Javareleases? E.g. by collaboration with Innotek or Golden code?

---
/Mikael


Subject  :  eMail to Innotek
Author  :  BigWarpGuy
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 00:45
I sent an e-mail to Innotek asking if there will be a Java 1.5 for OS/2-eCS. I am waiting for a reply.

---
BigWarpGuy
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
OS/2-eCS.org
Director of Communications
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
supporting the past OS/2 user and the future eCS user
http://www.os2ecs.org

Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  Sebadoh sys3175@optonline.net
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 01:14

melf (29 Aug, 2006 23:42):

Sebadoh (29 Aug, 2006 22:56):

No. java 1.5 will not be released for OS/2 even if Sun made the full sources available I doubt there is enough manpower in developers to make it useable under os/2. Use windows, or use a different bank. problem solved.


Maybee I'm naive or very ignorant, but if Serenity put so much effort in developing eCS and also to bring forward a native version of OO2.0, shouldn't they also work for a continuing support of Javareleases? E.g. by collaboration with Innotek or Golden code?


Goldencode is pretty much dead in the water. They were working with old sources of Java, which they had to pay for and none of their porting effort is transferable to the 1.5 branch. 1.5 is HUGE. it dwarfs mozilla and openoffice.


Subject  :  Re:eMail to Innotek
Author  :  Sebadoh sys3175@optonline.net
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 01:14

BigWarpGuy (30 Aug, 2006 00:45):
I sent an e-mail to Innotek asking if there will be a Java 1.5 for OS/2-eCS. I am waiting for a reply.

That is what I like about you, you are very optimistic =)


Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 04:22
Duplicate removed.

Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 04:22
If I might venture an opinion, I believe the prospect of a current, native JAVA for OS/2 is a losing battle at this point. Sun writes the rules of the game to keep itself ahead of its big-player competition. The non-Sun Java 5's are still scrambling to meet compatibility with Sun's latest revision of Java 5. If they ever do get too close, Sun will release Java 6 with a smirk and everyone must start again.

I am convinced it is intentional. Java is now a de facto standard for programmers, and a must-have for any platform. Sun maintains its own status as having the best JRE/JDK and the best-supported OS's for Java applications. No-one can quite keep up.

I believe that for OS/2 to main compatibility with Java applications, we will have to look beyond the normal rules of the game (i.e. "When is Java 1.5 - aka Java 5 - coming out for OS/2?") and cheat it by "piggy-backing" on something else.

For example, if GCJ were ported to OS/2, then whatever Java classes are implemented in libgcj would become available to OS/2, and Java apps could be compiled into native OS/2 apps. It's a long way from full Java 5 compatibility, but it is under current aggressive development and open source.

Even more adventurous might be to make use of the OpenSolaris source to try to implement some binary compatibility with Solaris, enabling OS/2 to run Sun's JRE for Solaris.

Now both of those ideas are no small amount of work, and it could be that neither of the above is feasable, but the point is that given the state of the Java game, we are going to need some "OS/2-esque" creativity here, much like the genius of Odin using a hybrid of Open32 and WINE, to come up with a short-cut long-term solution, and more than one developer is going to have to step up to the plate.


Subject  :  Re:eMail to Innotek
Author  :  Smedles
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 05:29

Sebadoh (30 Aug, 2006 01:14):

BigWarpGuy (30 Aug, 2006 00:45):
I sent an e-mail to Innotek asking if there will be a Java 1.5 for OS/2-eCS. I am waiting for a reply.

That is what I like about you, you are very optimistic =)


Or naive - depends how much of a cynic you are


Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  Fahrvenugen
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 07:11
At this point I think if Java 1.5 is ever going to run on OS/2, its likely to run as an Odin build of the Win32 version, similar to how the Innotek Java 1.4 is today. However I don't see that happening any time soon.

On the other hand, Sun did announce not long ago that it intended to open source Java. But there are questions about what that open source license will look like.

Right now I think it is a waiting game...


Subject  :  Re:eMail to Innotek
Author  :  BigWarpGuy
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 20:04

BigWarpGuy (30 Aug, 2006 00:45):
I sent an e-mail to Innotek asking if there will be a Java 1.5 for OS/2-eCS. I am waiting for a reply.

The reply from Innotek.
"
Hello,

At this point we do not plan any updates to our OS/2 products besides maintenance updates.

Best regards,
Achim Hasenmueller.

Tom Lee Mullins wrote:
> Will there be a Java 1.5 for OS/2? It could be worth paying for.
>
> Tom Lee Mullins
>
>


--
Kind regards / mit freundlichen Gruessen / Cordialement,
Achim Hasenmueller

InnoTek Systemberatung GmbH
phon: +49 7151 60405-0 (fax: -111)
achimha@innotek.de
http://www.innotek.de
Germany
"


---
BigWarpGuy
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
OS/2-eCS.org
Director of Communications
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
supporting the past OS/2 user and the future eCS user
http://www.os2ecs.org


Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  Terry tgindy@yahoo.com
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 20:27
Just thinking out loud, but not too loudly...

Perhaps if necessary, an SVista low-overhead linux (i.e. Slackware/Vector) using a Linux/Java 1.5 combination to run future Java 1.5+ applications?


Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  QHand
Date  :  30 Aug, 2006 on 20:27
You should know that answer like Flash Player...
Only the BIG companies request for it, otherwise we have no chance.

Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  Martin
Date  :  31 Aug, 2006 on 04:19
According to what we post on this forums some time ago the java source code is available for Universities and Research, but it is not open source under an OSI approved license.

eros2 posted the Mustang (java 6) URL
http://download.java.net/jdk6/
Not sure if it is the complete JRE/JDK source code but it limited with the Java Research License.

Or J2SE 1.5 Update 8
https://tiger.dev.java.net/jdk_5_0_08.html

But possible, if someone wants to make some research... and have a thousend students to port it... who knows (?).


Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  warprulz daniel.lee.kruse@gmail.com
Date  :  31 Aug, 2006 on 07:43

Martin (31 Aug, 2006 04:19):
According to what we post on this forums some time ago the java source code is available for Universities and Research, but it is not open source under an OSI approved license.

eros2 posted the Mustang (java 6) URL
http://download.java.net/jdk6/
Not sure if it is the complete JRE/JDK source code but it limited with the Java Research License.

Or J2SE 1.5 Update 8
https://tiger.dev.java.net/jdk_5_0_08.html

But possible, if someone wants to make some research... and have a thousend students to port it... who knows (?).


Bingo. It would be easily doable. The OS layer is abstracted out like the Apache Portable Runtime, OpenOffice, Eclipse SWT, etc. It's just a matter of having time and manpower. And then the distribution sore spot that we couldn't do without funding. The source code is open source, the binary distribution/useage are not. It would be a fun project for personal use only. Now will Sun move toward making the binary distribution/useage open source in the future? That is the key.

For me, Eclipse's SWT comes first. Ever since my auto accident, I haven't had much time to devote to it.


Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  01 Sep, 2006 on 01:20

Martin (31 Aug, 2006 04:19):
According to what we post on this forums some time ago the java source code is available for Universities and Research, but it is not open source under an OSI approved license.

eros2 posted the Mustang (java 6) URL
http://download.java.net/jdk6/
Not sure if it is the complete JRE/JDK source code but it limited with the Java Research License.

Or J2SE 1.5 Update 8
https://tiger.dev.java.net/jdk_5_0_08.html

But possible, if someone wants to make some research... and have a thousend students to port it... who knows (?).


Interesting. It doesn't seem to define very specifically what is "research," but redistribution seems strictly limited to whatever "research" is being done. It does seem that the intent of releasing it for research is to A) educate potential future programmers about Java technology, and B) get interested programmers to do some of the work of improving Java for Sun.

So, assuming the source that is available is sufficient for the task, porting Java to OS/2 could be research in the sense that it involves studying what it takes to port Java to an unsupported platform.

The results of that research could be in the form of source code and build instructions so it runs on OS/2. The researcher(s) could not distribute that to the public, but they could present it back to Sun, who would be free (and maybe even pleased?) to distribute it in binary form along with the rest of the binary distributions. That would constitute an improvement.

All too easy perhaps. Whoever undertakes the project would need to check with Sun and see if that meets the conditions of the JRL.


Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  abwillis abwillis1@gmail.com
Date  :  01 Sep, 2006 on 02:43

obiwan (01 Sep, 2006 01:20):
Interesting. It doesn't seem to define very specifically what is "research," but redistribution seems strictly limited to whatever "research" is being done. It does seem that the intent of releasing it for research is to A) educate potential future programmers about Java technology, and B) get interested programmers to do some of the work of improving Java for Sun.

So, assuming the source that is available is sufficient for the task, porting Java to OS/2 could be research in the sense that it involves studying what it takes to port Java to an unsupported platform.

The results of that research could be in the form of source code and build instructions so it runs on OS/2. The researcher(s) could not distribute that to the public, but they could present it back to Sun, who would be free (and maybe even pleased?) to distribute it in binary form along with the rest of the binary distributions. That would constitute an improvement.

All too easy perhaps. Whoever undertakes the project would need to check with Sun and see if that meets the conditions of the JRL.



Well, if you are doing "Reseach" on porting to an unsupported platform, part of that would require distribution to test this new build... All in the name of "research" of course.
Andy

Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  Fahrvenugen
Date  :  01 Sep, 2006 on 08:18
In theory it is all great to talk about, but I'm not sure Sun would be too receptive to an OS/2 port. Does anyone recall a while back in the year (or maybe it was last year) when Sun came out with a press release announcing they were going to target the "2 million" (or some such numbers) still using OS/2 and get them on to their platform? Somehow if they're trying to get OS/2 users to switch off OS/2, I doubt they'll be all that supportive of a native and up to date version of Java. But that's just my guess.

Subject  :  Re:Java Virtual Machine 1.5.0.6
Author  :  warprulz daniel.lee.kruse@gmail.com
Date  :  01 Sep, 2006 on 16:31
<snip>


Interesting. It doesn't seem to define very specifically what is "research," but redistribution seems strictly limited to whatever "research" is being done. It does seem that the intent of releasing it for research is to A) educate potential future programmers about Java technology, and B) get interested programmers to do some of the work of improving Java for Sun.

That's how I understand the license.



So, assuming the source that is available is sufficient for the task, porting Java to OS/2 could be research in the sense that it involves studying what it takes to port Java to an unsupported platform.

The results of that research could be in the form of source code and build instructions so it runs on OS/2. The researcher(s) could not distribute that to the public, but they could present it back to Sun, who would be free (and maybe even pleased?) to distribute it in binary form along with the rest of the binary distributions. That would constitute an improvement.


My understanding is that source and build process could be distributed. According to the JDL, we couldn't distribute the binaries for production/productive use without paying Sun royalities. Why couldn't we distribute with the disclaimer the binaries are for research use only and are not suitable for production/productive use? This *might* be a loophole we could use. Reading legal documents bore me to death so I may have misread something.

Also, Sun wouldn't want the task of dealing with a "dead" platform. They also wouldn't want to have to handle yet another platform since they have Windoze, Solaris, and Linux. That is why they, through licensing, allowed Innotek and GoldenCode to do 1.4.



All too easy perhaps. Whoever undertakes the project would need to check with Sun and see if that meets the conditions of the JRL.

And the JIUL and JDL....
Actually, I don't think the JIUL would be at issue. It's just that stupid JDL. Of course, if the funds are available to pay Sun the royalities on the JDL then the JDL would be a non-issue. For these companies, it's all about the $$$$. Pay GoldenCode enough, they'd be happy to do a native 1.5 and 1.6 port. There's just not interest from parties with the deep pockets.


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