OS2 World.Com Forum

Subject  :  WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  BigWarpGuy
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 19:28
"WAPE - OS/2 port of WINE

Text: New Slovakian web about WAPE project. WAPE is OS/2 port of WINE.

Url: http://www.tursoft.sk/index.php?a=cat.116

From: Andrej Gavac (andy@jabber.cz) "

Could this be a replacement for SDD?

Where is the site that translates web sites to another lanuage?


BigWarpGuy
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Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  zman zirkle@wizard.net
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 19:47
wine and odin are related not sdd to wine

babelfish does not translate slovakian


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  Sebadoh sys3175@optonline.net
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 19:49
This would be a replacement for ODIN not for SDD. It seems like they have gotten a lot of stuff working on it which odin didn't work with, it would be great if we could get the guy to contribute to ODIN instead of working from the ground up on his own. Also would be nice if we could get some English translations.


BigWarpGuy (19 Mar, 2007 19:2:
"WAPE - OS/2 port of WINE

Text: New Slovakian web about WAPE project. WAPE is OS/2 port of WINE.

Url: http://www.tursoft.sk/index.php?a=cat.116

From: Andrej Gavac (andy@jabber.cz) "

Could this be a replacement for SDD?

Where is the site that translates web sites to another lanuage?



Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  Michaelhz
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 20:22
So why any further development for odin? Its outdated and there were no serious enhancements for the last years. Recently someone mentioned that wine is more "complete".
Keeping the wine-port for os/2 in sync with original sources is by far more easy than reanimating odin. And its more efficient in terms of workload for our few remaining developers.

Best regards
Michael


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  cytan
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 21:24
I agree. It's much better to be able to port WINE to OS/2 than to do ODIN (although ODIN would've been fantastic) because of the support on other platforms.

If somebody can translate the WAPE webpage into English that will help immensely .

cytan


Michaelhz (19 Mar, 2007 20:22):
So why any further development for odin? Its outdated and there were no serious enhancements for the last years. Recently someone mentioned that wine is more "complete".
Keeping the wine-port for os/2 in sync with original sources is by far more easy than reanimating odin. And its more efficient in terms of workload for our few remaining developers.

Best regards
Michael



Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  zman zirkle@wizard.net
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 22:40
i think so too! odin conflicts with older innotek versions on my system. wine might work better with warpvision which is also a linux port and not conflict with the innotek stuff.

that said. even on linux it is only a half measure. its better to run windows itself on a new vm for os/2 with usb support. how is work on that virtual box solution going, hummm??? i'd like to see effort go there!

note: vista requires acpi or its loader halts with such a message. therefore, xp is the last windows i can run on virtual pc.


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  BigWarpGuy
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 00:08

zman (19 Mar, 2007 19:47):
wine and odin are related not sdd to wine

babelfish does not translate slovakian


Thank you for the clarification.

I tried Bablefish but it did not list that language.

---
BigWarpGuy
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Director of Communications
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Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  boldos boldos@boldos.info
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 01:15
This is a brief translation what Workib wants to tell everyone (only first two paragraphs - the rest later today):

WAPE is a project for those who need to run programs for Windows on a stable and secure platform at home and at work. That is 100% possible only on the eComstation platform.

programmer Jozef Bakos (workib)

Formerly this program was intended to be OPEN. Nevertheless, someone has patented OPEN SOURCE, so it is not possible to release it as OPEN SOURCE - it would need a lot of time and modifications. That is why it is hard to figure out the completion time of the project and it is certain that it WILL NOT BE OPEN.

Another problem is DirectX and hardware (graphics) acceleration for advanced gaming. This is a secondary issue right now, currently being resolved. First version of WAPE will certainly NOT include DirectX support. For the full DirectX support it will be necessary to copy the (original?) libraries manually.

You can find the original discussion (Czech&Slovak so far only) here:
http://www.os2.cz/ultraboard/read.php?1,3910,3910#msg-3910

Personal note:
I've been spending a couple of months supporting Workib, and it took >A LOT< of energy, time and persuasion to bring him to this point (and not to scrap everything). Bear also in mind that he is a Linux guy, not an OS/2 guy. I would strongly suggest to SUPPORT this effort of one single person who tries to contribute to the community instead of bitching and flaming about what we do/do not like/want/whatever. This is a one time opportunity for the whole platform so please do not drive it away. It is very difficult to predict how this will end up. Patience and hard work is required here! Consider yourselves warned.


Subject  :  Re:WAPE
Author  :  Blonde Guy
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 03:24
Thanks boldos.

Is this a port of WINE using GCC 3.3.5? This could be much better than ODIN, because OS/2 support for ports using GCC is still active, and because it could lead straight to support for running Windows programs under Voyager.

---
Expert Consulting for OS/2 and eComStation


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  abwillis abwillis1@gmail.com
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 05:18

zman (19 Mar, 2007 22:40):
i think so too! odin conflicts with older innotek versions on my system. wine might work better with warpvision which is also a linux port and not conflict with the innotek stuff.

that said. even on linux it is only a half measure. its better to run windows itself on a new vm for os/2 with usb support. how is work on that virtual box solution going, hummm??? i'd like to see effort go there!

note: vista requires acpi or its loader halts with such a message. therefore, xp is the last windows i can run on virtual pc.


Warpvision would have to be written to use WAPE as it currently makes its calls through Odin (for those codecs that require Odin).
I don't know if Vista will run under Virtual PC or not but I am using Virtual PC on eCS and have Windows XP running with ACPI support.
As to ther earlier questions of why not use Odin.. the advantage to using Odin would be to try to save time for those things already done. However, if the Odin code isn't known and the Wine code is then it probably wouldn't be a time saver. I might suggest looking at the kernel32 code from Odin as it may help the developler on OS/2.
Eventual directx support to play games would be nice.
Andy


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  cytan
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 15:15
Since I don't read Czech, so what is the current status? Are there binaries for us to alpha/beta test?

cytan


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  boldos boldos@boldos.info
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 16:13
Yes, there are binaries (the screenshots of Half Life 2 running under eComstation are taken using these binaries), but they are not publicly available right now.

This will be resolved in a near future.


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  Shai robin.haberkorn@googlemail.com
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 17:25
Yesterday, I asked a friend of mine who speaks Czech (which is very similar to Slovak) to summarize the first few paragraph's content. Besides what was already translated here, he told me that the author wants to sell copies as a product for the price of a computer game.
I don't really understand his attitude towards open source but nevertheless, an interesting project...

Robin


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  BigWarpGuy
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 17:38

Shai (20 Mar, 2007 17:25):
Yesterday, I asked a friend of mine who speaks Czech (which is very similar to Slovak) to summarize the first few paragraph's content. Besides what was already translated here, he told me that the author wants to sell copies as a product for the price of a computer game.
I don't really understand his attitude towards open source but nevertheless, an interesting project...

Robin


If it means being able to use Win programs in eCS, it could be worth the cost. It would also depend on the cost of the computer game too.

---
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Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 19:01
If this is a port of WINE, I do not understand how it can be sold without source being a derivative work of code published under LGPL. What am I missing?

Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  boldos boldos@boldos.info
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 19:16
Well, I guess that workib is afraid that "someone" could steal the technology - this is NOT ONLY the port of wine, there is much more. There is his own technology there as well and he does NOT want to put it into "someones" hands.

On one hand, I think that he is pushing the issue quite hard, on the other hand, compare Mac+Linux vs. Vista (and try to find at least 10 differences ).

Got the point?

Anyway, there is a slight chance (in my opinion) the issue could be discussed in the future...


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  cytan
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 19:56
To tell the truth, I don't really care how it's done but that it works and in the process workib makes $$$$ out of it. What I'm afraid of is that we don't want to pay for anything and this project will go the way of ODIN.

I hope that WAPE will be good enough to run the
one Win$ programme which I want and that is Mathematica.

cytan


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 21:10
I agree there is no point in debating whether Workib should or should not publish his own source code or charge money. That is his choice.

My question is with respect to the LGPL license. Any modification to WINE to make it work in OS/2 would have to have its source made available. As I understand, the LGPL would permit a closed-source work to statically link with the WINE binaries, but creating those binaries under OS/2 in the first place means modifying (or lifting) LGPL code, and the result of that cannot then be closed-source. The only logical alternative I see is that there are no modifications to the LGPL source, in which case no work is required to port WINE, so we could all do it and don't need WAPE, and that is highly improbable.

However I do not post this as an expert, which is why I ask the question. Maybe I am missing something about WINE, about LGPL, or about WAPE.


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  boldos boldos@boldos.info
Date  :  20 Mar, 2007 on 22:56
OK, here is the rest of that Czech/Slovak page. Sorry for any typos, some may be even intentional

The English version (this translations) should be available on the original webpage http://www.tursoft.sk/index.php?a=cat.116 in a couple of days. I hope that this will enlighten the situation around WAPE a bit more. Looking forward to your comments.

comments from the OS/2.cz (only that ones from workib)

31.10.2006
The bug list:
- WAPE windows are sometimes not displayed correctly,
- Windows applications are sometimes not displayed corretly,
- causes OS/2 hang-ups,
- DirectX sometimes works, sometimes doesn't,
- USB, LPT, COM, NIC not functioning.

I'm still willing to do the work on the project so far but even my patience has limits. It is very hard to do any work without [kernel] documentation. If anyone does not believe me [that WAPE is able to run HW accelerated 3D games on eComstation] I'm willing to record a video.

1.11.2006
Basically works in a way that when you type hl2.exe WAPE will run this hl2.exe but will provide Win DLLs to the app. Windows is designed in a very weird way, I haven't seen such sh*t yet and hope I never will again. I you run app, it goes through a TONS of DLLs that are absolutely not related to it and at the end will end up with kernel. Sometimes this repeats even 50x so you go nuts. The biggest phun is that some of their source codes have bug-checked its stack even 10 times at the same source code. I'd really like to know why it is checked that way.

Problems I have still to solve:
Complete absence of
[OS/2] graphics drivers that support DirectX. Even if there might exist such a thing [in OS/2 realm] it is usually totally unusable. The simplest solution is that when WAPE is running, it completely kills OS/2's graphics subsystem and in the used windows there is a dull explorer running. That is causing big problems because this will all go to hell at the point OS/2 will try to use the graphics subsystem again.

Because I cannot go around the [OS/2] kernel, I desided to use OS/2 [subsystems&APIs] as much as possible. I'm trying to use native OS/2 graphics drivers, but at that point WAPE has to use a two-way converter to be compatible with the underlaying system. Which is a big problem because I do not have a kernel documentation. So I have to literally "break down" the system to pieces to get the info I need. Because of this I'm re-installing the OS/2 approx. every other day.

1.11.2006
ODIN is not accelerated for sure, but I'm using a different approach as I wrote here. The simples way is that if WAPE is running it kills the OS/2's graphics subsystem and there is a dumb EXPLORER running the the active windows. That is problematic because when OS/2 tries to use it's graphics again, it all goes to hell.

1.11.2006
That means that in the created window or on the desktop there is a directX windows app running. It is almost as if there was a Windows running in that window.
[missing] Graphic cards drivers are a big problem.

2.11.2006
Yesterday I fixed a bug that caused a wrong window drawing. F*ck - I'm getting older and blind 'cause I had it directly under my nose . If I'm gonna make it and fix all the bugs (including that "go to hell" bug) WAPE could be ready for download in november
[2006].

6.11.2006
I would be really interested how many ppl would be willing to actively contribute to this OS/2 port? And I'd like to know if it really makes any sense to do the emulator and if it makes sense to put directx into it anyway? I don't want to scrap the project, but it is important what you
[OS/2ers] want, because it is you who will be using it, not me. I'm f*cking the microsoft and I don't intend to emulate windows.

14.11.2006
GNU/GPL is not protecting the programmer
[author] as it should. It serves only as a paperwork, nothing more.

20.11.2006
I'm afraid that it is imminent that I will abandon the project, because I was not able to fine-tune the WAPE build so it works correctly. Does any of you have any information that would help me - or does OS/2 have anything analogous to directx?
I do see only to possibilities right now:
1) the directx support altogether with hardware acceleration will be removed completely,
2) I will have to create a special version of kernel
Do you want HW accelerated graphics with directx?

26.11.2006
The WAPE is almost complete, fixing some last bugs. It will be directly integrated into OS/2 and it is probable someone
[from OS/2 community] will not like it.

2.12.2006
I did not try
[running win] programs but [I am certain] they will work. It is not necessary to have Windows installed. But I'm not sure if WAPE will be an option [for OS/2 community] because of the OS/2 community conservatism. [WAPE] Will fundamentally modify the whole OS/2.

5.12.2006
well, it will be rather my version of OS/2 LOL. Ok, that was a bad joke - it will just remain OS/2.

20.2.2007
WAPE is complete, have to solve the issue where to upload it

22.2.2007
Unfortunately mr. gates has long fingers everywhere and a lot of money. I was refused the ftp access and it was even poited out that I may be violating some licenses. So what remains? The only thing - removing all of the questionable things, thus removing the HW acceleration and win drivers support. Could someone enlighten me on how to get through the licensing problems?

22.2.2007
The directX just cannot stay there.

- the lawier consultation brought some new knoledge

28.2.2007
So we got through the license and it is clear that two questionable things still have to be removed. I fixed the first problem but the second one, memory allocation, is patented by some di*k, so free software (open source) is no longer free.

- directx problem is temporarily solved - individuall DLLs have to be copied manually [from Win]
- just working on HW
[graphics] acceleration - a long run issue


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  mobybrick
Date  :  21 Mar, 2007 on 01:46
This looks *very* exciting, and the developer needs our support. I personally do not mind paying to buy his software.

Looking at some of the issues he has been contending with, does he know of DIVE, EnDIVE and DART? I don't know even if GCC has the headers for this, but it would not be too much work to add them.

DIVE is the direct OS/2 equivalent of WinG/DirectX and provides similar performance, but I don't know how under-the-bonnet similar they are. But it would certainly be far faster than using GPI (OS/2's equivalent of Winblows GDI).

Maybe someone with an OS.CZ account could offer assistance. Also, I found a link on-line to the DIVE docs:

http://www.warpspeed.com.au/cgi-bin/inf2html.cmd?..\html\book\ddk\PDRREF.INF+59

If Jozef Bakos happens to read this, then please be assured that you have my support - please contact me at mobybrick at hotmail dot com if I can help. I'm not a great programmer, but maybe there are other things the OS/2 community can do to help.

Regards,
Moby.


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  Doodle
Date  :  21 Mar, 2007 on 09:47
Someone should tell Jozef to check the #netlabs IRC channel on irc.netlabs.org. There are usually a lot of clever people at there, and most of them would be happy to help him to solve his OS/2 programming problems.

Doodle


Subject  :  Wape and Odin
Author  :  cbo
Date  :  21 Mar, 2007 on 11:28
Having been involved in Odin development only a very, very little little bit (fixed one little bug), I am NOT as enthusiastic as you all seem to be! But of course I would be happy to be proven wrong...

I read that the author claims to be "almost ready" with his port - and then he enumerates the hardest possible obstacles that are still to be overcome. So my conclusion is: Odin is "much more almost ready" than Wape actually!

The main difference is probably: Odin has been tried by many of you, and you have seen the problems with all but very "well behaving" Windows programs (not using DirectX, hardware accelerated video, communication with devices not supported on OS/2 etc.). But then I read that Wape takes over more or less the whole graphics subsystem, making all other OS/2 apps that would run beside it kill the display - hmm, this sounds like some very "brute force" attacks and I doubt that this "very little step" to make everything run smoothly is really so little...

First of all: What do most people want to run with Odin? Of course the things they would currently do with Windows probably because it doesn't work with OS/2! And what is that?

- Some multimedia and gaming applications

- Running or communicating with devices that are not supported with OS/2

- "Mammouth" applications like specific office suites and the like

And it's mainly with *THESE* that Odin is not a solution for the time being! But it's exactly the same things that are still open in Wape, as far as I understand the translated explanations. (Just imagine: implementing DirectX support!! This would have to kill and fully reimplement the whole OS/2 graphics subsystem - and as far as I understand it the author really started to do that...)

So would Odin be the "better solution" anyway? I'm not really sure, because BOTH Wape and Odin development suffers from the same disease: too few developer ressources to make a chance against the constantly evolving Windows functionality (which is not only Windows, but also complete subsystems like the IE, the MS installer, DirectX etc., which are needed to make more complex functions run).

- Wape: Only ONE single developer, and no chance to ever get anybody else engaged because the whole thing is going to be "closed source" (however he wants to get around the LGPL of Wine!??). And once the workload of fixing the "very very last bugs" (which will certainly be there, and be MANY and COMPLICATED!!), that one developer will almost certainly get struck - at least I am very much afraid he will -, with nobody being able to take over.

- Odin: Open source (so everybody could contribute in principle), but extremely complicated development setup with tools that are not "officially" available any more, partially redundant and very complicated system of many, many makefiles that is not so easy to understand, which inhibits any interested developers to really do anything. But this obstacle COULD be overcome if somebody really finds some time for it!

For me Odin is still the "favorite", simply because it is Open Source and with that it is always possible to do a next step, although even small ones need lots of work (but in that respect Odin is clearly much further than Wape: "we" already see the painful "last steps" before us, while the Wape developer sounds like he doesn't even realize they will be there...). But I see Odin mainly as a tool for "relatively small", and mainly for "well behaving" applications.

For the kind of applications many people seem to dream of running with Wape, I would much more see a virtualizer solution! The disadvantage is the much larger demand for ressources, and the necessity for a Windows license, but while this is not worth the effort for "smaller" things, it might well be for the "larger" ones!

And don't forget: Keeping a virtualizer up to date is probably much less of a moving target as keeping up with all the ever changing and growing Windows functionality that would need to be rebuilt with a system like Wape and Odin! A virtualizer would only need an updated Windows release.

Of course M$ will not make life easy for virtualizers, because that is probably a much bigger threat for their monopoly than any "alternative OS" so far: It lets people switch to somewhere else, without that step being a 100% "yes or no" question! But we would be in the same boat with others who want to make it possible, so there might be a chance...

Bottom line: As much as I would also *LIKE* to believe in a solution like Wape to run "just any Windows application" on my OS/2 system, I cannot believe it yet, and first of all: I do NOT believe that the author is really as close to such a system as he claims - where my disbelief comes mainly from his own descriptions!


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  boldos boldos@boldos.info
Date  :  21 Mar, 2007 on 12:14
Well, workib just promised that it will be open sourced one day...

There have to be one (rather big and important) modification done. When this is complete, it will all go open source. Workib just said it will take several weeks.


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  Christian Hennecke
Date  :  21 Mar, 2007 on 15:19
I really don't understand this "killing the OS/2 graphics subsystem" talk. He should be able to do this like XFree86/OS2, which does coexist quite peacefully with PM.

Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  USBGuy usbguy@netlabs.org
Date  :  21 Mar, 2007 on 16:41
Well I think he kinda loads the original Windows driver.
Not sure if he uses the FSDive interface to unload/reload PM (gre_death calls) so the windows driver can takeover the HW.
But I guess if you kill/end his app the HW is in an unknown state so a gre-call to end FS could crash the system.

But as far as for ODIN vs WAPE. ODIN uses WINE code in many places, but as at of the time when ODIN was created there was no recent GCC so syncing the code between ODINand WINE needed rewriting many parts as the macros didn't work (like for COM) with ICC.

But with a modified build system one could keep odin more in sync with WINE by using GCC for all higher level DLLs (Comon Dialogs etc.) and
use ICC only for those DLLs where compiling them with GCC is to much work. But never the less try to rewrite/rework them so that in the end all of ODIN can be compiled with GCC.

As for WAPE If he realy get real Windows driver loading, it would be interesting to extract what is needed for this and try to build a GRADD wrapper around this so that OS/2 could use the windows driver. Via a GRADD extension ODIN could access the directx interface to get HW 3D.


Subject  :  Sessions
Author  :  Cornelis Bockemühl
Date  :  21 Mar, 2007 on 16:54
Sure: with OS/2, Wape could open another "session", which would actually make it independent of the whole PM graphics system! This was also my first thought when reading the translated descriptions, because from there I am getting the impression that Wape works rather with all kinds of "hacks" than doing that, at least so far. This could indeed solve the graphics problems, probably.

But my points making me pessimistic are rather:

- Experience within every larger software project (and this definitely IS a larger project!) shows that the way from "something running quite nicely already" to a finished product tends to be VERY FAR! (That's the main reason why you see so much software versions 0.9xxx in the free software world.)

- I am sure that the real problems of "porting Wine" will be more or less the same than the ones Odin faces already for quite some time - so why should a new project get there more easily than so many knowledgeable people that have worked for the Odin project already? Don't forget that Odin already contains lots of Wine code.

What gives me still some optimism at least:

- If the project would become open source anyway, there is much more of a chance that the single developer could get assistance or even somebody to take over if ever he would loose his patience with the project

- Getting rid of all the over-complicated old stuff in the Odin development system could be a chance as well for advancing faster

We will see - and be happy and grateful for whatever comes out of the one or other project!


Subject  :  Re:Sessions
Author  :  Sebadoh sys3175@optonline.net
Date  :  22 Mar, 2007 on 03:03
Exactly.. for all intents and purposes ODIN is WINE. (for OS/2). Most of the win32 support (except for bits of open32 stuff) are from wine, it has a binary loader so we can actually load applications.. and some helpers to make the lower level stuff sorta work. So, back to my point.. wouldn't make more sense to try and clean up the odin build process and try to get this guy in on the odin game. Perhaps with the assistance of the other developers who have worked (and somewhat abandoned odin) he could gain perspective on what is possible, and may even have something to contribute back to odin. Again, why try to rebuild the wheel when really all it needs is a bit of polishing. And, for people who are having trouble with odin, there are ways around almost all the problems (except for those which it cannot run certain apps at all). I have never had any problems with it interfering with Innotek applications, as long as the system was configured properly. (infact, innotek's runtime is just a custom build of odin anyway)


Cornelis Bockemühl (21 Mar, 2007 16:54):
Sure: with OS/2, Wape could open another "session", which would actually make it independent of the whole PM graphics system! This was also my first thought when reading the translated descriptions, because from there I am getting the impression that Wape works rather with all kinds of "hacks" than doing that, at least so far. This could indeed solve the graphics problems, probably.

But my points making me pessimistic are rather:

- Experience within every larger software project (and this definitely IS a larger project!) shows that the way from "something running quite nicely already" to a finished product tends to be VERY FAR! (That's the main reason why you see so much software versions 0.9xxx in the free software world.)

- I am sure that the real problems of "porting Wine" will be more or less the same than the ones Odin faces already for quite some time - so why should a new project get there more easily than so many knowledgeable people that have worked for the Odin project already? Don't forget that Odin already contains lots of Wine code.

What gives me still some optimism at least:

- If the project would become open source anyway, there is much more of a chance that the single developer could get assistance or even somebody to take over if ever he would loose his patience with the project

- Getting rid of all the over-complicated old stuff in the Odin development system could be a chance as well for advancing faster

We will see - and be happy and grateful for whatever comes out of the one or other project!



Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  The Warper
Date  :  22 Mar, 2007 on 11:16
Well, this is just a remark, but... did you carefully look at the WAPE screenshots provided on the Czech forum? I mean, look at the eComCenter: you'll find that the bar is actually displaying the same info (except for the "Wape Desktop" title or whatever it is). The activitity percentage is always 10.0%, and - this is odd - the time displayed is the same! Please, take this as an input for your reflections, 'cause I really don't know anything about WAPE more than I read on this forum, but this circumstance, I think, should need some explanation. As for now, I can think of two possibilities:
1) the screeshots are fake ones;
2) the eComCenter is locked (and stuck with the same info displayed).
Everyone can have his own idea, of course, but as for the first possibility, I'd also invite you to take note of these other elements:
a) in the screenshot with the game (ukazka.jpg), if you look at the eComCenter you'll be probably able to see that the baseline of the "Wape Dekstop" etc. "title" doesn't correctly match the baseline of the bar;
b) in the screenshot displaying "WAPE notebook properties", you can see at the top of the window square, just above the title-line, some strange graphical artifacts; the same goes for the frame line inside the properties window.
I think this should be explained by someone (possibly the author), or anyone can judge by himself.
Please take this as a constructive post (I'd be VERY happy if something like WAPE was available for our platform!). I don't want by no means start a (virtual) fight with anyone!

Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  22 Mar, 2007 on 17:08
Interesting observations. It is curious that the CPU usage is near zero while a graphics-intensive game is playing. It is of course possible the eCenter has frozen.

Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  22 Mar, 2007 on 17:14
People used to put out fake screenshots of Win32 on OS/2 all the time 10 years ago, before there was Odin. Became a regular game spotting the flaws.

Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  boldos boldos@boldos.info
Date  :  22 Mar, 2007 on 17:18
Well, due to incompatibility issues the eCenter WAS frozen. That is why it looks "the same" on both pictures. Anyway, Workib promised to create a video, so you have something to believe to.

2 Sebadoh & others:
Of course you're right, from one point of view it makes really no sense to reinvent the wheel. On the other hand, some programmers just like to do things on their own (trust me, I know what I'm talking about, I'm "cursed" by this too ) and sometimes it is even necessary to reinvent the wheel in a different way. I'm in contact with Workib daily and I know more about the project, so believe me, in this case it IS necessary to rework the whole stuff. Of course, I will not say more about WAPE - I do not want to scare you .


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  BigWarpGuy
Date  :  22 Mar, 2007 on 19:58
I look forward to seeing the video.

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Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  RobertM
Date  :  22 Mar, 2007 on 21:34

obiwan (22 Mar, 2007 17:14):
People used to put out fake screenshots of Win32 on OS/2 all the time 10 years ago, before there was Odin. Became a regular game spotting the flaws.

Well, there was also a rumor that IBM had actually completed but not released a Win32 subsystem that would run Win9x apps, and was based off DAPIE - with screen shots from the internal IBM tests... I even had people at IBM who had confirmed that.... never saw it, so who knows...


Subject  :  Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  23 Mar, 2007 on 21:12
Erased this post. Wrong forum.

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