OS2 World.Com Forum

Subject  :  Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  Terry tgindy@yahoo.com
Date  :  01 Nov, 2006 on 17:06
I am about to graduate from an eCS 1.0 install on a solo computer.

Hard drives have been collected and I am about to install my first dual boot with OS/2 & windows kernels since the days of a 2 gig partitioned hard drive with OS/2 2.1 and Windows 95.

The eCS IDE Channel => eComStation 1.2R (and the soon eCS 2.0) will be HPFS-installed on a 60 gig hard drive (as primary) with a 200 gig hard drive (as secondary). Thus, the eCS install can be within a primary partition on the 60 gig without a logical partition. The 200 gig hard drive provides the expansion flexibility for SVista, multimedia, etc.

The WinXP IDE Channel => An operational Win XP is on a partitioned FAT 32 hard drive (for eCS file access) with 160 gigs (as primary). WinXP is a "necessary occupational evil" due to financial planning software apps.

Question #1: What bootloader tips are appropriate?

Question #2: What dual-booting tricks would you offer?

Question #3: Does it matter whether WinXP is on IDE1 or IDE2?

Question #4: Will there be any LVM problems to recognize the WinXP hard drive?

In-depth dual-booting really hasn't been addressed here for some time, and should be useful for many eComStation users.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  flywheel flywheel@worldonline.dk
Date  :  01 Nov, 2006 on 19:17
Personally I use Air-boot, it is a nice and easy ti use platforms neutral bootmanager that installs in the MBR.

AFAIR XP still needs a primary partition and it is smart to install XP as the first OS - otherwise the socalled intelligent installer of XP might mess things up a bit, but thats it.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  tex
Date  :  01 Nov, 2006 on 19:46
I agree with the above. However, I usually install eCS on an extended logical partition. I have seen it mentioned in the newsgroups that more than one primary paritition can confuse WinXP.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  22 Feb, 2007 on 12:13
Hello:
I have a similar question.
I want to install eCs 1.2R and WindowsXP in the same hard disk.
I tried two ways and both give problems.

1º Install eCs first, and then, WindowsXP. When eCs install is finished, I mark as startable (with LVM) an empty primary partition to install WinXP there. Then, I begin Windows install with no problem but, at the first re-initialization in the Windows install process, Windows doesen't boot, and does not continue with the installation process. The only solution is to create a new partition with the Windows installation tool, so Windows overwrites boot sectors or mbr. Then, it boots and installs properly. But from then, LVM detects an error that prevents it to make any modification, although boot manager works properly.

2º Install WindowsXP first, then eCs. This way, Windows installs with no problems, but eCs doesn't install, because I must mark a partition installable, but LVM detects the same error as above that prevents it to make any modification, and no partition can be marked as installable.

Is there a way to install both operating systems without getting the error from LVM?.

Antonio Serrano
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  Radek hajek@vuv.cz
Date  :  22 Feb, 2007 on 13:22
I haven't installed eCS and XP on the same machine but I have some experience with eCS and Neanderthal Technology I can recommend the following:

1. Try the OS/2 boot manager which comes with the eCS.
2. Start eCS installation and create a *single* partition for the XP using the OS/2 FDISK. You can mark it installable and startable so that FDISK will not complain.Quit the installation. The rest of your HD will be free.
3. Install XP on the partition prepared in (2). This way, winblows will have no chance to clobber other partitions because there are no other partitions on the disk.
4. Install eCS: Install boot manager, create eCS partition, mark both the XP and eCS partitions bootable.

This will pass in the case, for example, winblows 2000 and eCS. Whether you will pass with XP and eCS I don't know.

As far as the fatal errors reported from the LVM are considered, I have seen that, too, when I tried to install wlnblows NT and eCS on the same disk and allowed the winblows to create its partition itself.
Most likely, winblows foul the mbr to such extent that the LVM refuses having anything common with such disk. I had to return to DOS 5 FDISK for deleting the winblows partition from the disk and persuade LVM to look at the disk again. Nothing else succeeded


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  BigWarpGuy
Date  :  22 Feb, 2007 on 15:12
I assume it would be the same if one is dual booting eComStation and ReactOS?

---
BigWarpGuy
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
OS/2-eCS.org
Director of Communications
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
supporting the past OS/2 user and the future eCS user
http://www.os2ecs.org

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  22 Feb, 2007 on 15:34
Is there a way to install eCs once windowsXP is installled?. I don't want to have to delete the windows partition and reinstall everything again. Or, Is there a free and reliable way to backup the whole windowsXP system (OS+programs+data) and restore it?. Could be useful the linux "tar" command?, How would be it used?.
Thank you for your interest.

Antonio Serrano
Greetings form Málaga, Spain.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  Radek hajek@vuv.cz
Date  :  22 Feb, 2007 on 17:11
If you are getting the fatal errors from LVM then I doubt you will be successful LVM will not allow you to operate your HD so that you cannot create a partition for the eCS. Even if you succeed with smuggling eCS on your HD somehow, the system will be unstable because the HD isn't acceptable for it.

Perhaps, dfsee could help somehow - by making the XP partition more acceptable for the LVM, at least temporarily, during the eCS installation.
It would have to be winblows dfsee. I have no experience with such manipulations so that I cannot help more

I think the simplest way woud be starting from sctatch


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  warpcafe warpcafe@yahoo.de
Date  :  22 Feb, 2007 on 17:24
Hi all,

from my personal experience, it might be a different approach depending on whether XP and eCS share the same physical device or not - but basically, it all boils down to having AiR-Boot!

FWIW - what I do is:
Install windows first from scratch, leaving enough space for eCS drives. Once windows is running, I'll be installing eCS.

Here, I use a small primary partition for the OS.
To get rid of the LMV error in that situation (XP already installed) I recommend...:

http://www.ecomstation.com/edp/mod.php?mod=faq&op=show_answer&faq_id=524

What usually happens at that point is that XP isn't visible anymore and only eCS is starting - OK, there's no boot manager... maybe YMMV and there's different problems - who cares? Because: Now it's time for AiR-Boot!

Within AiR-Boot (installed as last step from within eCS either installed and up running or from bootable CD) I make sure that neither eCS can see XP nor vice versa - at least in matters of their corresponding primary partitions.
If ever they need to share data, they'll have a network drive assigned for that either by means of a real fileserver or a NAS device or thumb drives or -sigh- a FAT32 partition (or even Fat16) on a local disk which they can access.

I know it might not cover all possible combinations but I HTH to some extent at least...

If someone wants to know the detailed settings of my AiR-Boot setup, he/she will have to wait until I get back home...

I have seen lots of bootmanagers during the last decade and to me, there is nothing as good as AiR-boot (at least for my needs). It's neat, slim, snappy and easy to understand. I must admit that I don't have any Linux installed as bootable OS via AiR-Boot... so from that perspective, I can't tell whether it STILL is that perfect then... but I would be more than surprised if there were any issues.

Greetings
Thomas


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  warpcafe warpcafe@yahoo.de
Date  :  22 Feb, 2007 on 17:31
Hola Antonio,


aasdelat (22 Feb, 2007 16:36):
Is there a way to install eCs once windowsXP is installled?. I don't want to have to delete the windows partition and reinstall everything again. Or, Is there a free and reliable way to backup the whole windowsXP system (OS+programs+data) and restore it?. Could be useful the linux "tar" command?, How would be it used?.
Thank you for your interest.

Antonio Serrano
Greetings form Málaga, Spain.


...as for your problems with LVM in your previous post - please note my above message with the link to the eCS forum.

HTH, saludos,
Thomas


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  22 Feb, 2007 on 23:14
Thank you very very very much. This will help me a lot. I will do everything you tell me and, then, I'll tell you the results.

Antonio Serrano
Málaga, Spain.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  DavidG
Date  :  23 Feb, 2007 on 07:10

aasdelat (22 Feb, 2007 16:36):
Is there a way to install eCs once windowsXP is installled?. I don't want to have to delete the windows partition and reinstall everything again. Or, Is there a free and reliable way to backup the whole windowsXP system (OS+programs+data) and restore it?. Could be useful the linux "tar" command?, How would be it used?.
Thank you for your interest.

Antonio Serrano
Greetings form Málaga, Spain.


I use a program called Partition Commander. You boot from its CDROM, shrink the WInXP partition, and can be used to create more partitions for eCS and Windows to share data. I have use it with two different laptops and had no problem with the parititions. However, on the first, I had to make eCS a logical partition before the install would complete. As a result, I always install eCS to a logical partition without problems.

David


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  23 Feb, 2007 on 08:38
Thank you you too.

Antonio Serrano.
Málaga, España.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  El Vato
Date  :  24 Feb, 2007 on 00:38

Terry (01 Nov, 2006 17:06):

[...]
The eCS IDE Channel => eComStation 1.2R (and the soon eCS 2.0)
will be HPFS-installed on a 60 gig hard drive (as primary) with a
200 gig hard drive (as secondary). Thus, the eCS install can be
within a primary partition on the 60 gig without a logical
partition. The 200 gig hard drive provides the expansion
flexibility for SVista, multimedia, etc.

The WinXP IDE Channel => An operational Win XP is on a
partitioned FAT 32 hard drive (for eCS file access) with 160 gigs
(as primary). WinXP is a "necessary occupational evil" due to
financial planning software apps.


You will avoid much frustration if you, as an instance, allocate
your first hard disk to WinXX primary partitions and (possibly)
LVM-enabled Boot Manager (BM); instead of allocating your second
IDE hard disk (whatever size it may be) to WinXX. OS/2 (and
Linux) will live "happy" on logical partitions.

Consequently, below is a suggestion that leaves the primary IDE
for your WinXX version(s) (and possibly Vista):

After you connect your hard disks, boot with your bootable media
to the LVM utility. You can do so by booting to a command prompt
and proceed to type F3. As mentioned to OriAl (<
http://www.os2world.com/cgi-bin/ultraboard/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=61&TID=1712&P=1#ID1712 >), depending on where your manual LVM
files are located in your eCS bootable media, change directory to
that location and enter:

LVM.EXE /SI:FS/SIZE:120

Once inside of the LVM utility, observe the label at the top:

1) Logical Volume management Tool -Logical View

If your IDE (and or SCSI) hard disks have not been exposed to
LVM-enabled BM, you will simply see temporary placeholders for
removable media devices.

Pressing F5, you will be taken to the physical view of your
hardware. Note the emphasis label at the top:

2) Logical Volume management Tool -Physical View

Pressing TAB, a user will be taken to create an
3)
primary and/or logical partition.

It must be noted that when creating a Primary partition, the
default action is to allocate space from the beginning of the
first free space encountered; notwithstanding, when creating a
Logical partition, the default is to allocate from the end of the
free hard disk space. Consequently, if an user is to have more
control over the partitioning scheme, the physical view is the
way to go. Later the partitions can be assigned to a Logical
Volume as we will be doing.

4) Hence a Primary partition is selected

5)
...to be created at the beginning of the free space

6)
The partition is labeled and a
size for the primary partition is entered if
desired
.

7) And we are done with the
first partition
Note that since the physical partition has not been assigned to an LVM entity it is "Available."


The same procedure is applied
to the remaining section of the hard disk

9)
Hence the physical aspect
for the first hard disk entity is done
Reiterating, both primary partitions are "Available" because they have not been assigned to an LVM entity.

10) Now, pressing F5 again, we are returned to the logical
view --Boot Manager needs to be installed if not already
done
-- and it can be seen that we still need to
assign the primary partitions we created to the Logical Volume
Manager. This situation is analogous to that where there were
previous partitions in the hard disk and we needed to have LVM
"see" those.

11)
Noting that BM intrinsic properties
guide it to be installed on the first free space it encounters,
it installs itself at the beginning of the second IDE hard
disk
since ALL of the first IDE hard disk is taken. The assertion can be verified by pressing F5 again to return to the Physical View and proceeding to select D1, i.e., the second IDE hard disk.

12)
We press F5 again and
proceed to assign the first primary partition to an LVM
entity

13)
The LVM entity has to be
Bootable, a drive letter is assigned to it, and also a
label

14)
The utility prompts us
for the physical hard disk unit to be selected
.


15)
Needless to say, we
select D0, since there is the first (or existing) primary
partition that we want to add
.

16)
Since we are selecting
an existing partition we simply verify that the default
information is correct
.


Terry (01 Nov, 2006 17:06):
Question #1: What bootloader tips are appropriate?

Leverage the intrinsic qualities of each operating system you
may already have and/or will be installing.

As mentioned previously, WinXX can best be accommodated in
primary partitions -as Tex an Flywheel asserted. Consequently,
if you will be installing Vista later, allocate with your OS/2
LVM utility two primary Volumes in your first hard disk for those
--either the 60Gb or the 200Gb.

Leaving those two predatory operating systems in your first hard
disk will avoid you potential headaches later as you require more
flexibility.

Note that the flexibility provided by the OS/2 LVM-enabled Boot
Manager can allow you mostly any combination but consider
candidly your technical proficiency. By reading some replies, it
appears to me that not many people appreciate the power of the
OS/2 LVM-enabled Boot Manager.

Consequently, and placing emphasis on the intrinsic qualities of
the OS/2, think about placing it in a logical partition on your
secondary IDE attached hard disk. From there you can manage all
your first IDE primary partitions and allocate space for their
needs using LVM from within OS/2.

For instance, (unless you were
JoannaRutkowska, of course) due to the tendency for
infection/corruption of the MS offerings, from your OS/2 second
IDE hard disk you might recover when WinXX/Vista go down with
viruses/rootkits/hijackings and/or, of course,
Joanna's anticipated Blue Pill attacks.


Terry (01 Nov, 2006 17:06):
Question #2: What dual-booting tricks would you offer?

You may install OS/2's LVM-enabled Boot manager at the start of
your first hard disk. It may be installed at the end of your
first hard disk or at the beginning of your second hard disk.
Notwithstanding, consider seriously your technical abilities and
--to make your future manipulations easier-- put it at the
beginning of your first hard disk.

If you already have a WinXX partition covering the start of your
hard disk you might consider installing BM on the second hard
disk or even at the end of your first hard disk.

Leveraging the OS/2 LVM-enabled Boot Manger intrinsic tendency to
install itself on the first free space it encounters, you might
"trick it" to install on the second hard disk if you first create
(even if temporarily) a partition(s) covering your whole first
hard disk.


Terry (01 Nov, 2006 17:06):
Question #3: Does it matter whether WinXP is on IDE1 or IDE2?

As mentioned previously by several people, you will make your
life easier if you install it on the first hard disk on a primary
partition.


Terry (01 Nov, 2006 17:06):
Question #4: Will there be any LVM problems to recognize the
WinXP hard drive?

If your WinXX is an already existent entity in your hard disk you
may add it to LVM-enabled BM by the procedure stated throughout
this post. And it will boot from your BM.

If you will be installing your WinXX AFTER you have installed
your OS/2, you need to make some changes to the WinXX hidden
file BOOT.INI

As some people noted in this thread, even if you allocate the
WinXX primary partition from your LVM utility, on the reboot for
the second phase of the WinXX installation the WinXX install
utility will sometimes/often refuse to proceed.

This is one of the reasons that even if a user is to have an NTFS
WinXX in a multiboot environment, s/he needs to format in FAT32
initially, so as to have easier access to modifying the file
BOOT.INI in the root directory of their WinXX drive.

Opening that file in a text editor on the first phase of the
WinXX installation, you will see something like:

---------------------------------------------------------

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="MicrosoftWindowsXPProfessional"/fastdetect/NoExecute=OptIn

----------------------------------------------------------

Note especially the timeout= directive and if needed increase the
time in seconds to allow you to select which partition to boot
upon your second phase of the WinXX installation.

Additionally, note the partition(1) under [operating systems]

It is often the case that on the WinXX reboot to proceed to the
second phase of installation, Boot Manager will be assigned that
partition(1) and WinXX partition will become partition(2).
Consequently, an user will not be able to continue the second
phase of the WinXX installation.

A workaround is to modify the BOOT.INI file BY ADDING that second
partition after the initial partition(1) as follows:

--------------------------------------------------------------

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="MicrosoftWindowsXPProfessional"/fastdetect/NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="MicrosoftWindowsXPProfessional"/fastdetect/NoExecute=OptIn


---------------------------------------------------------------

With this change, an user will be able to continue her/his WinXX
second phase installation by selecting from her/his ensuing WinXX
menu partition(2) --of course, after OS/2's BM. Note that after
the WinXX installation is complete, the user simply edits the
WinXX BOOT.INI file to reflect the partition where WinXX is
residing.



A word of warning: Often (if not always) on the initial reboot after your WinXX has completed its installation onto your hard disk --yes, even if you allocated its primary partition with LVM-enabled OS/2 Boot Manager-- OS/2's Boot manager will not be there upon rebooting your machine; you will see that WinXX will restart into its partition but BM will be nowhere to be seen.

In that case, all that needs to be done is reboot with the OS/2 bootable media again, enter into the LVM utility once again (as explained priorly) and --note carefully:

A1) Remove the Boot Manager, press F3 and save your changes.

A2) Reboot once again with your OS/2 bootable media and into your LVM utility and reinstal your BM. Note that you may need to add once again your bootable physical partition to an LVM entity from the logical view of the LVM utility (as shown on #12 and #13 above).


Possible shortcut to A1 & A2 above:

Often the rebooting procedure is not a necessary condition to bring back your OS/2 BM to manage your hard disk.

It is sufficient to redefine A1 above as follows:

Remove the OS/2 Boot Manager and immediately proceed to Reinstal it.

Subsequently press F3 and reboot your system. Quite possibly your BM will appear showing the menu of bootable LVM entities...and you are done!

On the other hand, if WinXX starts up instead of OS/2's BM then go back and implement the full procedure stated in the section "A word of warning."

Needless to say, the short cut to the A1 & A2 mentioned above will avoid you the extra step of assigning once again your bootable partitions to LVM units. Moreover, it saves one the trouble of reassigning to LVM units even those non-bootable Compatibiliy (read FAT, FAT32, NTFS, etc.) and JFS volumes.

On the last note, I feel the need to point out that without LVM assigned units modern OS/2 can not "see" them and LVM-enabled Boot Manager can not boot them; the physical partions may exist but to be "seen" those have to be assigned to logical LVM units.


Consequently, there is no need to use any other hard disk
utilities and/or replace the LVM-enabled Boot Manager.

Well, evidently this suggestion also is possible in an non-
virtual setting where instead of 16Gb there is a 28Gb in the second IDE; and where instead of 200Gb there is 114Gb in the first IDE:
.
SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop boots from the very end of
the 114Gb Logical partition
.

And Debian from the third partition from the end of the
114GB hard disk


Terry (01 Nov, 2006 17:06):
In-depth dual-booting really hasn't been addressed here for some
time, and should be useful for many eComStation users.

What arguments are to be thrown against LVM-enabled Boot Manager

I can simply say that Boot Manager rocks !!!


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  24 Feb, 2007 on 09:48
Super!!.
I prefer to use BM, but I thought it was not possible because of the problems I reported.
I can now use it thanks to you.
But you perhaps can help me in a new question. I see that it is possible to install eCs and BM before WinXP and use BM forever. But, what about if I have WinXP already installled (primary partition, beggining of the disk), and want to install eCs and BM now?. I remember you that LVM complains because of the changings made by Windows in boot sector or mbr.
Can I reverse boot record or mbr in a state like before Windows touchs it?.
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  Terry tgindy@yahoo.com
Date  :  24 Feb, 2007 on 16:55
Excellent feedback from the original questions and the new questions!

I'm reminded of "The A Team" at the end of the episode when a cigar was lit up: "Don't you just love it when the plan comes together?"


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  24 Feb, 2007 on 18:37
I agree.

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  El Vato
Date  :  24 Feb, 2007 on 22:05

aasdelat (24 Feb, 2007 15:1:
Super!!.
[...]
I remember you that LVM complains because of the changings made by Windows in boot sector or mbr.
Can I reverse boot record or mbr in a state like before Windows touchs it?.

You need to remove the WinXX modifications to the MBR of your hard disk and reinstall you BM as stated in my prior post section labeled: "A word of caution."

Obviously you can not undo the WinXX MBR modifications from within the OS/2 LVM utility since it is already complainig about a partitioning error.

From within your WinXX (since I assume you can boot into it) make a rescue bootable floppy. Alternatively, you may use a Win9X bootable installation disk for the procedure; or if not possible, you may even try a DOS bootable diskette.

Once you have your bootable diskette media ready, insert it into your floppy device and reboot your machine if necessary. Once the floppy media takes you into a command prompt, remove the MBR of your hard disk as follows:

FDISK /MBR

and your Master Boot Record is erased.

Proceed to reinstall your OS/2 BM as elaborated priorly.

Cheers !


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  08 Mar, 2007 on 10:34


Once you have your bootable diskette media ready, insert it into your floppy device and reboot your machine if necessary. Once the floppy media takes you into a command prompt, remove the MBR of your hard disk as follows:

FDISK /MBR

and your Master Boot Record is erased.


I made this with Dos and Win95 boot floppy disk, but with no result: BM still complains.
I thought that the reason is that they don't recognice my 80 Gb hard disk, so, I booted with eCs 1.2R and executed fdisk/mbr from an old OS/2 version (3.0), but this fdisk does not have the option /mbr.
So I did the following:

1º- Backup the entire WinXP system with "Drive image XML" (http://www.runtime.org/index.html) from a WinXP bootable CD made with Bart PE (http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/). The backup was stored in an external USB hard disk.

2º- Delete all partitions in the hard disk. When I did this with diskpart from the installation WindowsXP CD, I still get complaints from BM. So, I erased all partitions with "qtpared" from a bootable linux CD (I used guadalinex distribution, based on debian). This time I got no new complains from BM and since then, I only use BM to touch partitions.

3º- Create partition for windows with BM (must be greater or equal than the original that was backed up to restore it with "Dive Image XML").

4º- Restore the WinXP backup with the WinXP bootable CD.

5º- At this point, I got wat you said: WindowsXP doesn't boot because the partition it is installed on is assigned "2", and originally, it was "1". So I edited Boot.ini and changed "1" to "2". I can do this on a NTFS file system using the WinXP bootable CD.

And that's all (by now). I still have to install OS/2 and linux, but with BM not complainig any more, this will be very easy.

P.D.: There is an article in EDM2 about dual booting with OS2 and Windows Vista. I think all the things said in this thread should be ordered and put there. If nobody wants to do so, I can do it, but it is advisable that those that knows more of the subject, can correct at least what I put, for which it will be necessary to register in EDM2. Anyway, I will say that the autors are: El Vato, and WarpCafé (and anybody whose contribution I use).

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  warpcafe warpcafe@yahoo.de
Date  :  08 Mar, 2007 on 11:01
Hola!

Good to see you have resolved the problems (despite the remaining installs that are yet to come). I would appreciate VERY much to see all the mentioned information in one place. If you vote for this thread, that's okay with me - but there's two alternatives which I think are even better suited to provide a muc higher value for the entire community:

1) Write an article - for VOICE, OS/2 e-zine, EDM or even here at os2world (whatever you prefer)

2) Put that on a wiki-based site so that others can add information to it (might also work for EDM - IIRC it's netlabs wiki behind it?)

Sorry to bother you with "work", but as you claimed to be willing to do it... just a suggestion. Don't feel forced by me!

Regards,
Thomas


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  Blonde Guy
Date  :  09 Mar, 2007 on 04:27
You know, I installed WinXP and eCS and I really didn't have any problems. eCS is on a logical, WinXP is on a primary, and boot manager is installed between them.

Here is the trick. There are only 4 primary paritions on a hard drive.

I don't think it matters if WinXP is first or eCS or boot manager. But remember that boot manager takes a primary, and WinXP takes a primary, and the extended partition takes a primary. My computer has a recovery partition that takes another primary, so all 4 primary partitions are all used up.

I think most of the installation problems happen to people who can't count to 4 properly.

I did learn to exit boot.ini on Windows, though, in case I accidently made Windows unbootable.

---
Expert Consulting for OS/2 and eComStation


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  09 Mar, 2007 on 10:03
Ok. Edm/2 (www.edm2.com) is Wiki. So, anybody can add or correct things in an article. He/she must be registered first.

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  El Vato
Date  :  09 Mar, 2007 on 20:23

aasdelat (08 Mar, 2007 10:34):


Once you have your bootable diskette media ready, insert it into your floppy device and reboot your machine if necessary. Once the floppy media takes you into a command prompt, remove the MBR of your hard disk as follows:

FDISK /MBR

and your Master Boot Record is erased.



[...]So, I erased all partitions with "qtpared" from a bootable linux CD (I used guadalinex distribution, based on debian). This time I got no new complains from BM and since then, I only use BM to touch partitions.

...it is evident that the lesson learned here is that (usually) whatever (partition) WinXX touches turns to crap.

On the other hand, there are exceptions to the rule. I have installed OS/2 in laptops (IBM, Sony, Dell) where WinXX was preinstalled or, in the case of some newer IBM ThinkPads, there was an recovery image in a hidden partition.

Interestingly, in some of the above instances, it is not necessary to remove the WinXX partition; it suffices to merely resize it with an NTFS capable resizing utility and LVM-enabled BM will not complain. You got one of those odd rough instances. Good that you now only use your LVM BM to do further slices in your hard drive(s)! And better yet that you have an open perspective since you value the power of Linux to clean the leftover WinXX crap.
[...]


aasdelat (08 Mar, 2007 10:34):
I can do this on a NTFS file system using the WinXP bootable CD.

In some situations, like when WinXX comes preinstalled, you do not have that option. Additionally, when there is a recovery partition and the image there is expanded into a primary partition, the initial phase is (usually) done in FAT32; and it is not until the end of the WinXX installation that the recovery utility uses the WinXX system CONVERT command to turn the FAT32 into NTFS.

Consequently, even if one has the WinXX bootable media, the administrator password may not be known --yes, I know, there are admin password crackers out there. Notwithstanding, whenever possible simply formatting the WinXX partition as FAT32 will allow writing access from an Linux and/or OS/2 bootable media --at least until you are done setting up your multi-boot system in your machine.

Finally, there is some add on software for writing NTFS file systems from within Linux but at the moment it is not very friendly nor intuitive --another pro argument for initial FAT32 formatting for those who will install WinXX first.


aasdelat (08 Mar, 2007 10:34):
And that's all (by now). I still have to install OS/2 and linux, but with BM not complainig any more, this will be very easy.

A couple of pointers, if I may suggest. Red Hat Fedora 6 by default will not read/write your HPFS partitions. Debian and Novell's Linux OpenSuSE and/or SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED) do not have Fedora's HPFS initial handicap.

By default each of the Linux operating systems above will suggest 3 partitions --and the SWAP partition; each partition will be done without regard for OS/2's BM interpretation of LVM and ...you will be in trouble if you allow it to happen. The Linux implementation of LVM is slightly different than that of OS/2's.

Accordingly, from your OS/2 LVM-enbled utility plan and implement the creation of at least 2 logical partitions: your root partition and your SWAP file; the latter (SWAP) should be at least equal to your installed amount of RAM. Performancewise, the SWAP should ideally be created in a second hard drive --if you have that option, of course.

Alternatively, you might create three(3) logical partitions: 100MB (/boot) partition, a root (/) partition, and your SWAP partition --all from the OS/2 LVM utility. Enable the boot partition as bootable if you implement this latter suggestion. Otherwise enable the root partiton as bootable.

Note that you may need to deallocate the drive letter of your Linux bootable partitions. As with the WinXX partitioning issues, deallocation of the Linux drive letters from within OS/2's LVM is not strictly necessary but keep that option ready in case of problems.

Pay particular attention to where you install the Linux GRUB booting utility. By default it will be installed on the MBR of your hard disk and (ugh!) if you have your OS/2 LVM-enabled BM there it will get beaten badly by the Penguin.

If you do not have sufficient experience with Linux but feel that you do not need the WinXX-like patronizing of any version of Ubuntu, you may want to use either OpenSuSE (unsupported) and/or SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop ($50.00 support subscription per year).

The latter(s) provide an intuitive graphical user interface that will allow you flexibility not existing in Ubuntu; yet, that flexibility will not overwhelm you with copious technicalities like Debian.

Now for the (A)XGL stuff. Fedora 6 and (supported) SLED support it "out of the box."The other Linux Distros require some tweaking but... it is worth it -- I took this Java snapshot from within OS/2 peeking into SLED. As you can see WinXX is simply a guest application on Linux. It is evident that to halt predatory proprietary software, it is necessary to match each of its predatory and closed attributes with open standards free equivalents of superb quality !

[...]


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  14 Mar, 2007 on 16:33
Thank you for your valuable advices.
eCs is now installed. Now goes Linux.
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  15 Mar, 2007 on 00:07
Please, can you help me with this issue?:
I've installed Linux (guadalinex, based on Ubuntu). I created with BM two logical drives in the extended partition: one of them is 20 Gb and the other one, 256 Mb. The first one is for the system (and was made bootable), and the other one, for swap.
The process completed and rebooted the machine to load linux from installed partition. But when I select Linux from BM it issues the following message: "Selected partition is not formatted, hit any key". I hit a key and return to BM selection menu. What can be the problem and the possible solution?.
Thank you very much.

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  BigWarpGuy
Date  :  15 Mar, 2007 on 13:33

aasdelat (14 Mar, 2007 16:33):
Thank you for your valuable advices.
eCs yet installed. Now goes Linux.

eCS yet installed? You should give eCS a try. There is a demo cd from the http://www.ecomstation.com . One can download it and create a cd from it and try it without having to install it. IMO eCS is cool.

---
BigWarpGuy
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
OS/2-eCS.org
Director of Communications
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
supporting the past OS/2 user and the future eCS user
http://www.os2ecs.org


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  15 Mar, 2007 on 14:05
Sorry, my english is not very good. I meant: eCs is now installed. I've corrected my post.

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  El Vato
Date  :  15 Mar, 2007 on 15:44

aasdelat (15 Mar, 2007 00:07):
Please, can you help me with this issue?:
I've installed Linux (guadalinex, based on Ubuntu). I created with BM two logical drives in the extended partition: one of them is 20 Gb and the other one, 256 Mb. The first one is for the system (and was made bootable), and the other one, for swap.
The process completed and rebooted the machine to load linux from installed partition. But when I select Linux from BM it issues the following message: "Selected partition is not formatted, hit any key". I hit a key and return to BM selection menu. What can be the problem and the possible solution?.
Thank you very much.

Well, at the risk if being kicked out of the forum for providing Linux related content, here is my insight:

It appears that GRand Unified Boot (GRUB) loader was installed on the wrong partition, evidently.

You can check which logical partition number your current Linux installation is by counting the logical partitions from within your OS/2 LVM utility.

Open an OS/2 command prompt and type:

LVM

You will be taken into the Logical View (as discussed elsewhere).

Now press F5.

An you will be taken into the Physical view of your hard disk (again, as
discussed previously).

Press TAB to be changed onto your (physical) hard disk partitions in the lower half of the LVM utility Physical view screen. Please, do not mind Primary partition(s) for now; only observe that you may have 3 primary partitions --with the logical (or extended) set of slices representing the 4th partition (maximum for Intel architecture --I believe).

The first Logical partition is equivalent to Linux's       /dev/hda5
The second Logical partition is equivalent to Linux's   /dev/hda6
The third Logical partition is equivalent to Linux's       /dev/hda7
The fourth Logical partition is equivalent to Linux's    /dev/hda8
The fifth Logical partition is equivalent to Linux's       /dev/hda9
etc., etc..


IMPORTANT:

To GRUB, the first hard disk is hd (irrespective if it is IDE and/or SCSI) .

Let us assume that your Linux installation resides in /dev/hda9 for an IDE hard disk (and/or /dev/sda9 for an SCSI hard disk).

Then your two lines of GRUB's menu.lst configuration file that specify which partition to boot (your root partition where Linux is installed, of course) would read (your distribution name and kernel version will likely differ, of course):

title     Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-4-686
root     (hd0,8)
kernel   /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.18-4-686 root=/dev/hda9 ro


Notice the arguments (hd0,8); GRUB will start counting at index 0 of your
partitioning scheme --just like the arrays in C++ and Java. On the other hand, Linux will "see" the same element as /dev/hda9, i.e, will start counting from index 1, as is evident from the kernel parameter above.

Needless to say when there are problems, the human is supposed to satisfy those two conditions above. After all we insist on using these toys, do not we? Otherwise, your Linux will not boot. GuadaLinux, being based on Ubuntu may have the same issues experienced by OriAl elsewhere (<
http://www.os2world.com/cgi-bin/ultraboard/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=61&TID=1712&P=1#ID1712 >),.


Now for a more specific example regarding you Linux distribution. I downloadedthe non-live image (~700MB) and proceeded to install it under OS/2's VirtualPC/2 but the dialogs were too low of the screen view and I could not see what those required.

According, I tried VmWare on my SuSE Linux Entreprise Desktop and allocated two(2) Gigs to the hard disk image whereas the installer required a minimum of three(3) Gigs. It went through notwithstanding. My impression of it??? It is Ubuntu with different colors and a Spanish target market.

Well, provided that you had enough hard disk space and the installation did not end abruptly. This is what is required to reinstall GRUB into its
appropriate partition.

Boot with your non-live bootable CD-media. Select from the menu recovery (Rescatar un sistema dañado) and follow the process that resembles and regular installation except that the upper left corner states rescue (Modo rescate).

From analysis in your OS/2's LVM utility, you found out which logical partition contains your Linux distro. Select the appropriate one. In my specific case, VmWare suggested a couple of SCSI hard drives for better virtual performance.

Hence I selected the Logical partition /dev/sda5 because /dev/sdb5 is another virtual SCSI for SWAP partition file.


I elected from the ensuing menu to reinstall GRUB (Reinstalando el cargador de arranque GRUB) since it gives a high level graphical interface.

You have the option of specifying the partition to reinstall GRUB in either of two ways: the GRUB zero-indexed manner and or the Linux one-indexed manner. Compare both ways and understand why the GRUB way is one less than the Linux
way.

Toggle the selections using the TAB key and select "continue" to reinstallyour GRUB. Complete the rest of the instructions and finally reboot. If everything goes well, you should be able to reboot into your Linux from your OS/2 LVM-enabled BM.

In my case, opening the file /boot/grub/menu.lst in an text editor, I can
show the relationships between what Linux partitioning utility "sees" and what GRUB "sees" --as judged by the file referenced above opened with the Unix/Linux vim text editor, i.e.:

vi -R /boot/grub/menu.lst

Although both entites above perceive different a given set of physical/logical objects, they both arrive at the same conclussion and cooperate to make the OS entities coexist as frictionless as possible and (consequently) boot (to life) appropriately.

...I wish I could say the same of the politicians that derive their power from us, the people; yet, instead of cooperation they engage in mutual destruction demanding of us an irrational servitude.

Henry Thoreau once remarked that when the machinery of governments becomes rusty and does not serve the people anymore, to simply "...let it go, let it go."


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  Terry tgindy@yahoo.com
Date  :  15 Mar, 2007 on 18:24
This thread has expanded into so much more useful information than my initial question asked for, and this is to our community's credit.

I have yet to find all of these additional considerations to really be adequately addressed like this in other eCS/OS-2 outlets so thoroughly, with this much flexibility, and yet in such a concise manner.

P.S.: This is a good thing.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  15 Mar, 2007 on 22:59

Notice the arguments (hd0,8); GRUB will start counting at index 0 of your
partitioning scheme --just like the arrays in C++ and Java. On the other hand, Linux will "see" the same element as /dev/hda9, i.e, will start counting from index 1, as is evident from the kernel parameter above.

Ok. I understand.


GuadaLinux, being based on Ubuntu may have the same issues experienced by OriAl elsewhere (<
http://www.os2world.com/cgi-bin/ultraboard/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=61&TID=1712&P=1#ID1712 >),.

I read this thread and other two ones referenced by this one. I reach the conclusion that I have to install grub in the boot sector of /dev/hda6 (in linux notation, not in grub notation). I have linux installed on /dev/hda6 (the second logical volume in the extended partition).
I also read that if I treat to boot guadalinex (ubuntu) with BM, I can lose data. This means that I've lost data because I treated to boot the linux partition from BM (although I can see the folders in /dev/hda6 when I boot from guadalinex bootable cd -live version-).


Now for a more specific example regarding you Linux distribution...

You are a true genius doing so much to help me. I'm very grateful to you.


It is Ubuntu with different colors and a Spanish target market.

Yes, everybody says it.

Boot with your non-live bootable CD-media.

I'm very sorry, but I do not install this version because it is still beta. I install version 3.0.1 live. And this version does not have the recovery option at startup.
But I treated to install Grub from a termial when booted with the Linux cd (v3.0.1 live).
I followed the instructions given in the guadalinex web. The instructions are to type the following commands:
code:

sudo mkdir /mnt/test
sudo mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/test
sudo chroot /mnt/test
sudo grub-install /dev/hda
sudo umount /mnt/test
exit


But I did not dare to issue the "sudo grub-install /dev/hda" command, thinking that it can overwrite BM.
I issued instead the command "sudo grub-install /dev/hda6", but this leads to an error "sudo: unable to lookup guadalinex via gethostbyname()".
I asked this in the guadalinex forum, but they replied me that I must issue "sudo grub-install /dev/hda" and must lose BM.
I do no want to do this. That's why, I post my problem here again.
Thank you for your interest and patinet.
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  El Vato
Date  :  16 Mar, 2007 on 07:22

aasdelat (15 Mar, 2007 23:03):

I also read that if I treat to boot guadalinex (ubuntu) with BM, I can lose data. This means that I've lost data because I treated to boot the linux partition from BM (although I can see the folders in /dev/hda6 when I boot from guadalinex bootable cd -live version-).


Then you just verified that the assumption is absolutely wrong. BM does not touch the partition that you specify that it boots.

After BM redirects the booting to occur in a given partition, it is up to the operating system at that partition to bootstrap itself by means of GRUB or whatever utility it uses to wake up.


Boot with your non-live bootable CD-media.
[quote]aasdelat (15 Mar, 2007 23:03):
I'm very sorry, but I do not install this version because it is still beta. I install version 3.0.1 live.

Well, now is an propicious time to step outside of the box of the status quo. A "live" CD, if you think about it, should not be able to modify your hard disks.

Download the non-bootable version of your specific Linux Distro and follow the steps outlined to recover. Relax, you are only installing the boot loader and not the "approved" stable packages since they are in your hard disk already.

An additional note. I installed Ubuntu in another test scenario in actual hardware sometime ago and it would not install GRUB in the logical partition that I directed it to do so. Notwithstanding, it "happily" installed on the master boot record of my hard disk. This handicap apparently has been passed on to your Linux distro.

Is this what you are actually typing

sudo mkdir /mnt/test
sudo mount /dev/hda6 /mnt/test
sudo chroot /mnt/test
sudo grub-install /dev/hda6
sudo umount /mnt/test
exit



aasdelat (15 Mar, 2007 23:03):
But I did not dare to issue the "sudo grub-install /dev/hda" command, thinking that it can overwrite BM.

...it will overwrite your BM, definitely.


aasdelat (15 Mar, 2007 23:03):
I issued instead the command "sudo grub-install /dev/hda6", but this leads to an error "sudo: unable to lookup guadalinex via gethostbyname()".

Major Linux distributions that I mentioned elsewhere do not have that handicap.


aasdelat (15 Mar, 2007 23:03):
I asked this in the guadalinex forum, but they replied me that I must issue "sudo grub-install /dev/hda" and must lose BM.

That inflexibility might be acceptable in the WinXX world from where those forum members probably come from, given the fact that Ubuntu is a fairly simple distro, but it is unacceptable in the world of Open Source Software (OSS).

Best of Luck.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  16 Mar, 2007 on 17:47

Is this what you are actually typing

sudo mkdir /mnt/test
sudo mount /dev/hda6 /mnt/test
sudo chroot /mnt/test
sudo grub-install /dev/hda6
sudo umount /mnt/test
exit



Yes, it is.

On the other hand, I have downloded the non-bootable version of guadalinex (that's why I've taken so long to answer). But this version (v3.0.1 nolive) doesn't have an option to rescue the system. But, if I interrupt the installation, a menu appears where I can choose what phase of the installation do I want to execute. I choose the grub installation, but it returns an error. I also choose lilo installation, but it also returns an error.


Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  16 Mar, 2007 on 21:29
I wasn't really following this thread, as I'm not that interested in WinXP issues. But I see now I've been quoted here so I ought to clarify, and we'll see if I can be of a little help now that we're talking about GRUB.


aasdelat (15 Mar, 2007 23:03):

I read this thread and other two ones referenced by this one. I reach the conclusion that I have to install grub in the boot sector of /dev/hda6 (in linux notation, not in grub notation). I have linux installed on /dev/hda6 (the second logical volume in the extended partition).

I also read that if I treat to boot guadalinex (ubuntu) with BM, I can lose data. This means that I've lost data because I treated to boot the linux partition from BM (although I can see the folders in /dev/hda6 when I boot from guadalinex bootable cd -live version-).


Thank you for reading those threads Antonio, I'm very glad you learned from them. I did say you can lose data, but I did not mean that you necessarily will lose data just because you try to boot to an unbootable partition. My experience I mentioned was using the old "pre-LVM" BM, and it actually executed whatever randomness was on my unbootable boot sector, and it screwed up my whole MBR making the system unbootable and wiping my partition table. That makes me warn that doing it is dangerous, but I would not assume then that any data is actually missing in your case. If you got a nice clean error message that it could not boot, and you see your partitions and data, it's a safe bet everything is fine. I wasn't so lucky.



But I treated to install Grub from a termial when booted with the Linux cd (v3.0.1 live).
I followed the instructions given in the guadalinex web. The instructions are to type the following commands:
code:

sudo mkdir /mnt/test
sudo mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/test
sudo chroot /mnt/test
sudo grub-install /dev/hda
sudo umount /mnt/test
exit


But I did not dare to issue the "sudo grub-install /dev/hda" command, thinking that it can overwrite BM.
I issued instead the command "sudo grub-install /dev/hda6", but this leads to an error "sudo: unable to lookup guadalinex via gethostbyname()".
I asked this in the guadalinex forum, but they replied me that I must issue "sudo grub-install /dev/hda" and must lose BM.
I do no want to do this. That's why, I post my problem here again.
Thank you for your interest and patinet.

Bravo for not executing grub-install /dev/hda, even when told to by helpers! You did the right thing. You should never overwrite your MBR with GRUB when you want to use BM. They gave you lame advice, because gethostbyname() has absolutely nothing to do with the target to which you are installing GRUB.

What is happening is sudo is doing a lookup on your hostname, which, booted to the CD, is guadalinux, but as you are in a "chroot" environment, it cannot find this host anywhere.

Removed unnecessary complicated fix as it was solved another way.

With those last commands:

code:

sudo grub-install /dev/hda6
exit
sudo umount /mnt/test

That's actually the correct order of the commands, because you have to exit the chroot before you can unmount it.

Another thought I have is that you don't seem to be using a Linux boot partition. Are you sure that is the case? If you have a /boot partition, that is where GRUB should be installed. Even if not it should be ok, but I'm not sure whether you can install GRUB while it is mounted. If that turns out to be a problem, you are going to need to boot to another Linux CD that has GRUB on it so you don't have to execute it from your hard drive. That would also avoid the messiness of gethostbyname(). It may even be worthwhile to just do it, avoiding the bother of the procedure I gave above.

Good luck, and do post how it goes, good or bad.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  16 Mar, 2007 on 21:48
This problem confirms once again my thought that we need a native OS/2 LVM-compatible GRUB GUI tool.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  16 Mar, 2007 on 22:55
Thank you, obiwan, but I got arround the sudo error by logging in as root, and issuing all the commands without the "sudo". But then, I get another error. Here is what I write and get in the terminal:


live@guadalinex:~$ su
Password:
root@guadalinex:/home/live# mkdir /mnt/test
root@guadalinex:/home/live# mount /dev/hda6 /mnt/test
root@guadalinex:/home/live# chroot /mnt/test
root@guadalinex:/# grub-install /dev/hda6
The file /boot/grub/stage1 not read correctly.
root@guadalinex:/#


Another thought I have is that you don't seem to be using a Linux boot partition. Are you sure that is the case? If you have a /boot partition, that is where GRUB should be installed.

How can I find if I'm using a Linux boot partition. I made it bootable in BM. Do you mean this?.

If that turns out to be a problem, you are going to need to boot to another Linux CD that has GRUB on it so you don't have to execute it from your hard drive.

But I'm booting fom a Linux CD that has GRUB on it. I do not execute it from hard drive.
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  16 Mar, 2007 on 23:24
Ah, I like the 'su' solution much better. Good work Antonio.

A Linux boot partition is the location of the contents of the /boot directory.

See in Linux each partition has a mount point. So a directory can be just a directory on a filesystem, or it can be another filesystem.

From what I understand of your description, /dev/hda6 is the mount point for your root filesystem, or /. (Not to be confused with /root.)

When you run 'mount /dev/hda6 /mnt/test', you mount the /dev/hda6 filesystem to the mount point /mnt/test. /mnt/test used to be a directory on your CD boot image, but after this command, it now contains the filesystem on the /dev/hda6 partition, until you umount (or reboot).

Usually, a small partition is created for holding your Linux kernel and GRUB binaries, and mounted at /boot. If you don't, then your Linux kernel and GRUB binaries will just be in the /boot directory.

You know you have a Linux boot partition if you have another primary partition other than your OS/2 and BM partitions. You know you should have it if you have no other primary partition and your /boot directory is empty. If that is the case your best bet is to reinstall Linux. No kernel, no boot.

The error about stage1 is critical, it means it's not finding your GRUB binaries. Check if that file is there.

When you mount /dev/hda6 to /mnt/test you are mounting your root filesystem, and when you chroot to it you are effectively running everything from there, so yes you are running GRUB from the hard drive. I'm not sure if that's the problem though.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  17 Mar, 2007 on 09:53

Usually, a small partition is created for holding your Linux kernel and GRUB binaries, and mounted at /boot. If you don't, then your Linux kernel and GRUB binaries will just be in the /boot directory.

Does this mean that linux cannot boot from a logical drive in the extended partition?. Must it boot from a primary partition?. Although booted from BM?.
I do not have such primary partition.
Will the problem be solved if I install linux on a primary partition?.
Here are the screens from lvm (started in a os/2 session):



Logical Volume Management Tool - Logical View

ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿

³ Logical Volume Type Status File System Size (MB)³

ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄŽ

³Linux Guadalinex Compatibility Bootable None 20002 ³

³Linux Swap Compatibility None 258 ³

³eCom Station C: Compatibility Bootable HPFS 25007 ³

³Windows D: Compatibility Bootable NTFS 30004 ³

³[ V1 ] *->E: Compatibility 0 ³

³Fat F: Compatibility None 1035 ³

³[ CDROM 1 ] *->S: Compatibility CDFS 620 ³

³[ CDROM 2 ] *->T: Compatibility CDFS 527 ³

³ ³

³ ³

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³ Disk Partition Size (MB) Disk Name ³

ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄŽ

³Linux Guadalinex 20002 [ D1 ] ³

³ ³

³ ³

³ ³

³ ³

ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ

F1=help F3=exit F5=Physical View Enter=Options Tab=Window

And the following is after pressing F5 (Physical View):

Logical Volume Management Tool - Physical View

ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿

³ Physical Disk Size (MB) Free Space: Total Largest ³

ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄŽ

³1 [ D1 ] 76316 0 0 ³

³2 [ D2 ] 96 96 96 ³

³ ³

³ ³

³ ³

³ ³

³ ³

³ ³

³ ³

³ ³

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ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿

³ Disk Partition Size (MB) Type Status Logical Volume ³

ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄŽ

³Windows 30004 Primary In use Windows ³

³[ BOOT MANAGER ] 7 Primary In use ³

³eCom Station 25007 Logical In use eCom Station ³

³Linux Guadalinex 20002 Logical In use Linux Guadalinex ³

³Linux Swap 258 Logical In use Linux Swap ³

ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ

F1=help F3=exit F5=Logical View Enter=Options Tab=Window

Although Linux Guadalinex appears with "File System->None", linux is installed there, and with the program "disks-admin" from the bootable linux cd, it appears with ext3 file system, but State->inaccessible (but I can mount and access it).



The error about stage1 is critical, it means it's not finding your GRUB binaries. Check if that file is there.

Yes, it is in the hard disk in "/media/hda6/boot/grub/stage1", and it is also in the CD, and in the ramdisk image (this is the root partition when I boot from the CD), in "/boot/grub/stage1".

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  17 Mar, 2007 on 19:36
GRUB and Linux don't care if it's a primary or logical partition. That's fine. Looks like the GRUB binaries are where they should be. Let's try this a different way. I prefer calling grub directly rather than using grub-install. Just to be sure what your partitions look like, please boot to the Linux CD and post the output of
code:
fdisk -l /dev/hda
Then I'll provide the grub commands to (hopefully) get this done.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  17 Mar, 2007 on 23:42
Here is the screen with the output:

root@guadalinex:/home/live# fdisk -l /dev/hda

Disco /dev/hda: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
255 cabezas, 63 sectores/pista, 9729 cilindros
Unidades = cilindros de 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Disposit. Inicio Comienzo Fin Bloques Id Sistema
/dev/hda1 * 3826 3826 8032+ a OS/2 Boot Manager
/dev/hda2 1 3825 30724281 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/hda3 3827 9729 47415847+ f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/hda5 * 3827 7014 25607578+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/hda6 * 7015 9564 20482843+ 6 FAT16
/dev/hda7 * 9565 9597 265041 6 FAT16
/dev/hda8 * 9598 9729 1060258+ 6 FAT16

Las entradas de la tabla de particiones no están en el orden del disco
root@guadalinex:/home/live#


If you don't understand spanish words, here is the translation:
Disco = Disk
cabezas = heads
sectores/pista = sectors/track
cilindros = cylinders
Unidades = units
Disposit. = device
inicio = begin
fin = end
Bloques = blocks
Id = Id
Sistema = System

Las entradas de la tabla de particiones no están en el orden del disco = The entries in the partition table are not in the same order that they have in the disk.

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 05:26
To get to the grub prompt, you should be able to just boot to the CD, use 'su' to become root, and then run grub.

code:

live@guadalinex:~$ su
Password:
root@guadalinex:/home/live# grub
Probing devices to guess BIOS drives. This may take a long time.

GNU GRUB version 0.97 (640K lower / 3072K upper memory)

[ Minimal BASH-like line editing is supported. For the first word, TAB
lists possible command completions. Anywhere else TAB lists the possible
completions of a device/filename. ]

grub>


It should not be necessary to mount and chroot /dev/hda6 unless grub isn't on the CD. Try it without it first. Here are the commands to enter at the grub prompt:

code:

grub> root (hd0,x)
grub> setup (hd0,x)
grub> quit

"Root" refers to GRUB's root, where it should find its binaries, in this case also the Unix root, but in other cases it could be the /boot partition.

Setup means where it should do the GRUB initialization, in this case the boot sector of a partition.

Hd0 refers to the first hard disk.

Replace 'x' with the correct number of the partition (bearing in mind GRUB counts starting with 0).

Removed some specifics to this case as they turned out to be erroneous.

Let's hope this does the trick.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 09:37
Here is what I get:

code:

live@guadalinex:~$ su
Password:
root@guadalinex:/home/live# grub
Probing devices to guess BIOS drives. This may take a long time.

GNU GRUB version 0.95 (640K lower / 3072K upper memory)

[ Minimal BASH-like line editing is supported. For the first word, TAB
lists possible command completions. Anywhere else TAB lists the possible
completions of a device/filename. ]

grub> root (hd0,4)
Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7

grub> setup (hd0,4)

Error 17: Cannot mount selected partition




---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  El Vato
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 09:44

aasdelat (17 Mar, 2007 23:42):
Here is the screen with the output:
[pre]
root@guadalinex:/home/live# fdisk -l /dev/hda

Disco /dev/hda: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
255 cabezas, 63 sectores/pista, 9729 cilindros
Unidades = cilindros de 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Disposit. Inicio Comienzo Fin Bloques Id Sistema
/dev/hda1 * 3826 3826 8032+ a OS/2 Boot Manager
/dev/hda2 1 3825 30724281 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/hda3 3827 9729 47415847+ f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/hda5  *  3827  7014  25607578+  7 HPFS/NTFS<=== GRUB's (0,4)
/dev/hda6 * 7015 9564 20482843+ 6 FAT16
/dev/hda7 * 9565 9597 265041 6 FAT16
/dev/hda8 * 9598 9729 1060258+ 6 FAT16


Those entries that I highlighted in red are not right. The logical partitions /dev/hda6 (purportedly your root partition) should be a file type 83 Linux NOT 6 FAT16; the same goes for your SWAP file partition: 82 Linux swap / Solaris

Consequently, either you did not install/mount/format your distro in an appropriate file system or you have messed up the partitions by now.

This snapshot is from an physical (as opposed to virtual) file system and its relationship to GRUB's /boot/grub/menu.lst configuration file in a Debian root residing at GRUB's (0,8) and Linux's /dev/hda9 --compare it to what you show very carefully since I will be making another observation correcting some further misinformation.

As explained in one of my previous posts, perhaps our friend who made the suggestion above did not understand it completely since he asked you to install GRUB at

(0,4)

That is wrong since you will potentially be overwriting your first (Extended) logical partition table (if GRUB does not have any preventive mechanisms).

Yes, GRUB starts counting at the zero(0) index BUT the first four primary partitions are implicitely included whether those exist or not.

Consequently, when it comes to logical partitions GRUB (and Linux) wil always start at partiton number 4 (and 5, respectively) even if there is only one or two primary partitions.

It does not mean that GRUB counts literally each partition from the beginning of your hard disk. GRUB's counting notion is made explicit to the human operator as printed numbers guiding the human in the fdisk output. And it means that if the first logical partition (where you have OS/2, I assume) is /dev/hda5 then that is what GRUB refers to (0,4) and Linux "sees" as /dev/hda5 --even if you do not have primary partitions.

Makes sense If it does not go ahead and view the snapshot of the actual GRUB configuration file above once again and compare the values with the adjoint fdisk output.

Reiterating, it does not matter if you have only one primary partition (or two, or even none --as a matter of fact). GRUB will always see the first logical partition as (0,4) and Linux as 5 or /dev/hda5.

Attempting to install GRUB at first logical partition (0,4) might (in your specific case) mess your OS/2.

With that issue hopefully understood by our friend also, you migh want to reinstall your Linux distro paying particular attention to the mount point, file system type, etc..

I mentioned twice before that Ubuntu live has problems installing GRUB in other than the master boot in your hard disk (attempting GRUB's (0,6) installation did not work in my past experience). I also mentioned that your distro, being a derivative work from Ubuntu, might have inherited that crap.

As I remarked to OriAl in a previous referenced post, software and hardware being creations by ephemeral creatures have many limitations. And those can not be overcome by projecting ones desires upon the latter's physical/rational boundaries.

In other words, you may have to remove your boot manager --at least temporarily-- to fulfill your task.

Best regards.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  El Vato
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 10:05

aasdelat (19 Mar, 2007 09:37):
[...]
grub> root (hd0,4)
Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7

And GRUB is correct and you were lucky not to have messed your OS/2 partition since 0x7 is type HPFS/NTFS.


aasdelat (19 Mar, 2007 09:37):
grub> setup (hd0,4)

Error 17: Cannot mount selected partition

[/code]


Because two conditions fail: partition type 0x7 and file system is neither Ext3, XFS, JFS, nor RaiserFS --i,e, Linux file systems for root/boot.

...


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 11:27
I resolved to do the following:
1º- Start with the linux bootable CD.
2º- Execute cfdisk from the linux bootable CD.
3º- With this partitioning program, I removed the bootable flag from every partition except from the BM partition.
4º- Then (using cfdisk), I changed the partition type for linux to type 83, and the partition type for linux-swap to 82.
5º- Exited cfdisk.
6º- Executed GRUB as super user. This is what happend:

code:

grub> root (hd0,5)
Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83

grub> setup (hd0,5)
Checking if "/boot/grub/stage1" exists... yes
Checking if "/boot/grub/stage2" exists... yes
Checking if "/boot/grub/e2fs_stage1_5" exists... yes
Running "embed /boot/grub/e2fs_stage1_5 (hd0,5)"... failed (this is not fatal)
Running "embed /boot/grub/e2fs_stage1_5 (hd0,5)"... failed (this is not fatal)
Running "install /boot/grub/stage1 (hd0,5) /boot/grub/stage2 p /boot/grub/menu
.lst "... succeeded
Done.


¿And now, I will restart the computer to see what happended?.

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.


Subject  :  SUCCESS!!!
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 11:43
SUCCESS!!!

I'm writing this message from linux booted from harddisk using BM.
It was hard, large, but funny and very interesting.
I whant to thank el vato, obiwan, warpcafe, etc, and everyone that contributed to this happy end.

I'm intrigated about the messages:

code:
Running "embed /boot/grub/e2fs_stage1_5 (hd0,5)"... failed (this is not fatal)
Running "embed /boot/grub/e2fs_stage1_5 (hd0,5)"... failed (this is not fatal)

And now, it's time for the EDM2 article, but I need to have time. Hope soon.

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  obiwan
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 18:23
Thanks El Vato for the clarification on GRUB's hard disk ordering. I spent some time looking for documentation on that and did not find it. This is my first encounter with putting GRUB on logical partitions, and I made a bad assumption. I really should have made sure that was right before posting. My apologies for putting out bad and potentially damaging information. I'll correct or remove the erroneous text.

One thing you might be interested in knowing is that Linux does not really care about partition types. It is perfectly acceptable to use a "fat16" type partition for swap or ext3 filesystems. GRUB didn't say it did not like the type 0x7, rather it said the HPFS filesystem could not be read. That is more likely why it failed. Actually as long as it can't find its binaries, it will fail, and it was looking for them in the wrong place, (hd0,4) instead of (hd0,5).

Also, technically, 0x7 is type IFS, not HPFS/NTFS. GRUB/Linux devs use the wrong term.


Subject  :  Re:Dual-Booting eCS 2.1R and WinXP
Author  :  aasdelat
Date  :  19 Mar, 2007 on 23:23
Don't worry, obiwan, everything has gone OK.

---
Antonio Serrano.
Greetings from Málaga, Spain.

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