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WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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pw
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1. WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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To continue the misplaced discussion from
http://www.os2world.com/cgi-bin/ultraboard/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=3&TID=208&SID=57252
and to give Vlad or other WarpVision project members a change to explain why they do not open the sources to WVGUI despite using LGPL and GPL sources in their project, I start this topic.

I found snippets of the following projects in video2.exe:
- libVorbis from Xiph.Org. They require to give their "copyright notice [...] other materials provided with the distribution" in binary distribution using their source.
- FFMPEG, which is LGPL and therefore requires to at least distribute the final program with a copy of the LGPL and a list of changes to the original library (a diff).
- Part of MPlayer, especially the demuxer. This is GPL, making the source to the compete project available is a requirement.
- libdvdread. This, too, is GPL source.
- the project webpage also mentions liba52 and libmpeg2. But I did not have time to confirm, if they are in a recent video2.exe. But both are GPL projects.

Date: 04 Jul, 2003 on 16:09
dink
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2. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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jesus christ! get a life already
Date: 04 Jul, 2003 on 18:32
JonOS/2
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3. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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pw, what kind of person are you? Those guys are at least trying to keep OS/2 alive. I dare bet you're not a real OS/2 user; otherwhise you wouldn't be selling this kind of non-sense. Read your the REAL GPL clearly; and see what Microsoft does with it. Then I think that we all needn't complain about WaprVision.
So please stop with this kind of demotivating crap, since I and a lot of other people want those developer to be motivated and continue to be until the bitter OS/2 end. Deal?
Date: 04 Jul, 2003 on 20:01
devnul
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4. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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PW is right. Nothing more needs to be said
Date: 04 Jul, 2003 on 20:35
pw
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5. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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JonOS/2 (Jul 04, 2003 21:01):
Read your the REAL GPL clearly

JonOS/2, please tell me which part of the GPL I should read again!


and see what Microsoft does with it.

Do you really think Microsoft would steal the WarpVision code when they can already take the Win32 code from the MPlayer and VideoLan projects?

From my point of view the WarpVision people just need to publish their complete source. That would definitely help to keep OS/2 alive and I don't think it would diminish their success in getting donations.

Date: 04 Jul, 2003 on 21:26
dink
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6. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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the wvgui author can do whatever the hell he wants, if you don't like the way he releases his stuff then don't use it and quit you're bitching, ya whiney-ass pansey.

you should be greatfull he's releaseing anything at all.

Date: 05 Jul, 2003 on 07:56
devnul
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7. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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Welcome in brave new OS/2

steal code, extort users if they complain.

whats next ?

congratulations Dink

Such deserves the only possible answer: THANKS NO

Date: 05 Jul, 2003 on 09:46
pw
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8. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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dink, care to explain why _you_ get so agitated? If you can further explain why you think he is right instead of just cursing then do it!
You have said before that you do not release z! as open source because you don't want it to be stolen. And now that somebody is doing just that with someone elses code you find it OK?
And as I have said before, I do not use WVGUI anymore, I just downloaded it to check the first claim that is only uses FFMPEG and nothing else.

And thanks, devnul. At least one proper soul among the OS/2 community.

Date: 05 Jul, 2003 on 11:12
nickk
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9. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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As dink said in another thread , warpvision sources are available through cvs. The wvgui = warpvision + some gui controls. I see no point why a couple of guys are bitching there. May be they are just an angry too young couple. But ir will definitely get away when you'll grow. So, just have enough patience to wait.
Date: 05 Jul, 2003 on 21:53
devnul
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10. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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When everything is in harmony -as some tend to make us believe, why is then Warpvision on mplayers blacklist ?

http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design6/projects.html

Date: 05 Jul, 2003 on 22:24
pw
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11. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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nickk (Jul 05, 2003 22:53):
warpvision sources are available through cvs. The wvgui = warpvision + some gui controls.

The last CVS checkin was on 7th of May, i.e. two months ago. And from the Changelog a lot has happened since then.
If it is really true that wvgui=wvcli+some controls then why did Vlad said no (with a great deal of cursing) when I asked him to open the source to WVGUI? It's not that the GUI looks so great that it would get used anywhere else if they did that...
Anyway, I just asked them again by email to check in the current sources into the CVS archive. If they really do that then I am content (and I will think about donating again).

Date: 06 Jul, 2003 on 09:27
Sebadoh
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12. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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As long as it remains free and has no mandatory fee then there is no reason why they cannot do whatever they wish with it. Dispite mplayer's homepages claims to the contrary the wv cli and wv gui development teams do clearly note that it uses source from the project. Mplayer's development team has no wishes to support OS/2 so the diff's (if any) which make it function as part of warp vision is completely useless to them,. As long as it remains free there is no reason to gripe. I was the first on the badnwagon on the april 1st release (be it a joke or not) that timed out after 15 mins. There are obviously siome difference between mplayer & wv seeing as every time I've tried it (using current versions of wvgui & mplayer) wvgui yielded better platyback, but most likely because they found a better piece in another project and replaced something in mplayer, which the original authors would never want to do to their project mostly because their pride would be hurt.. but anyway.. it is free.. I haven't donated yet.. but that doesn't exclue the possibility. It is one of the more useful applications OS/2 has right now.. if they could get streaming to work and make a mozilla plugin... my check would be in the mail

On another note... dink claiming z isn't open sourced because he doesn't want it stolen would be a) errournous (since if it was used in another free application he probably wouldn't care) b) is the reason why he doesn't release it open source so if the mplayer team didn't want it to be used that badly they didn't have to opensource to begin with.. it is something of a catch 22.. but point is.. neither application is commerical so there really is no loss here.

Date: 06 Jul, 2003 on 14:17
pw
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13. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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Sebadoh (Jul 06, 2003 15:17):
As long as it remains free and has no mandatory fee then there is no reason why they cannot do whatever they wish with it. Dispite mplayer's homepages claims to the contrary the wv cli and wv gui development teams do clearly note that it uses source from the project.

On their webpage, yes. But they do not show the licences which they have to. Nor is there any mention in the package they offer to download.
I find many things about their project strange and confusing, e.g.
- Since the beginning they were talking about merging CLI and GUI, but this never happened. Instead GUI was improved while CLI was not.
- Until somehow pressed end of last year they did not show which Linux projects they really used as base of their project.
- AFAICS it is nowhere documented, how to use Win32 DLLs and which of those are supported, which are superseded by a native solution. And what the difference between GUI and CLI is in this regard.
- Yves Letourneau stepped down as English translator/documentation checker because of communication problems.
If they had problems with the language then there should be a way to write the stuff only in Russian and find a capable translator (there are a few in the OS/2 community).

Mplayer's development team has no wishes to support OS/2 so the diff's (if any) which make it function as part of warp vision is completely useless to them,.

But it could be useful to OS/2 and eCS users like myself who want to compile the thing themselves. Just for fun. And the diffs should not only be against the MPlayer part of the code, but also against the original FFMPEG, libdvdread, and other used libraries. And some time in the future the current developers will probably use interest (as with very many OS/2 projects), and then the source will help the ensure that this project remains alive.

the mplayer team [...] didn't have to opensource to begin with.

Somehow I have difficulty understanding what you write about dink and Z!. But certainly the MPlayer guys wanted their code to be used, under the GPL license! That means that other developers are welcome to use their code, when they publish their new project as open source under the same license.

But obviously the WarpVision guys have no interest in playing by these rules. No answer to my polite email about checking in the current sources, no update to the CVS code, and no answer here...

Date: 07 Jul, 2003 on 17:52
warpcafe
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14. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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Woohoo! Flame wars on os2world?

Now, I don't know the folks of wv team, but afai can tell, life in russia is quite hard and those guys might possibly just save their little spare time to improve the product itself instead of dealing with the "rest" like updating cvs frequently, doing the paperwork, (L)GPL notice and readme stuff.
Maybe Yvon is able to tell us what's going on behind the scene? Let's give them a chance to reach some sort of milestone in development to see what'll happen. At least maybe they could be persuaded to allow someone to work on their docs in order to comply with (L)GPL.... and to do some kind of weekly updates on CVS.
If after all the don't want to do so, you're all allowed to send them to hell. I'll use wvgui anyway as long as it's available. Maybe someday they'll quit OS/2 and they'll open-source the stuff. Maybe not. Who knows? Who cares? And of course - as we all know: Who cares about OS/2 today?

Thomas
- Riding the pony 'til it dies -

Date: 07 Jul, 2003 on 21:44
nickk
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15. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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devnul (Jul 05, 2003 23:24):
When everything is in harmony -as some tend to make us believe, why is then Warpvision on mplayers blacklist ?

http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design6/projects.html[/quote]

Because mplayers authors try to blame anything capable to play divx. The warpvision is not the only case. Its just a clear example of paranoia.

Date: 08 Jul, 2003 on 08:39
nickk
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16. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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pw (Jul 06, 2003 10:27):

nickk (Jul 05, 2003 22:53):
warpvision sources are available through cvs. The wvgui = warpvision + some gui controls.

The last CVS checkin was on 7th of May, i.e. two months ago. And from the Changelog a lot has happened since then.
If it is really true that wvgui=wvcli+some controls then why did Vlad said no (with a great deal of cursing) when I asked him to open the source to WVGUI ? It's not that the GUI looks so great that it would get used anywhere else if they did that...
Anyway, I just asked them again by email to check in the current sources into the CVS archive. If they really do that then I am content (and I will think about donating again).



Yep, the warpvision cli latest version dated this tiime. And aboud wvgui - may be author dont like to open sources not because they are so good, but because they are so bad Who wants to show dirty uncompleted code ? Remember, that wvgui is far from real release still. Everyday lots of bugs are being fixed and some other are added. I see no point to show that code to public right now.. There is a good russian proverb : Dont show a result to fools while job isnt finished

Date: 08 Jul, 2003 on 08:44
pw
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17. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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nickk (Jul 08, 2003 09:44):
Remember, that wvgui is far from real release still. Everyday lots of bugs are being fixed and some other are added. I see no point to show that code to public right now.. There is a good russian proverb : Dont show a result to fools while job isnt finished

And that proverb is only about sources but not about binaries?
I thought that's exactly what CVS is for?! It is normally not expected to have clean code in such a repository. And you should know yourself that hardly any software is ever "finished", open source or not...

Anyway, we could go on discussing this, but there isn't really any point, as the WV guys obviously have nothing to say. What a shame to be part of a community which does not care about the basics of open source!

Date: 09 Jul, 2003 on 11:30
devnul
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18. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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pw (Jul 09, 2003 12:30):
[What a shame to be part of a community which does not care about the basics of open source!

Jugding the whole by some black-sheeps isn't quite helpful. Most developers (or should I say almost any with some minor exceptions) take care when they use open-source. And they have good reasons to do so, cause having a'good' contact with original developer(s) sometimes solves problems, saves time ...

Date: 09 Jul, 2003 on 12:34
pw
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19. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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devnul (Jul 09, 2003 13:34):

pw (Jul 09, 2003 12:30):
[What a shame to be part of a community which does not care about the basics of open source!

Jugding the whole by some black-sheeps isn't quite helpful.

You are right there, of course. But this topic has been read more than 300 times now, but has not had any effect other than a bit of flaming and me more or less having made a fool of myself. Yours are the only "proper" responses, the others just do not seem to care.
Date: 09 Jul, 2003 on 12:50
devnul
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20. Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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pw (Jul 09, 2003 13:50):
[but has not had any effect other than a bit of flaming and me more or less having made a fool of myself.

What did you expect ? Playing devils advocate isn't an easy job.

But maybe some words of Miguel Cervantes helps you to resist 'they believed of it as a sign of near death, seeing him transformed that easily from a fool to a rational man'

Date: 09 Jul, 2003 on 14:54
WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL
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