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Reality or Emulation?
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Reluctant Cynic
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1. Reality or Emulation?
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Why is it that whenever ECS gets demo'd, it is inside of an emulator window? How can they be seroius about the continued viability of ECS/OS2 if it is going to be just an emulated "toy" to veiw while using some other system? Am I the only one who feels that Serenity Systems is only using OS2 as a stepping stone to help their corporate clients move from OS2 to a totally different system?Such as linux, BSD, or that "other system". The only sane conclusion is that OS2 is being sucked dry and will be discarded when convienant. In business and politics, words and reassurances are meaningless; actions, such as displaying a compurter operating system inside of of an emulator, are very meaningful

Open Souce is only worthwhile if the actual operating system is open sourced, otherwise OS2 is dead except in emulation mode. Will IBM or Serenity Systems ever release the operating sytem? Would they commit themselves to a firm date, say 3 years from now when the code will be open sourced? Otherwise there is no hope of any real future for the system.

I love OS2/ECS and I'm fully aware that we would not have the opportunity to even discuss this topic without the work of Serenity Systems and many, many others. This is not a personal issue, but a business situation. Friendships and warm, fuzzy feelings do not make money, and if you're old enough to read this, then you've no doubt had enough experience to know that when there is writing on the wall, it should be read.

I should mention that this outcry was caused by the latest news on SCOUG's website where ECS is demoed and the open source topic is discussed

Date: 20 Mar, 2003 on 03:41
BigWarpGuy
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2. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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IIRC - when I had a demo of Warp 4, it similar to what you describe (it has been a long time since I used the demo and my memory isn't what it used to be).

PS I have been sending feedback to IBM asking them to open source OS/2 Warp (even if it is only version 3).


OS/2 Warp-ed to the very end.
Date: 20 Mar, 2003 on 14:35
BigWarpGuy
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3. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freeos
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/osfree

http://www.osfree.org

IMHO, there is much help needed to get or keep the momentum going in these groups.


OS/2 Warp-ed to the very end.
Date: 20 Mar, 2003 on 14:38
Kim
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4. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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Reluctant Cynic (Mar 20, 2003 04:41):Open Souce is only worthwhile if the actual operating system is open sourced, otherwise OS2 is dead except in emulation mode. Will IBM or Serenity Systems ever release the operating sytem? Would they commit themselves to a firm date, say 3 years from now when the code will be open sourced? Otherwise there is no hope of any real future for the system.

Problem is that IBM would never be able to release a full version of OS2 since it's just to much code that is copyrighted by other companies (Apple, M$, Adobe, etc...). So this would never happend. But, might be that some parts of the code could be released. I don't know. But, correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone ?

/Kim

Date: 01 Apr, 2003 on 10:47
BigWarpGuy
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5. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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"REXX/OS operating system project reaches first milestone (Posted by Christian Langanke) (js ) The netlabs.org develpers community proudly announces a new project called REXX/OS, intended as the brand new
incarnation of the IBM operating system OS/2, being completely realized using the widely known and proven REXX scripting language. As Adrian Gschwend, founder of netlabs.org states, the project has already reached its first milestone. The kernel, currently hosted in a virtual OS/2 session, successfully boots and basic device drivers are available. A first public preview is available for download from the netlabs.org website. Considering the potential of this revolutionary design for the OS/2 community, netlabs.org is prepared to handle the expected several dozen downloads of this preview. Several screenshots
have also been posted. See the REXX/OS homepage at: http://rexxos.netlabs.org.

URL: http://rexxos.netlabs.org "

Copied from http://en.os2.org .
('April Fools Joke'?, I hope not).


OS/2 Warp-ed to the very end.
Date: 01 Apr, 2003 on 15:20
Sebadoh
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6. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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You obviously didn't read through the entire page.. lol.. "I will soon make it possible to edit files larger then 256bytes" heh.. it is just a joke, as much of a joke as anyone seriously thinking that IBM would open source OS/2. To be honest, while it would be nice to get the kernel, they really don't need to open source the actual os.. the wps is extendable enough to add just about any feature you want, there does need to be some fixes made to it however, which wouldn't be impossible to get IBM to do but at this point in time.. I doubt anything more will come of OS/2, so just keep using it as long as it is worth while for you. On the other hand, every screenshot i've seen of eCS is w/ eCS installed on the machine and if anything is emulated at all it is some other os inside of VPC for OS/2. Which is more or less to show that VPC exists and works.. and isn't vaporware.
Date: 08 Apr, 2003 on 00:50
BigWarpGuy
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7. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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With REXX/OS, many seem to agree with you. I asked at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/os2-netalbs (IIRC on the URL) but there is yet to have a reply.

If I do leave OS/2, it will be to upgrade to eComStation. With what I read about the upgrade, it might not be too long before I do.


OS/2 Warp-ed to the very end.
Date: 08 Apr, 2003 on 15:21
Jason
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8. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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The reason it's always run in an emulator durring the demos is because it's just easier to do it that way and things can be "played with" very quickly and easily. Durring Warpstock Roderick used this to show us the install off his laptop with VPC w/o having to wipe his system in doing so. Also, you can show several different configurations, each with it's own install under VPC instead of lugging around X number of notebooks or setting up multiboot...
Date: 11 Apr, 2003 on 19:52
BigWarpGuy
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9. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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Your reply is very informative. With it still being a Netlabs, one realizes the date is/was just a coincidence.
BigWarpGuy
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Date: 01 Jul, 2003 on 19:46
Oz
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10. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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last updated at 28 Apr, 2004 09:42 (1 times)
It is even stranger that I should be searching for something which is not Open Sourced, I suppose? OSI is as useful as a hole in the head. It is useful only to infants and ADS victims.
What is with this WYSIWYG fetish anyway?
The last thing anybody, who is running a serious business, needs is to be stuffing around with somebody elses code. Or any code for that matter.
Whilst trying to install red hat Linux and wondering why the hell a serious business would be doing this I read the "poster" which said something like this: "Would you buy a car which had the hood welded shut?". My answer would be "YES" !!
Just as long as it does not tell me "use at your own risk". If only cars were that good. How many women want or even need to grub around under the hood of a car. Get yourself a good mechanic, and you will get a life.
I remember the story about the "refrigerator maker who put a glass peep-hole in the door, for those whose who need to be certain that the light goes out when they close the door".
I say again, get a life, get a good Service Provider; one you can trust; one with a reputation for being there, when you need them and above all do apply RISC technology instead of the RISKY type.
Learn from RISC and solve your business problem before you commit to a computer in the first place. It is called planning. A business is not a technology, it's a living thing, it grows and changes. Make sure your tecnology stretches.
IBM learned the lesson the hard way by getting into bed with a goose called Gill Bates.
She may never recover from the loss of her Trusted True Blue image. Perhaps with time and the support of her friends she will recover.
Date: 28 Apr, 2004 on 09:24
warpcafe
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11. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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Hi folks,

the problem of open-sourcing OS/2 in my opinion is not that there's a lot of M$, Apple or whoever involved in it, bur rather "lawyers".
You know, even if IBM decides to open-source all those parts which are not subject to someone elses copyright, they'll open the doors to all those companies which have inferior technology but superior lawyers.
If you can't make money because your product is not good - why not make money by using lawyers to proove that a better product is based on your work?

If IBM would open-source "its" parts of OS/2 (regardless of whether that servers someone or not), it'll be a hell of work to make sure that really all parts belonging to someone else will be taken out. Who pays that efforts?
In addition, someone will surely pop up telling "Oh, now that we were able to take a look at the sources, we found out that *WE* are the company who invented [xyz] first!".
And even if that's not true - it'll cost manpower and money to get involved in such stuff and... and IBM will certainly not cause any such risky situations just for pleasing any kind of community.
However, they surely would do it if there's a chance of earning market shares by killing some competitor... But how to do that with OS/2?
Consumers don't need a stable and reliable system. They want something that is colorful, makes funny sounds and is able to run each and every cheap plastic hardware plugged into without having to read "system requirements" first or checking chipset versions.
And people actually don't buy operating systems - they buy a case, keyboard, mouse etc. and "something which is required to run my [xyz]" - with [xyz] being some game, modem or "office program" without having to ask/pay some third party in order to help them get it done.

Greetings
Thomas

Date: 28 Apr, 2004 on 11:19
ChrisR
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12. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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warpcafe (28 Apr, 2004 11:19):
And people actually don't buy operating systems - they buy a case, keyboard, mouse etc. and "something which is required to run my [xyz]" - with [xyz] being some game, modem or "office program" without having to ask/pay some third party in order to help them get it done.

I do wonder about this actually..
I don't think M$ or whomever gives customers what they realy want (and need?)..
Almost everyone I know and who knows a little about PC's is undressing XP completely, using classic modes and disable all the funny stuff and the services...
People who don't know anything about computers also can't worrk with XP and the PC gets to the attic and is hardly used anymore..
When I start talking with them and fix and undress their PC they get the fun back in it...
Do you realise how many people want the old DOS back?.
They make a lot of effort for it while M$ is blocking it..
Besides XP doesn't support so many hardware anymore, it needs a XP certified driver witch is exactly the same vendor/device number as is in the firmware.. non certified drivers don't work 100%
We have this problem at work.. when you have harware 2021 and you upgrate to hardware 2021A (or install new firmware) you have to get a new XP certified driver or many things stops working..
(this is even true for a monitor/tft)..
When something is working what is not from M$ or not XP certified and they find out about it, they block it in the next update... whatever hardware you buy.. a piece of the money goes to M$..
they can do everything they want, yes, they have great loyers.. its been a long time they cared about their costomers.. they bought VPC and Netscape and whatever and softly killing it:-).
Sooner or later they buy SUN.. and maybe even IBM??
M$ thinks that everyone who runs eCS/linux or whatever is against them and boycotting them ect.. but those people just like an other system.. its M$ own behaviour what makes people angry to them.. and its not only eCS/linux users.. in fact its the opposite !!
Since I'm using XP at work I became against M$ myself.. before they didn't bother me a bit...
It true that most Dutch people think M$ is completely paranoid.. but what can we realy do?...
When one buys a mainboard it comes with XP.. there are mainboards already what needs a special driver to function properly.. figure.. there is only a XP version of this driver..

Chris...

Date: 28 Apr, 2004 on 12:01
Fudeba
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13. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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People,

I think "Open Source OS/2 cannot be done because it has M$ code" is... bullshit. First of all: they could open source WPS at least. This would be a great step and WPS has nothing to do with M$.
Also, they could open source Workplace OS. For God 'sake... WOS base was entirely rewritten based on Mach, it was developed thinking on OS/2 compatibility... Ok, it's not rock solid and it is, at first, PPC only... but it is uK and can be ported back to PC... even for 64 bit PCs. And also could be improved and became even better this OS/2 I'm using now.
I think IBM will not open source it because they know it is good code and they do not want to give it away. That's all. Maybe IBM opensource something, but only if it'll bring revenues to IBM.

Date: 28 Apr, 2004 on 18:12
Zawiah
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14. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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All this reminds me of - was it 96 or 97? Anyway I got this excited call from my supplier - "IBM are releasing an updated Version of SmartSuite for OS/2!" Would I like to preview it? Would I! Send it on up! Then I got.. "Er well, er IBM haven't got a a preview version of SmartSuite for OS/2 ready but I could preview the Windows version?" There was a pause and I said "I don't use Windows. How do I do that?"
"We send you a disc and you configure your PC as a remote server then we run SmartSuite for Windows on your desktop in a Windows NT emulation. Then you can see how good it is and order it?" So I did this and watched a painfully slow version of WordPro paint a document on to my screen, pixel by pixel - then crash the first time I touched a key...
And this was supposed to make me buy softare from IBM!
I bought SmartSuite for Warp 4 because I knew it would be better than that by a mile. Still, I remember when Windows 95 came out and the lady at IBM customer care said "I don't think it will catch on - it's not that good a product."
Anyway. Maybe this is a naive question, but why doesn't someone reverse engineer OS/2? We all know how it looks and feels, there are plenty of software engineers and programmers around - some ex IBM - who know how to do it and there is code that is open source that could be adapted... maybe use the Linux kernal? Oh well... don't all laugh at me... Talking of April fools I still remember that lulu one about "Phoenix - the new 64 bit version of OS/2" that would run anything you put on the desk top. I thought the same then. If that's what people want why don't we all sign up to a "Phoenix Project" and do it? After all, where Windoze is concerned I've always said I could swallow a box of floppies and s*** a better OS! Rant over. Bring on the emulations!
Zawiah
Date: 28 Apr, 2004 on 21:01
BigWarpGuy
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15. Re:Reality or Emulation?
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Instead of trying to open source Warp, perhaps there should be more support of OSFree(?). http://www.osfree.org

..If I do leave OS/2, it will be to upgrade to eComStation. With ..what I read about the upgrade, it might not be too long before I ..do.
I have upgraded to eComStation. It is really great.


BigWarpGuy
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OS/2 Warp-ed/eComStation-ed to the very end.
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Date: 30 Apr, 2004 on 21:58
Reality or Emulation?
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