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Warp desktop limitations
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KP-TRAINS
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1. Warp desktop limitations
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last updated at 18 Oct, 2004 21:19 (4 times)
I use OS/2 primarily because of its DOS capibilities. On my desktop I have two folders, with about thirty folders within these two folders, for each of my clients. Within each of these client folders I have twelve folders, one for each month. Within each month folder, I have program icons(DOS exe shadows) for each program that I use for that client for that month. Somewhere in OS/2 Warp there are desktop limitations that cause it to crash when ever a certain number of icons, on the desktop, is exceeded. My desktop is on drive D. My swap file is on drive H:, and is not full !!! Two years ago this happened and I had to rebuild my desktop from scratch. I wised up a little and started archiving it after that. But now it has reached its limit, and the only way I can operate is to go back to one of the archive desktops and restore the ini files. Does anybody know if I can increase any of the settings in OS/2 to correct this problem ? None of these icon's are data, they are all program (exe) icons. I do not have a fixed number of icons because my client base keeps increasing. As the total number of clients increases so do the icons. Where do I get Unimaint ?
Michael
Date: 12 Oct, 2004 on 16:16
cyberspittle
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2. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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Why are you putting all of this on your desktop? Ideally, the desktop is a work area. Data should be kept in the file system. Putting so much in C:\Desktop creates an archive problem. You need to create a shodow on your desktop (1 icon) to where the top level of your data is kept, perhaps. I am sure other users will provide a better solution. The desktop is where you work.

Microsoft has understood this concept with newer versions of Windows, by having as few icons on the desktop as possible, to increase load times ... for example.

Keeping data on a separate drive might be a good idea too. When upgrading the OS, your data won't be affected by a clean install or other situation.

Keep us posted on your solution.

Date: 12 Oct, 2004 on 21:22
BigWarpGuy
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3. Two Partitions; One Hard Drive!
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Even if there was only one hard drive, one could partition it into two (or more) partitions with operating system on the first partition and data on the second partition. One would keep the data safe even if the first partition was reformatted/clean install of the os.

---
BigWarpGuy
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OS/2 Warp-ed/eComStation-ed to the very end.
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Date: 13 Oct, 2004 on 14:26
phaelonimaire
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4. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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Although keeping your data seporate from your desktop is a nice idea, that does not solve the problem of the desktop crashing. This limitation is not an implimented one. This is a bug. What can we do to fix it?
Date: 14 Oct, 2004 on 19:00
Stuart
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5. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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KP-TRAINS (13 Oct, 2004 00:4:
I use OS/2 primarily because of its DOS capibilities. On my desktop I have two folders with a folder within for each of my clients. Within each of these client folders I have twelve folders, one for each month. Within each month folder I have program icons for each program that I use for that client for that month. Somewhere in OS/2 Warp there are desktop limitations that cause it to crash when ever a certain number of icons, on the desktop, is reached. The drive that my swap file is on is not full !!! Two years ago this happened and I had to rebuild my desktop from scratch. I wised up a little and started archiving it after that. But now it has reached its limit, and the only way I can operate is to go back to one of the archive desktops and restore the ini files. Does anybody know if I can increase any of the settings to correct this problem ? None of this is data, these are all program (exe) icons. All data is kept on a separate drive.

OK, let's look at the problem. All data is on a seperate drive, the drive with the swapfile (presumably the boot drive?) is not full, yet Desktop keeps crashing. The icons in the folders - you say they are exe icons. Are they shadows of (shortcuts to, in Windows speak) actual programs somewhere else, or are they fullcopies of the program? You can tell (if you don't know) by selecting the icon and pressing Alt+Enter (or pick Properties fromthe right-click menu). Are the same programs repeated in each folder? If they are the same program copied many times, this will make c:\desktop a very large folder, and cause your problems (I have the same thing with my d:\download foider which is now holding many Mb of stuff).

Remember that you can have as many shadows of a program (exe) file as you like, each pointing to a different working folder, with different startup parameters, and open them all at once (RAM permitting!), whilst only having one copy of the program in the system.

I suspect this is your problem.

Regards,
Stuart

Date: 14 Oct, 2004 on 22:36
Sebadoh
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6. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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phaelonimaire (14 Oct, 2004 19:00):
Although keeping your data seporate from your desktop is a nice idea, that does not solve the problem of the desktop crashing. This limitation is not an implimented one. This is a bug. What can we do to fix it?

Actually it is not a bug, is a limitation. All operating systems have them and I suspect if you abuse them all in the same ways you will notice them occuring. The desktop is not meant to store large amounts of data, it isn't supposed to have any actual files or programs in it, it is meant to be a means of displaying shadows of applications, or if you do not like to make shadows then Program Objects, which are nothing more then a system ini entry which points to the actual program and the parameters which it needs.

That being said, I have a huge desktop, and store tons of applications in my desktop directory, it also uses several hundred megs to load my desktop. lol. Just today I erased most of the stuff (or copied it off the desktop) and my system uses just 30megs of ram.

Not everything is a bug. sometimes things are just working as deisgned.

Date: 14 Oct, 2004 on 23:30
phaelonimaire
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7. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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Actually it is not a bug, is a limitation.

Not everything is a bug. sometimes things are just working as deisgned.


Limitations are not bugs. Crashing and destroying data because you've exceeded the limitation is something entirely different. Especially when there no warnings or notices of this limitation. You really shouldn't put important data on your desktop. I don't disagree with what you've said. I just believe that limitations should be implemented as such.

Date: 18 Oct, 2004 on 00:14
Cris
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8. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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Hi all.
I do not believe it is a limitation, at least not an intended one. It is more likely a problem of handles accumulating in the INI files that represent the desktop structure.

I think a routinely maintenance to the INI files (with Unimaint or some of the freely available tools) should take care of this.
What I don't understand is why he speaks about "reaching a limit": if I understand it correclty he has a *fixed* numer of folders and icons (although it is a high number), so it shouldn't "reach a limit" over time. Or maybe he is accumulating icons from past years... in this case it would be better to archive them somehow and clear them on a yearly basis.

All other points about putting data in the desktop dir do not apply, since he is *not* doing it (at least judging from the updated message posted on 17/10).

BTW, I'd like to note that he (eventual) limitation is not "crashing and destroying data". It is simply rendering the desktop unusable at a certain point in time.

Bye

Cris

Date: 18 Oct, 2004 on 10:06
RobertM
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9. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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Certain Folder Views may exscaberate this problem. Such as show all in tree... as I believe this awakens tons of objects and there seems to be a limit to the amount of awake objects there can be at a time...

- Rob

Date: 19 Oct, 2004 on 00:04
Cris
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10. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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Hi KP-TRAINS.

Here are a couple links for UniMaint:

http://www.filestar.com/pages/unimaint.html
http://www.bmtmicro.com/BMTCatalog/os2/unimaint.html

BTW, it would be better if you replied to the messages instead of keeping modifying your original post. It would be easier to follow the thread.

Thankyou
Bye

Cris

Date: 19 Oct, 2004 on 14:55
TimC
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11. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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KP-TRAINS (18 Oct, 2004 21:19):
I use OS/2 primarily because of its DOS capibilities. ...
... Somewhere in OS/2 Warp there are desktop limitations that cause it to crash when ever a certain number of icons, on the desktop, is exceeded.
...

What filesystem type are you running in your boot partition? FAT? If so, then you may be seeing a the results of a problem related to the EA's being stored in a single, possibly huge, file on your Boot drive.

Try using HPFS as the filesystem on your Boot drive and this problem may go away.

OS/2 keeps all the EA's for file on FAT drives in a single monolithic file whereas, on an HPFS or JFS drive they're kept with the directory entries for the individual files that own them.

Date: 20 Oct, 2004 on 07:48
cyberspittle
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12. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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The only REAL desktop limitation on OS/2, are the number of Command Windows opened at one time: 12? As to objects being on the desktop, that is limited to memory. But if you are going to archive the desktop, you should have few objects on it to be efficient. I'll say it again, use the desktop for work, store your data in another location. Have shadows to your data on your desktop. Backup your data.
Date: 20 Oct, 2004 on 22:10
davidfor
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13. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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cyberspittle (20 Oct, 2004 22:10):
The only REAL desktop limitation on OS/2, are the number of Command Windows opened at one time: 12?

Where do you get that limitation from? It's been a while, but, I've definately had a lot more than 12 command windows open at once. I'm pretty sure you will find the limit is dependent on memory, and how many windows the user can physically open. I have seen someone mention trying to test a limit like this, and gave up because after opening several hundred windows, he was to bored to go on.

---
David

Date: 25 Oct, 2004 on 03:43
cyberspittle
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14. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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Hey David,

I'm not sure, as I rarely had that many cmd windows open. I think it was written in OS/2 Warp Unleashed. The number 12 may be wrong, but there is supposed to be a limit ... OS/2 memory model, and the amount of memory for each process, I'll have to research it and come back with a definate answer.

Date: 25 Oct, 2004 on 23:29
Sebadoh
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15. Re:Warp desktop limitations
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phaelonimaire (18 Oct, 2004 00:14):


Actually it is not a bug, is a limitation.

Not everything is a bug. sometimes things are just working as deisgned.


Limitations are not bugs. Crashing and destroying data because you've exceeded the limitation is something entirely different. Especially when there no warnings or notices of this limitation. You really shouldn't put important data on your desktop. I don't disagree with what you've said. I just believe that limitations should be implemented as such.


Again, crashing and destroying data is the side effect of not paying attention to the limitation. It says in the OS/2 documention (the paper version if you have it and the inf version which is included with the installation) that the desktop should not be used to store data. How much you actually can hold on it depends on many number of things from file system, file sizes, file types, system memory and more. Like I said, I abuse my desktop and have never managed to exceed it's capacity since OS/2 2.1. (which was more a matter of having just 8megs of ram in that machine)... since then I have come no where close to crashing it.

Date: 26 Oct, 2004 on 00:02
Warp desktop limitations
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