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eCS new prices and policy
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os2power
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1. eCS new prices and policy
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I read the news today Bob St. John say:

The following pricing, in US dollars, goes into effect on March 31,
2005:

Product Price
1.2 $259
1.1-> 1.2 $69
1.0-> 1.2 $129
Warp4-> 1.2 $159
Plus IBM** $99


the rest of his post:

comp.os.os2.ecomstation


the beginning of eCS pay if you want upgrades.

ciao.

Date: 20 Mar, 2005 on 00:54
Fahrvenugen
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2. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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Guess this means that those of us who havn't upgraded yet but have been thinking of it should do so before the price goes up...
Date: 20 Mar, 2005 on 04:50
cyberspittle
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3. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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Too bad there isn't an OEM version available at a reduced price. Windows XP Home OEM can be had at less than $100.00 (plus the cost of a hard drive, CPU, or other "system builder" item). OEM is a full version without retail packaging, etc.

Maybe there should be an entry level version, for example OS/2 Warp 3 (with all fixpacks slipstreamed, Mozilla, EMX, Winos2 Word Viewer , Acrobat Reader 3, etc.). They could sell it at half the Windows equivalent, call it OS/2 Warp 3 Gold. That way we could get more people using OS/2 ... more demand for eCS ... and reduce the price and spread the savings to the rest of us devoted users.

OK, I'll put the crack pipe down ...

Date: 20 Mar, 2005 on 07:55
warpcafe
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4. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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last updated at 21 Mar, 2005 13:41 (1 times)
Hi all,

I'm looking at this from a different point of view - the "software resellers" point of view to be exact (yep, I'm a reseller):

When talking about "new users", we have to be aware that those people who might be interested in eCS are not people without computers but rather people fed up with Redmond stuff. Maybe people who once had OS/2 on their machine.

This means that Serenity should lower the initial "cost" to enable possible customers to install eCS and test-drive it for let's say one month (or two).
Currently, I am unable to "legally" install an evaulation copy of eCS on a customers machine. Do you think that someone that might be interested in eCS (and who has no previous version of whatever eCs or OS/2) will pay 259 bucks for a test drive?

The risk of finding yourself with a product that you find not suitable is too high at that price. Why not distribute a version that is "free" and requires some kind of activation.
How about a time-limited test drive CD that one could use as give-away or even be included in pc magazines?

I think the time has come for Serenity and Mensys to not only concentrate on technics and features but also to think about ways of distribution.
That's not a simple task: Besides a reseller network it will require a working support organisation for customers. If you want people to buy a product from a manufacturer, you can't tell them to join community newsgroups in order to get support if e.g. the install doesn't work. You have to provide support to some extent at least.

From the roadmap I read that there will be a reseller workshop. I already heard about that idea back in November last year during warpstock europe and I'm glad they did not forget about it am looking forward to it. We definitely need that if we want more people to run eCS.
A larger customer base might also mean that the cost for new editions will not be paid only by those who already bought 2 other versions from Serenity.

Greetings!
Thomas

Date: 21 Mar, 2005 on 13:39
Fahrvenugen
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5. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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last updated at 21 Mar, 2005 17:53 (1 times)
I agree with the need for a low-cost evaluation copy which can be installed to let people try out eCs for a period of time before shelling out $259. From what I understand, one of the hurdles to offering this is licensing restrictions from IBM. I could be wrong on this, but apparently Serenity can create "demo" CD's which don't install anything on a user's HD, but not something which can actually be *used* in a production environment for any length of time.

I also agree that there does need to be a clearly defined support organization. While seasoned OS/2 users are used to finding support through community sources (when I first started with OS/2 back in 1995 and ran into problems installing, while I did call IBM for help, it was on an OS/2 channel on IRC where I finally found the answer to the issue I was having), to ask a new user to just "join the newsgroups or list serves" really isn't very reassuring.

As for the earlier comment about an "entry level Warp 3" product, I've actually offered this a few times in some of the consulting work that I've done. At times when I've known that an OS/2 solution is the best option for a task which needs to be done, yet a client is uneasy about going with an OS/2 based solution, I've suggested Warp 3 - it is available for very little - usually $10 or less through auctions on ebay and such. At one point I even had a few spare unopened copies of Warp 3 Connect available on the shelf which I'd picked up in various "bargain bins" at computer stores trying to get rid of old stock. With enough installations of FP's, alternative device drivers (such as Danis506), and updates, it can be made to work on most new hardware. Admittedly I don't recommend this for people who either have little patience or havn't had much experience with OS/2. Getting the original copy of Warp 3 or Warp Connect up and running on today's hardware is not an easy task after all! If the solution works well for the customer and they want to later upgrade to a newer version - eCs is available. If they don't like the solution and after a while still want to go with something based on another OS, that can be done too with the knowledge that there was a minimal cost in the "OS/2 experiment".

Mind you, I havn't recommended Warp 3 for a desktop / workstation use - even though admittedly I still have a laptop which is running 3. For that the better option is eCs or Warp 4. Limitations in Warp 3 make it not the best choice for today as a desktop (for example, Odin doesn't work very well under 3, no UDF support, plug and play cards don't always work well, USB can be tricky to get working, PCMCIA can be tricky, no JFS).

Anyways, just some thoughts...

Date: 21 Mar, 2005 on 17:49
cyberspittle
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6. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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I proposed OS/2 Warp 3, only so that it would allow the future customer to salivate enough to want to move forward with the decision to with eCS in the end. The price has to be low enough to get the foot in the door. However, Warp 4 would be to competitive with eCS, as eCS is built upon a newer version of it. OS/2 Warp 3 has a nostolgic feel to it, but would need to be installable on newer hardware. Hence, my proposal.
Date: 21 Mar, 2005 on 17:59
RadarCat
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7. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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cyberspittle (20 Mar, 2005 07:55):
Too bad there isn't an OEM version available at a reduced price. Windows XP Home OEM can be had at less than $100.00 (plus the cost of a hard drive, CPU, or other "system builder" item). OEM is a full version without retail packaging, etc.

Maybe there should be an entry level version, for example OS/2 Warp 3 (with all fixpacks slipstreamed, Mozilla, EMX, Winos2 Word Viewer , Acrobat Reader 3, etc.). They could sell it at half the Windows equivalent, call it OS/2 Warp 3 Gold. That way we could get more people using OS/2 ... more demand for eCS ... and reduce the price and spread the savings to the rest of us devoted users.


This sounds reasonable to me.

---
RadarCat, Webmaster
http://www.os2warplinks.com

Date: 21 Mar, 2005 on 20:08
phaelonimaire
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8. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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The company I work for uses OS/2 Warp v4 (upgrade from v3) as the base OS for our embedded products. If I remember correctly, the biggest cost for OS/2 is that IBM is still charging over $100 for it.. Anything on top of that, including eCS, has to include that price.. It's unfortunate since I would be able to push more products on the OS/2 platform if it were cheaper. We were going to go with eCS on our faster boxes, but have since canned the entire project.
I also remember being told by the distributer we get our copies from that after late 2004, IBM was going to stop selling OS/2 licenses. I'm not sure on this as we outsourced our production to another company two years ago.
Date: 22 Mar, 2005 on 01:32
Fahrvenugen
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9. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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phaelonimaire (22 Mar, 2005 01:32):
I also remember being told by the distributer we get our copies from that after late 2004, IBM was going to stop selling OS/2 licenses.

IBM still does sell licenses through Passport Advantage, and from what I understand they still have volume licensing available too. As you have noted, it is quite expensive and they really seem to be discouraging end-users (and others too) from buying the product. Even just reading the IBM OS/2 website it is difficult to figure out how to buy the product. Clicking on the "how to buy" link on IBM's OS/2 page brings you to a page where you can:

1) search the business partners directory. following this link bring you to another page where OS/2 is not listed on any of the pull down menus.

2) you can access the "software catalogue" online - both the "medium and growing business" and the "large enterprise" versions. Neither catalogue mention OS/2 (at least I can't find mention of the product)

3) Order the catalogue (presumably the same catalogues as above)

4) Order publications

In order to get OS/2 from IBM, you need to know to 1) sign up for Passport Advantage, 2) log into the PA website and search for the OS/2 product, and 3) purchase it through PA. Nowhere that I can find on the "official" IBM OS/2 websites does it clearly state this. If IBM really wanted to sell the product, I would think they'd make it easier to figure out how to buy... But that's just my opinion...

Date: 22 Mar, 2005 on 15:48
phaelonimaire
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10. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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last updated at 22 Mar, 2005 18:51 (1 times)
We had set ourselves up as an IBM reseller, but for some reason I don't think we were able to purchase it directly. Next time I talk to one of the guys over there, I'll mention it and find out some more details.
Can you still purchase v3?
Date: 22 Mar, 2005 on 18:50
warpcafe
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11. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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phaelonimaire (22 Mar, 2005 18:51):
Can you still purchase v3?

Yes!
look here: www.ebay.com
(just kidding...)

No, you can't - at least you can't get them from IBM. But that doesn't mean anything. I wasn't able to buy any version of my Warps from BigBlue. I wasn't even able to get my Warp4 registered without THREE faxes and two emails to the european registration centre in Denmark.

You know - I think that company does not deserve to be "affiliated" with that great operating system anymore!

Greetings
Thomas

Date: 22 Mar, 2005 on 20:45
cyberspittle
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12. Re:eCS new prices and policy
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OS/2 Warp from IBM is hard to find even on it's OS/2 Warp web pages. If you really want OS/2 with the convenience package (1 year subscription, etc.), look no farther than www.mensys.nl. If you compare the price to eCS, you'll quickly see that eCS is the better product.

As to OS/2 Warp 3 being available, IBM stopped supporting it years ago. New versions in retail packaging can be had on eBay (among other internet sites), but it is hassle to install on it's own (update install disks or use old hardware (recycle instead of contaminate the refuse pile?)). It would be cool to have an up to date version, which can be done on your own with the source, a CD burner, and UpCD (I haven't used it).

Well, that about does it.

Date: 23 Mar, 2005 on 17:47
eCS new prices and policy
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