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Using Grub as Boot Manager
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Junior
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1. Using Grub as Boot Manager
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Hi all,

New to this so please be patient Just bought newish second hand computer - Celeron 2.4Ghz. Have been using old 486 DX4-100 for years running Warp4 to do basic office work etc. Anyway, been dabbling around with SLED10 and other Linux distros. Managed to get WinXP, Warp4 installed but when installing SLED10 - Grub as boot manager overrides W4. Can't seem to get W4 Boot Manager to see SLED10 partions and vice versa. Grub also pain to uninstall, end up reinstalling WinXP and W4. Require XP for internet connection cos have special wireless modem, still haven't figured out how new tech stuff works- been big jump ahead from old 486! W4 seriously flies now!! As nicely graphical Linux is and all bundled software- its missing that certain something- something GR8 bout OS/2 that keeps me coming back to using it. Probably sounds like i come out from stone age, but even WinXP seems to have progressed a little from '95.

Any feedback would be much appreciated, will also attempt getting some time in to put my share of lil knowledge i have posted.

Many thanks,

PS are any other South Africans out there still Warping?


Gr8 OS still Alive 'n Kickin!
Date: 25 Nov, 2006 on 23:38
obiwan
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2. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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Just abandon the Warp boot manager and chainload your Warp 4 partition with GRUB. I do it. Here's an example grub.conf entry:

code:

title OS/2
root (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader +1

Date: 26 Nov, 2006 on 01:41
Junior
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3. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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Thanks obiwan,

Will give it a try soon i can. Great forum

Date: 26 Nov, 2006 on 09:47
Kim
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4. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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Another boot loader would be AirBoot; worth trying out if you still have problem with Grub.
Date: 26 Nov, 2006 on 17:09
El Vato
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5. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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last updated at 28 Nov, 2006 17:15 (3 times)

Junior (25 Nov, 2006 23:3:

[...] - Grub as boot manager overrides W4.


The reason Grub is overwriting your Boot Manager is because you
allowed the default SuSE's Grub installation to be on /dev/hda
(or /dev/hdb, if you are installing on your second IDE hard
disk), please see example SuSE installation screen -where I have
selected the top tab labeled: expert:
http://www.chingonazo.com/suseGrubDefault.JPG

Selecting (by "clicking") with your mouse the underlined option
Booting, will take you to the screen:
http://www.chingonazo.com/suseGrubDefault1.JPG

where you have to manually select which of your partitions (for
example, /dev/hda7 in my specific example) to conatain the Linux
Grub boot manager/loader. Simply select the appropriate (round)
radio button:
http://www.chingonazo.com/suseGrubDefault2.JPG

Afterward, proceed a normal installation of your SuSE Linux
--like you did before. You will find that your OS/2 Boot Manager
is where it installs (also by default --like Grub) at the
beginning of your hard drive.


Junior (25 Nov, 2006 23:3:
Can't seem to get W4 Boot Manager to see SLED10 partions and
vice versa.

For OS/2 Warp Boot Manager to "see" the Linux created partitions,
you have to "show" them to it. Lack of understanding of the
intricacies of the OS/2 Boot Manager is no reason --from my
perspective-- to simply ditch it in favour of another one.

Many moons ago, IBM detailed a procedure to update an Merlin W4
to an Logical Volume Management (LVM) enhanced version. Among the
changes was that of an updated FDISK.COM utility to be compatible
with the LVM provided Boot Manager. Note that after the LVM
compatible Boot Manager installation, the only time that the
FDISK.COM utility is to be used (if at all) is only to set your
partition installable.

IBM has open sourced some portions of the LVM system:
http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-19-014-20-NW-EL-HE

(Hint, hint...OS/2's source might be open sourced if the angle couuld be pitched to IBM that was in line with Big Blue's open source strategy --my perspective).

There were also detailed procedures to booting the system in
normal mode with modified diskettes, subsequently changing to an
LVM enhanced system with the IBM provided files. Notwithstanding,
I can not locate the the URLs anymore.

In the interest of advancing characteristic features that provide
OS/2 its unique identity, I will show some steps that somone with
access to those enhanced Warp 4 files and instructions might have
achieved after burning a basic (and tiny) 3Mb bootable CD-image( based in information provided at http://www.goldencode.com/atlos2/notes/bootcd/bootcd.html ). The CD boot
image is shown in an OS/2 VirtualPC image containig Open SuSE.
The LVM enhanced OS/2 Boot Manager is set to control the Linux
image partition (I use it in my actual multiboot machines --
cramming sometimes 4 or 5 operating systems).

This is how the boot image refenced before would boot in an
actual physical machine (once the 3Mb OS2Boot.raw image was
burned into a physical CD-media).

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2.JPG

After being taken to an OS/2 prompt, I type: goLvm.cmd and I am
taken to a Logical view of the existing drives:

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5LogView.JPG

Note that "nothing" exists thus far, with the exception of the
placeholders. Notwithstanding, pressing F5 takes one to a
Physical view of the drives. Note the primary Linux (/boot)
partition (100Mb) and the extended ones containig the Linux root
(/) and the swap files.

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5.JPG

Pressing F5 again, one returns to the first LVM view where, the
first thing one would do is delete the old boot manager by
selecting it from the menu (after pressig the ENTER key).

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5InstBM.JPG

That is followed by installing the LVM enabled OS/2 Boot Manager,
again, by selecting it from the menu.

Then the Linux (or any other one, as a matter of fact) is added
by selecting to create a volume from the menu:

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5CreatNewBootVol.JPG

...label it as Linux and assign a drive letter to it:

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5CreatLLinux.JPG

One is prompted to select a disk (if there is more than one
physical one, here is where the desired logical volume is to be
created):

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5CreatChooseDisk.JPG


Since in this case an existing physical partition is to be added
to the LVM Boot Manager, that is the option to be selected from
the menu:

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5CreatChoosExistingPart.JPG

One enters the name for the physical partition:

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5CreatChoosEnterName.JPG

And the procedure of adding the Linux partition is completed by
pressing ENTER:

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5CreatChoosEnterFinish.JPG

Note the ? in the file system type. Although the OS/2 Boot Manager does not recognize the file system as being RaiserFS, it will still boot that partition.

http://www.chingonazo.com/suseUpdate1cfdisk.JPG

After pressing F3, one selects to save the changes:

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2F5F3Save.JPG

Then, one can observe that the Merlin's enhanced LVM is able to
boot Linux:

http://www.chingonazo.com/enhancedOS2SuSEAdded.JPG

Note that although the partitions in the VPC/2 image are
relatively close to the beginning of the disk, I am using the
OS/2 Boot Manager to boot partitions on a 120Gig, as an example.

If you continue lost with Grub, let me know if you want to give a
try to the 3Mb OS2Boot.raw image that you could subsequently burn
into a CD-media (preferably recordable only once, since you
mentioned that your machine is oldie and BIOS might refuse to
boot). I will make the image available to you for download upon
your request. Please note that I make no guarantee that your
problems will be over with the image of the LVM enhanced OS/2 --
the image would be provided as is and you would opt to use it at
your own risk.


Junior (25 Nov, 2006 23:3:Grub also pain to uninstall, end up reinstalling WinXP and
W4.

Grub has a manpage for its management. At a Linux prompt, type:
man grub

Notwithstanding, to reinstall your Grub into another partition,
you would type at the command prompt (under SuSE and being root):

grub-install /dev/hdaX

where you replace X by your actual partiton number where you want
to install your Grub Boot Manager/Loader --of course if your
Linux partition is on a second hard disk, that would be:

grub-install /dev/hdbX

[...]


Junior (25 Nov, 2006 23:3:Any feedback would be much appreciated, will also attempt getting
some time in to put my share of lil knowledge i have posted.

Many thanks,

PS are any other South Africans out there still Warping?


Date: 28 Nov, 2006 on 14:19
obiwan
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6. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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Would one need to have purchased a Software Choice subscription to get LVM capability, or can that be downloaded freely?
Date: 04 Dec, 2006 on 23:27
El Vato
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7. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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obiwan (04 Dec, 2006 23:27):
Would one need to have purchased a Software Choice subscription to get LVM capability, or can that be downloaded freely?

...No Software Choice subscription was needed. IBM, apparently, simpy wanted to integrate better Merlin with their newer LVM.

Notwithstanding, niether Warp 3 client nor the server (SMP and otherwise) based on the Warp 3 kernel but marketed as Warp 4 Server, appear to be able to support LVM.

When I retrofitted those former Warp versions, all I got were crashes.

...the doscall1.dll (during the booting process) appeared to be incompatible to begin with --or perhaps was symptom when in reality the os2krn was the actual cause

Date: 05 Dec, 2006 on 01:52
obiwan
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8. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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It sounds very enticing, but I can't find the LVM support available for download anywhere. The IBM site has it but expects a login and password.
Date: 05 Dec, 2006 on 04:48
El Vato
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9. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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last updated at 05 Dec, 2006 13:16 (2 times)
Good morning, my dear fan of Chewbacca!

Today must be your lucky day (for LVM stuff, of course!). Thank you for refreshing my memory.

I happened to be doing some time consuming task in one of my Debian Linux partitions until this late (or morning for others); I decided to mount my older storage partitions looking for a related issue that I will be doing in the future.

There, in the expanded directory, were the main files that are needed for the LVM hack on Merlin. The files needed are expartcp.exe and expartw4.exe. Those are self executables that you need to expand SEQUENTIALLY (i.e. order matters) stated below (VERY IMPORTANT to allow the second expansion of files FORMAT.COM and OS2DASD.DMD to overwrite the ones initially expanded when the utility prompts you about it):

expartcp.exe -d
expartw4.exe -d

Note: the switch (or option) " -d " is simply appended to the respective self executable files to expand directory paths --in case there are any.

After I recognized the needed files, all was "peachy." All I did was to do a search for their name on the Web. That is what I recommend that you do.

Notwithstanding, the following few initial pages have a link to downlad them:

http://www.scoug.com/OS24U/2002/SCOUG209.DOWNLOAD.HTML
http://www2.ellermann-online.de/Filelist/area42.html
http://tapsa.terae.net/os2/programs/
http://www.warpupdates.mynetcologne.de/english/hard_largeata.html

and the following linky will set you in the mood to begin your masochist OS/2 endeavor

http://sysadminforum.com/t71550.html

Elaborating about it, our friend from S. Africa can use the same information provided in this last post to learn about OS/2 instead of hand holding him by offering a bootable LVM solution --i.e., I am taking myself off the hook where I placed myself priorly.

Cheers !

P.S. This is the Novell's OpenSuSE Linux equivalent LVM implementation: http://www.chingonazo.com/suseGuiLVM.JPG

Date: 05 Dec, 2006 on 13:02
Junior
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10. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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Hi El Vato and obiwan,

Thankyou both very much for your most detailed and extensive help
Its nearing end of year and I'm sure you both understand how busy and hectic things get, but will certainly try out your approach during my leave period early next year. Think I'll first make space on old 486 to create a bootable cd for newer system and take it from there as I've found backing up and installing multiple OS's can take as much as a whole weekend!

Are there any advantages to using LVM? and also, is that got to do with the new/ish Journaled File System? Vaguely remember in the past that its quite different to using HPFS, FAT or remotely similar file systems. For interest - I've still got an old '82 XT that's still doing our companies payroll and accounting packages! Last upgrade was to Dos 5.5! With close on 30,000 invoices and weekly payslips all up to date in the last 15 years our small company been in business- its only used up 5MB of 20MB avail hard disk space- pretty amazing what they could do with limited space and processing power in those days... sometimes think they've gone backwards when I go to suppliers and wait for what seems an eternity for simple statement or invoice from their M$ Windoze apps.

Anyway,

All the best for the Festive Season

You guys rock!

Date: 05 Dec, 2006 on 20:33
OriAl
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11. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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Might as well move my Airboot-Grub issue into this thread, and separate it from the hardware thread. Please note that I know nothing about Linux -.a bbs friend from the echoes, knowing of my desire to avoid M$ if possible, and having read my lament of not having all the plugins I'd like for eCS browsers, sent me CDs of Ubuntu 5.10 last year and suggested I try it. After a long thread on installing it, after checking it out on the Live CD which makes no changes to my system, I tried to install it to my slave drive. I told it to use that drive for the install, and all seemed to be going well, but then it reported that it was installing Grub on the master drive, and I had no way to stop it. That killed my main eCS boot partition, and scrambled the partition table on the drive so I couldn't access the second eCS boot partition (a clone of the first) or the rarely used Win98SE partition, and Grub did not recognize either as installs of other OSes. Jan van Wilk eventually was able to send me a DFSEE script to restore the partition table, but then I discovered that all the data on that drive had been scrambled - tried to boot eCS from the second partiition, but the boot was not successful, and on the reboot, Chkdsk was finding problems with seemingly every file on the boot partition and data partitions. Trying to boot Win98SE also was fruitless. Fortunately, I found a working set of Fastback crash recovery disks, and, after I reformatted the master drive, I restored eCS from the backup I'd made just before trying the Ubuntu install. All was well again with eCS (Win98 was gone, but WinXP was recently installed in its place, for my occasional boots to it.)

While the master drive was hosed, my friend disconnected it temporarily, and we installed Ubuntu, Grub partition and all, on the slave (I used Thunderbird for Linux to communicate with Jan and a few other people whose addresses I remembered - I normally use MR/2 ICE for e-mail, so I had no Thunderbird experience.) Anyhoo, this is how the situation currently stands - eCS, WinXP, and lots of free space on the master drive, Ubuntu 5.10 and Grub on the 20 gig slave, and Airboot as the boot manager. Airboot finds the two eCS boot partitions and the WinXP partition (which I had to move to enlarge using DFSEE - XP takes up much more disk space than 98. Airboot still lists it as the third partition, I guess because it's the third primary partition), and recognizes the Grub partition on the second drive as Linux, but when I select that partition to boot, nothing happens. The Airboot web page says Airboot has Linux kernel support from Fat 16 partition. The Grub partition is ext/2, so I presume that's why nothing happens when I select it.

Does this mean I need to reinstall Ubuntu, and somehow tell it to make the Grub partition Fat16? I have no clue. I know Ubuntu has had two upgrades since 5.10, so, if a reinstall is needed, I'd download a CD image of 6.06. I presume I'd have to download the advanced version, so it can be told to STAY AWAY from the master drive? How would I do an install to the slave drive to make Linux bootable from Airboot, and not have my the data on my master drive destroyed again, other than doing the install with the master disconnected? I'm extremely nervous about Linux since the first disaster.

Thanks as always for any help.

---
Alan

Nerve Center BBS tncbbs.no-ip.com FidoNet 1:261/1000

Date: 10 Feb, 2007 on 21:40
obiwan
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12. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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I can't blame you for being wary of Linux after such an experience. I am so glad you had backups.

I don't think Ubuntu will make a fat16 boot partition, but that shouldn't really be a problem. The latest stable Ubuntu is actually 6.10. Upgrading to the latest version would seem a good idea.

Unplugging the master drive to install is ok, because I can help you manually install Grub afterward. The alternate install CD might actually work with the all the drives in place though, and save some trouble, because it claims to allow installing Grub to other locations. Unfortunately the documentation is incomplete on the procedure, and I don't have time to try it out.

See the boot partition by default is not bootable, because the installer puts Grub on the MBR instead. What you want to do is tell the installer to install Grub not on the MBR but on the boot partition. That way it will load when AirBoot boots that partition.

By using the "alternate install CD" at least you can tell it not to do anything, to avoid damaging your master drive. If it is not clear how to install Grub to the boot partition in the installer, just select not to install a boot manager, and I will be glad to help you manually install Grub.

Date: 11 Feb, 2007 on 01:15
OriAl
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13. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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I downloaded the alternate response CD image for Ubuntu 6.06, as the page said that version has support. I wrote the CD. That is how things currently stand.
Date: 12 Feb, 2007 on 23:11
OriAl
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14. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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last updated at 26 Mar, 2007 22:39 (1 times)
Just wanted to bring this back to life, in case anyone has figured out an answer for me. I still have the 6.06 alternate CD (if I get 6.06 installed, I figure Ubuntu will tell me there's an upgrade, and let me download and install it.) The Win98SE that was destroyed has been replaced with WinXP, which turned out to almost fill the partition, so I used DFSEE to move the partition and resize it from 3 gig to 10 gig - Airboot still found it, so I can boot eCS or XP, but still not Linux.

So, what do I do? The 20 gig slave with 5.10 remains unaccessible from Airboot. I suppose if I tell the bios to boot from the slave, Grub will appear and send me on to Ubuntu Linux 5.10, which will then tell me to upgrade. Would doing this and allowing it to upgrade only touch the Linux drive, or would Grub again be installed on the master and screw things up again? Or would Grub see the other OSes on the master and a) know to leave that drive alone, and b) add the two OSes to its menu and allow me to boot eCS, XP. and Linux?

Does Linux have to have Grub to boot, or could I just install 6.06 on the slave without Grub, and either use Airboot or try to learn IBM's boot manager, which I'm told can be installed anywhere on the master drive, thus it wouldn't harm my eCS boot partition, which is at the beginning of the drive.

Thanks as always for any help.

As I said before. since my first experience I am very afraid of playing with Linux, though others who know more seem to do so without killing their systems. I really want to see what Linux is, though I am clueless about tar and all that stuff.

Important note, in case this was missed - while my master drive was hosed, I did have my computer fixing friend disconnect it (I'm disabled, so I couldn't), and installed Ubuntu 5.10, Grub and all, on the slave. I had to install it, as I needed Internet access to converse with Jan about DFSEE and what he'd suggest. I used Firefox that came with Ubuntu, and added Thunderbird for e-mail.

Date: 26 Mar, 2007 on 22:28
obiwan
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15. Re:Using Grub as Boot Manager
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OriAl (26 Mar, 2007 22:39):
Just wanted to bring this back to life, in case anyone has figured out an answer for me. I still have the 6.06 alternate CD (if I get 6.06 installed, I figure Ubuntu will tell me there's an upgrade, and let me download and install it.)

Sorry, I was waiting for you to try installing with the CD, taking care either to tell it to install GRUB on the Linux partition or not at all, and post your results. I can only advise after either doing it myself or reading what happens when you try.


So, what do I do? The 20 gig slave with 5.10 remains unaccessible from Airboot. I suppose if I tell the bios to boot from the slave, Grub will appear and send me on to Ubuntu Linux 5.10, which will then tell me to upgrade. Would doing this and allowing it to upgrade only touch the Linux drive, or would Grub again be installed on the master and screw things up again? Or would Grub see the other OSes on the master and a) know to leave that drive alone, and b) add the two OSes to its menu and allow me to boot eCS, XP. and Linux?

I can't tell you exactly what the installer will do. My suggestion is to boot to the Alternate Install CD and from there either upgrade or let it destroy Ubuntu 5.10 and install v. 6.06. I think this would best be done with the drives setup as they are, the way you intend to use the system. It is supposed to let you put GRUB where you want. There is no harm in backing out of the installer to post questions about it if you are unsure. As I said before, moving the drive to the master position can be done, but only for copying the operating system to the drive. It would almost certainly have to be reconfigured in order to boot properly after it is moved back to the slave position.


Does Linux have to have Grub to boot, or could I just install 6.06 on the slave without Grub, and either use Airboot or try to learn IBM's boot manager, which I'm told can be installed anywhere on the master drive, thus it wouldn't harm my eCS boot partition, which is at the beginning of the drive.

IBM's BM won't boot Linux without a bootloader like GRUB. I don't know about AirBoot. GRUB really would seem to be the best choice for this application, the problem for you is with the interface to it provided by Ubuntu's installer.


As I said before. since my first experience I am very afraid of playing with Linux, though others who know more seem to do so without killing their systems. I really want to see what Linux is, though I am clueless about tar and all that stuff.

I don't blame you, but again in my opinion the problem you had was with the Ubuntu installer.

Date: 27 Mar, 2007 on 06:42
Using Grub as Boot Manager
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