Author Topic: Blue Lion Beta testing...  (Read 3831 times)

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2017, 08:19:16 am »
Maybe someone will answer your questions. I signed an agreement with Arca Noae that says I won't disclose the details of what I'm testing.

Since you already know everyone who is working on the project, and what they are doing, I think you can pretty much guess what will be in the 5.0 release.

Hi Neil,

unfortunately it is not like this. As I do know some People involved in this Project I have no other or more  Information than what is provided on the Arca Noae Webpage or during the Warpstock presentations (-Videos). Otherwise I would/may not have asked.

From that sources the Information for me says: we want to, we might, it is possible that.... But nothing fixed regarding my three questions.

It is a pitty - I can not remember any other operating System I use/did use (OS/2 since Warp 3, Windows since 3.11...) making such a mystery what is included in beta stages (well, Alpha stage is another Story) - except of one: eComStation 2.0. Where that lead us to is a sad story...

Usually it was allways the other way round - coming to beta stage (I like the Warp 4 Merlin Beta very much) did give quite a good overview what to expect.

Anyway, I will not ask any more, keep this file Close. But I doubt that using the same Information policy in that case like Mensys/xeu is a good way to go.

But please do not misunderstand - thanks for your Reply!

Andi B.

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 10:07:00 am »
@Sigurd - why don't you simple email Lewis at AN? Did you offer yourself as beta tester? I mean directly per email or phone not in this group where we all know no one from AN reads it. Probably no one here knows exactly what will be in the first release. I guess not even Lewis and David does exactly. But that's only a personal opinion.

We all know you own a lot of different systems and you've a lot of experience in installing on them. Maybe AN will give you access to the beta.

I don't have any facts about your questions but I guess there is no substantial progress in any of that fields. Best bet for some progress would be on Multimac/WiFi IMHO. Of course I would be happy if I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 12:01:28 pm by Andi B. »

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2017, 11:42:48 am »
@Sigurd - why don't you simple email Lewis at AN? Did you offer yourself as beta tester?

- EMail: I did not mail because I did not want to waste their rare time for this, I thought that there are some testers around wich might answer as it seemed to me to be a very easy answer for those, taking part in beta test (simply YES or NO in first case). I was not Aware of the Beta being something "100% closed" (Top secret)

- Beta Tester: I did this the last time at Warpstock Europe last year when I met Lewis for the first time ((and the year before I talked about the same subject with Roderick Klein and (if I remember correctly) with David A. while he found a bug when working with my Sony Vaio Pro 13 at Warpstock Europe 2015)). I did not want to ask to often as I got no response.

Anyway - as I wrote before, there is no need for me to get the Information anymore. Thanks
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 12:01:57 pm by Sigurd Fastenrath »

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2017, 12:07:57 pm »
We all know you own a lot of different systems and you've a lot of experience in installing on them. Maybe AN will give you access to the beta.

In fact I will sell most of them in the next weeks, despite some - for me - really nice and important Laptops (IBM Transnote, ThinkPad 701c "Butterfly", ThinkPad X41, Sony Vaio Pro 13).

For daily use a have a Surface Pro 4 i7 16GB RAM since a while and I am very happy with it.

Joseph M. Kempf

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2017, 01:11:01 pm »
Quote
It is good to hear that you are beta testing on AMD CPUs.   In my experience UEFI is the biggest roadblock when installing eCS 2.2b2 on modern hardware.

Can you describe the problems, so I can test for them?

I didn't have any trouble installing eCS 2.2b2 to my A6 with UEFI. The only problem that I had installing to my Lenovo ThinkPad L530 (Intel) with UEFI, is that I need the QSINIT loader to have access to more than 512 meg of memory. Sound doesn't work properly in either one, but that is UniAud, not eCS 2.2b2 itself. ArcaOS beta is still waiting for a new UniAud (don't know what will be in the GA).

I had to go into the motherboard 'bios' and switch the motherboard to 'Legacy Mode' to install eCS 2.2b2 on my ASRock 970 Extreme3 R2.0.  No surprise there I expect.  The CPU is an 8 core FX 8320E.  The harddrive is a SATA 3 SSD.  The onboard NIC works and I'm happy with the machine's performmance for now.

Quote
Installing eCS 2.2b2 directly on the TP E555 was impossible though.  My workaround was to do the install on a SSD in a Thinkpad EDGE E525 and then to remove the SSD and reinstall the SSD in my TP E555.

I suspect that may have something to do with the SSD. I don't have one of them, but I do know that boot timing, on faster systems, can cause problems. SSD speeds it up even more, so it is entirely possible that something messes up during boot. So far, I haven't seen any hint of boot timing problems, with ArcaOS, but that depends on the hardware, and I haven't tested with all of my systems, yet.

Again I had to go into the motherboard 'bios' and switch the motherboard to 'Legacy Mode'.  Thereafter three problems arose during installation on the Lenovo TP E555:
1) Loading of the virtual floppies into RAM would stall around 2/3rd the time on varying installation disks (1st, 2nd or 3rd),
2) There was a problem with selection of system drivers (I forget the details), and
3) Either the onboard laptop keyboard or the laptop touchpad would not work, sometimes both, sometimes the problem would switch from one device to the other.


I ended up disabling the two USB3 ports and reverted to USB2 in 'bios', attached USB keyboard and USB mouse but was unable to access a USB floppy drive to load in the eCS key.  Only two USB devices worked at a time.

Alex Taylor

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2017, 01:36:37 pm »
Sigurd,

NDAs are just standard practice for closed beta testing. More to the point, I think Neil and the others are being mindful of not wanting to speak for Arca Noae.

You can certainly ask Arca Noae if you can join the testing group.  (I don't know if more members are being solicited at this time, but asking is pretty much a free action.)  However, asking about hardware support in a particular beta release isn't really useful if you're not actually going to be using that beta.  Beta-cycle software is by definition a moving target, so predicting the state of driver versions in the final release based on the contents of a beta is not really scientific.

The drivers you mention are, TTBOMK, all in the development queue. Generally speaking, once updated versions of these (and other) drivers are considered stable to Arca Noae's satisfaction, they will be released.

Arca Noae's drivers are released through the subscription service; I would say it's safe to assume that ArcaOS 5.0 will also include the most up-to-date versions at the time of release.

Dariusz Piatkowski

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2017, 04:18:22 pm »
...My question was based on the problems a few people have mentioned here about eCS and 6 core AMD processors and the fact that most off the shelf machines come with Intel processors.

An ancient AMD Phenom II X6 here (1100T), but only workable with 5 cores, the 6th one causes the dreaded "Blue Screen of Boot Death"...LOL...mind you, not all the time, but too often altogether, to the point where attempting to boot with one is almost always a miss.

Pete

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2017, 06:23:30 pm »
Hi All

In a recent email to Lewis I offered my services as a beta tester. His response was, basically, along the lines of: thank you for the offer but we already have a test group with a range of hardware and use cases but if we need some more testers will let you know.

So I guess there is no harm in anyone sending an email and offering their services just in case AN need to increase their test group size.


@Dariusz
Do all 6 cores run fine under Windows and/or linux? - If not maybe you have an X5 with the dead core switched on.


Regards

Pete

Doug Bissett

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2017, 07:40:42 pm »
Quote
I had to go into the motherboard 'bios' and switch the motherboard to 'Legacy Mode' to install eCS 2.2b2 on my ASRock 970 Extreme3 R2.0.  No surprise there I expect.

I believe that is a listed requirement. Yes, you do need to use "Legacy Mode". This is an old OS after all.

Quote
1) Loading of the virtual floppies into RAM would stall around 2/3rd the time on varying installation disks (1st, 2nd or 3rd),

I haven't seen any problems with that, so far. Of course, I never saw a problem with that before either.

Quote
2) There was a problem with selection of system drivers (I forget the details)

Since it is a new installer, it will need extensive testing.

Quote
3) Either the onboard laptop keyboard or the laptop touchpad would not work, sometimes both, sometimes the problem would switch from one device to the other.

I haven't tried on a laptop, yet. I will keep this in mind. If I get my way, the touchpad will be turned off, but that is irrelevant for testing. My Lenovo ThinkPad T510 has a switch in BIOS to do that. My Lenovo ThinkPad L530 has no such thing. In windows, I can turn it off. In eCS, I cannot do that, and it is a PITA. I may put in a feature request.

Quote
I ended up disabling the two USB3 ports and reverted to USB2 in 'bios', attached USB keyboard and USB mouse but was unable to access a USB floppy drive to load in the eCS key.  Only two USB devices worked at a time.

USB has not changed, yet (don't know if it will, or not - probably not). USB 3.0 support is definitely unlikely (AFAIK, the project has started, but no progress, yet).

Sounds like you need a USB hub, to allow more things to plug in, but that is really not something that any installer can address.

I will note, that it is possible to add stuff (like keys) to the DVD, when you burn it, if you do it carefully.

Lars

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2017, 02:07:00 pm »
I am not surprised that a USB floppy drive did not work. USBMSD. ADD
 version 10.162,latest version from IBM is not working well. As a test you can download my latest usbdrv215. zip from Hobbes.nmsu.edu. I have tested with a Mitsumi floppy drive.
Of course that will not help you with your boot CD.

ivan

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2017, 02:25:55 pm »
As we all know getting drivers for modern hardware is like chasing a rainbow, you never catch it, but I can't help wonder which direction things are going.

Here is a short list from a new AMD based laptop

CPU name: AMD E2-7110 APU with AMD Radeon R2 Graphics, 4 logical CPUs

Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8821AE 802.11ac PCIe Wireless Network Adapter
VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Mullins [Radeon R3 Graphics]
Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH Azalia Controller
SMBus: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH SMBus Controller
SATA controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH SATA Controller [AHCI mode]
USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB XHCI Controller
USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB EHCI Controller
Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller

The question is, how many of those are being investigated?

Lars is doing an excellent job with his USB drivers but what about graphics, networking and sound.

Has anyone compiled a list of typical hardware in modern laptops and systems and using it to see which direction development should be going?  If not then all the effort is being put into standing still and marking time.

Sorry to appear negative but we, the users, are not being given any idea as to what we can possibly look forward to.


Joseph M. Kempf

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2017, 02:35:27 pm »
I am not surprised that a USB floppy drive did not work. USBMSD. ADD
 version 10.162,latest version from IBM is not working well. As a test you can download my latest usbdrv215. zip from Hobbes.nmsu.edu. I have tested with a Mitsumi floppy drive.
Of course that will not help you with your boot CD.
Thanks Lar:

I'll give usbdrv215 as try. 

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2017, 04:48:22 pm »
For those of you who are concerned about the future of device driver support, please view the Warpstock videos on the topic. These videos answer pretty much every future device support question in this thread.

I don't want to speak for AN, but I see the purpose of the release of ArcaOS is not bring support for these new devices, but to bring together the current level of support to allow more people to install the OS, and also to purchase legal copies of the OS.

The release of ArcaOS is actually taking time away from the same developers who work on new device support. After the release, I'm hoping for some good progress to be made.

And for those pioneering types who want to press the limits of what can be installed, the ArcaOS installation DVD is going to be a nice resource.
Expert consulting for ArcaOS, OS/2 and eComStation
http://www.blondeguy.com

Doug Bissett

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2017, 04:54:12 am »
Quote
Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8821AE 802.11ac PCIe Wireless Network Adapter
VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Mullins [Radeon R3 Graphics]
Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH Azalia Controller
SMBus: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH SMBus Controller
SATA controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH SATA Controller [AHCI mode]
USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB XHCI Controller
USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH USB EHCI Controller
Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller

The question is, how many of those are being investigated?

I think it is safe to say that all of them are being "investigated". Whether anything will actually be supported, remains to be seen. I suspect that some of them may already be supported. Have you tried it?

Quote
Sorry to appear negative but we, the users, are not being given any idea as to what we can possibly look forward to.

I think that even Arca Noae doesn't know exactly what you can look forward to, for the GA, except that it will be the latest available, stable, software, packaged with a new installer. From what I have seen, it will definitely be a step forward from eCS 2.2b2 (which is now more than 3 years out of date), but you need to remember that the first attempt is to try to move forward with small increments (read "fixes") to what already exists, and add new stuff later. It would be a support nightmare if they tried to push new stuff into the first release (and it would probably delay the whole thing for more than a year). As I have said before, don't expect miracles. At least the platform lives on, for now.

Joseph M. Kempf

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Re: Blue Lion Beta testing...
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2017, 08:25:20 pm »
I think that ... that [the GA] will be the latest available, stable, software, packaged with a new installer.
Thanks for your response above Doug.

Based on my experienced described above, the new installer is the number one must do upgrade.  Bring incremental currently available driver and software updates into the installation DVD will be much appreciate but updating the installer is the number one must do.