Author Topic: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?  (Read 14489 times)

Eric Erickson

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #150 on: May 10, 2017, 09:25:17 pm »
Quote
Anyone have any info on the potential release date?

Nothing official, and I don't speak for Arca Noae, but they are having a terrible time trying to get the installer working properly. It seems that every time they fix something, two other things break. Once they get past that, it should be ready to go.

I suspect that they have been looking at it for long enough, that they couldn't see a problem if it jumped out and grabbed them by the throat.

Thanks. I would expect that they would have put out some kind of news. Even if its a release date is now TBD.

Andreas Schnellbacher

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #151 on: May 10, 2017, 10:13:04 pm »
Note that Doug said his comments are not official.

Doug's texts contain much too many guesswork for being usable at all. It may point into the correct direction or it may not.

Unfortunately all the past announcements from Lewis about the release date were not correct. That's currently the main problem, that misinformed customers get no info at all. But it's surely not time to spread rumors.

Greg Pringle

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #152 on: May 10, 2017, 10:54:49 pm »
Rumor has it that something will released at some time.

Eugene Tucker

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #153 on: May 11, 2017, 12:11:10 am »
I honestly feel that letting them bet to work in peace may be the best solution I work in IT at a large company and thet seems to be the best solution. Yeah I know we can be disappointed but it is better to let them get it right the first time.

Dave Yeo

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #154 on: May 11, 2017, 06:20:15 am »
I have to agree with Doug. I believe we both get the same information and neither of us are privy to what goes on the ArcaOS developers mailing list, which I presume to exist.
The operating system is basically done, the installer is being very difficult to get working satisfactory. From comments from Lewis, he really wanted to get ArcaOS out before the end of April, but he also wants a decent product.
As an example, just getting the installer to look good and be readable at various screen resolutions is not as easy as you'd think. Then there is a huge variety of hardware and users who use that hardware in different ways.

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #155 on: May 11, 2017, 08:57:47 am »
Quote
Anyone have any info on the potential release date?
..... but they are having a terrible time trying to get the installer working properly. It seems that every time they fix something, two other things break. Once they get past that, it should be ready to go.

When I got my first "own" Computer it was preinstalled with Warp 3 (happend by accident!) - January the 13th, 1995. It was the time when VOBIS replaced Windows with OS/2 as the preinstalled System. Later on VOBIS have been forced by the pressure of Microsoft to Switch back to Windows - and the "Force" was as easy as this: "Otherwise you won't get Windows 95".

That time I was almost alone with this System, no one aorund me used it. I had no idea about Operating Systems but I liked it very much from the beginning. Strange that some things Keep that present in ones mind, i.e. the Computer was not equipped with a Sound Card, so I bought one (with ESS688 chip), as well as a CD Drive (a Double Speed Drive ! gosh - the Price at that time  :) ) . As there was even no VOBIS seller familiar with the System OS/2 I decided to start on my own. It was a Kind of thriumpf for me to install both on my own, opening that "Secret" 486/DX2-80 VLB PC, and in the end it worked. The first Sound that came out of my System was - the Warp 3 start Sound.....  :)

And that is - I guess - the main reason why I still try to get it to run and Keep it as some Kind of "Remaining Fellow" through the "Digital Decades, Revolutions..."  8)

Next at that time in 1995 I started to read the OS/2 articles in Computer magazines that have been around (c't, PC Welt, PC Magazin...) and there was a real OS/2 Magazine as well "OS/2 Inside". While I did not understand even a word in the firt issues I became more and more familiar with the articles and I collected them as well.

So - what I was able to understand from the beginning: The main Problem - and that was the barrier each user had to take first - has allways been identified as "The Installer". And that was not only the thruth regarding Drivers (I remember the Problems with the NE2000 Network Card) but also
- the disk layout
- the RAM
- the Qualtity of the Hardware
If I remember correctly there was some Kind of: OS/2 - Only on selected Hardware! So you had to take care what to take, and i.e. RAM is not allways RAM - choose qualtitiy!
While Windows 95 installed on almost every System that time (and still) it after the Installation often suprised you with the BOSD - the Blue Screen of Death - OS/2 on the other Hand refused to install on the same Hardware right from the beginning. But once yout got it installed it was pretty solid!

-> The installer was allways the Problem, never fitted every System! And this Kind of installer will never do. (I do not want to harm the people writing that installer, they did a great work, the Problem is the System of the installer itself, regardless what it Looks like!)

-> So I would like to repeat my Point of view for years now: switch to a totally different installer:
-> choose a bootable DFSEE USB STICK or DFSEE DVD
-> include at least two different Clones of preinstalled Systems (Legacy/ACPI)
-> go for it....

And I am still of this opinion: a rumour is even better than NO Information at all. If there is no Information at all one do not have to wonder if the Attention shrinks to Zero. And in the end: Giving NO Information is the reason why rumours are around at all.....

« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 09:53:03 am by Sigurd Fastenrath »

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #156 on: May 11, 2017, 04:33:30 pm »
And I am still of this opinion: a rumour is even better than NO Information at all. If there is no Information at all one do not have to wonder if the Attention shrinks to Zero. And in the end: Giving NO Information is the reason why rumours are around at all.....

Hi Sigurd, I agree. I even started considering flame as feedback, since it was hard to get the words out of people :)

About ArcaOS delays, if we waited so long for eCS 2.2, I guess we can wait a little bit more. Just let's not hold our breath about it, let's keep posting things, porting software, documenting the EDM/2 wiki, etc, etc.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Dave Yeo

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #157 on: May 11, 2017, 05:08:47 pm »
@Sigurd, while your idea for just having some disk images would work for many systems, what about systems that don't have good USB support or DVD support?
Or for one example, serial support. Load pscom.sys on a system without a serial port and the driver will complain and halt the boot. Don't load it and people like me won't have internet access.

André Heldoorn

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #158 on: May 11, 2017, 05:52:22 pm »
So - what I was able to understand from the beginning: The main Problem - and that was the barrier each user had to take first - has allways been identified as "The Installer".

Erm... You did mention VOBIS. Their main problem with their pre-installed OS obviously wasn't the installer, but 4 MiB of RAM. So their new "seamless multi-tasking" OS/2 computer was extremely slow, and "no hourglass anymore" turned out to be a clock. The installer was a PITA for fewer non-VOBIS customers, so that didn't help, but the average user of OS/2 will have bought a RAM upgrade and Windows 95 at the same this. So Windows 95 won both the battle and the war, despite of VOBIS selling many OS/2 installs to average customers. Swapping played a far more important role than the installer, if we don't look at niche markets with unsupported hardware. With VOBIS we've almost won the war, but 4 MiB of RAM of cheap computers turned out to be a fatal mistake for the market share of OS/2. Unfortunately it doesn't really matter anymore that Microsoft still likes to torture harddisks, but that's "updating" instead of "swapping".

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #159 on: May 11, 2017, 06:03:39 pm »
@Sigurd, while your idea for just having some disk images would work for many systems, what about systems that don't have good USB support or DVD support?
Or for one example, serial support. Load pscom.sys on a system without a serial port and the driver will complain and halt the boot. Don't load it and people like me won't have internet access.

That would be my answer once I would be the Seller/Distributor of the System:

(I do not want to become a Seller/Distributor, this is just the answer "If I were...." )

That would be the moment for a "tailored clone". As the Provider of this OS you could ask me what you want to have or must have in your clone:

i.e.: Serial Port Support.

I would then send you the tailored clone within one day.

In fact I would set up a form/Survey/questionary on my Homepage where you as a customer could check and fill wich Kind of Hardware you have and wich Kind of Drivers and Basic Applications you would Need/like to have.

Next I would build your tailored clone from one of the "Masterclones" and send it to you.

If you have a System with no USB/DVD/CD Support, than we will run into Problems for sure. The one "Must" for Hardware in this case is that it should be able to start DFSEE in some way. External (USB,DVD,CD) or may be internal with an alongside installed Linux i.e.

If there is no way to boot DFSEE than I would offer my last possibility: send me your SSD/HDD and I will install the Basic clone there for you. You will get a rescue USB Stick with the clone on it as backup as well, even if you would not be able to use it with this particular Hardware.

Yes, it sounds like some Kind of fairytale, but this way (cloning and restoring) it works for me for years now. This way I am able to use OS/2 WSeB 4.52 (ACP2, latest Drivers) on my Lenovo T450s, where other ways to install failed.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 06:22:10 pm by Sigurd Fastenrath »

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #160 on: May 11, 2017, 06:19:06 pm »
Erm... You did mention VOBIS. Their main problem with their pre-installed OS obviously wasn't the installer, but 4 MiB of RAM. So their new "seamless multi-tasking" OS/2 computer was extremely slow, and "no hourglass anymore" turned out to be a clock. The installer was a PITA for fewer non-VOBIS customers, ....

Well, you should Keep in mind that These preinstalled VOBIS PCs have been "tailored" Systems for OS/2, therefore the Installation wasn't that hard on this PCs (Funny enough: in my case I got a OS/2 Warp 3 CD the time I bought the comupter, that itself did not have a CD Drive  ;D....but in the end I was happy not to Play the "Diskjokey" each time I Need to reinstall the System). You are right: the clock/swapping was really annoying - but I upgraded to 8 MB of RAM pretty soon. The advertisment "4 MB of RAM are enough" did not really match the reality, it was advertisment.....

But for almost everyone else, with the "average" PC the Installer was the Killerapp of OS/2.

With VOBIS we've almost won the war,.....

This is a fairytale  ;) in deed, I remember there have been some others like ESCOM with preinstalled OS/2 PCs, but the real big Players, i.e. DELL, GATEWAY2000 (does anyone remember?  :) ) never supported OS/2. (if I remember correctly...  ;))
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 06:25:46 pm by Sigurd Fastenrath »

Richard Crowley

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #161 on: May 11, 2017, 10:13:14 pm »

 if we waited so long for eCS 2.2, I guess we can wait a little bit more.

For my own purposes, I'm very glad that we do have eCS and the AN drivers. For me, it is working fine and I can totally understand how an installer can be finicky. Best of luck to them. Learning to program and port stuff will keep me busy for quite a while. ;)

Mathias

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #162 on: May 12, 2017, 12:05:24 am »
Teheee : )) - Same here. My first PC also was a VOBIS Sky Tower (the one with the moving front lid to hide the drives).

This thing came with a 486 DX-2/66 - bundled with DOS 6.x when remembering correctly and OS/2 Warp 3 (the CD edition without a network stack). - Both in a dual boot environment.
It's been bundled with a 3,5" floppy drive, a 512 MB IDE disk (Quantum Fireball which still works today!!! :3), and this machine already had PCI (no Vesa Local Bus anymore), and had 8 MB of RAM.. and therefore was said to be future proof.
Though it came without a CD drive. Some time later I got myself a 2x speed CD-ROM drive which was around ~250 DM back then, a Soundblaster AWE32 and was able to explore the bundled CDs, including the Warp 3 Bonus Pack (Yeah still loving the parrots! :3)

Over the years the PC got updated, mainboard swapped, etc.. but I always kept my first hardware stuff, never sold anything or thrown anything of it away.
However, three years ago I found this case with some mainboard in it, which I couldn't remember... popped it out, built in the old 486er mainboard again, together with the original CPU, RAM, etc.. and tried to turn it on... but nothing happened. :o

Luckily I already knew some really kind Amiga community, which restores mainboards, PSUs, etcetc, so I gave my 486er package to them to restore all the elkos and replace the fixed-onboard-battery, but keep everything as original as possible. - Know what? - ALL the original pieces were still available to buy, so ... in the end... here it is.. xD - It's like new! *___* - Well the plastic parts of the Sky Tower became "a bit" more yellow than they used to be hehe.. but even that can be cured, they told me. (kept that up for some later time)

I am happy with Warp 3 and this 486er as it is. Such a great experience.. back then and today. - And for me.. Warp 3 belongs to the experience from back then. Don't want to miss OS/2 Warp 3 anymore. I like the look & feel.. somehow as part of my past.

The first time I was completely overwhelmed with Warp 3, as I had some "programming" experience with QuickBasic and Batch on my dad's 486er SX-25 on DOS 5.0... so I of course went with the stuff I knew..
But of course when a young guy get's a PC, he's not only (but a lot xD) interested in programming, but also games! : )) ... which of course led to sheer endless memmaker sessions in order to make the games run on DOS somehow.. but either they had mouse or sound or access to the cd drive.. it was quite hard and hopeless sometimes. :O

..... until I found out, by playing around with the levers on Warp 3, that you could actually emulate RAM for DOS sessions simply by flipping a lever alllll to the right.. EVERY DOS game ran marvellously, since it had sound, cd-drive, mouse, all the necessary irqs mapped, etcetc.. and aalways enough conventional RAM left to ALSO run the games!! *__* - WHAT A GREAT OS, I thought.. and from that moment on, I more and more booted Warp 3 and left DOS 6 where it was.. just in case.. ; ) - But DOS set dust over time, while Warp 3 more and more became the OS for everything, also constantly trying out features, reading the extraordinary help documents etcetc.. seeing so many well thought-through details in applications, which were missing in Microsoft OSes and applications (atleast in that detail)!

Has been a cewl time! But now it's time to move on with ArcaOS, that WILL BE released when ArcaNoae is happy with it. : )
I'll give the new OS a try on more modern machines, while the 486er (and some VirtualBoxes) always will remain a nice window to the past! *__*
Maybe next year I'll bring it along to Leipzig (DE) as part of the Retro gaming night in April.. for anybody who's close by.. you're welcome to visit hehe! : ))

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #163 on: May 12, 2017, 07:30:40 am »
Teheee : )) - Same here. My first PC also was a VOBIS Sky Tower (the one with the moving front lid to hide the drives).

This thing came with a 486 DX-2/66 - bundled with DOS 6.x when remembering correctly and OS/2 Warp 3 (the CD edition without a network stack). - Both in a dual boot environment....
..... until I found out, by playing around with the levers on Warp 3, that you could actually emulate RAM for DOS sessions simply by flipping a lever alllll to the right.. EVERY DOS game ran marvellously, since it had sound, cd-drive, mouse, all the necessary irqs mapped, etcetc.. and aalways enough conventional RAM left to ALSO run the games!! *__* - WHAT A GREAT OS,

 :D

That makes me thinking about rebuilding mine as well.  I kept the Highscreen Mini Tower but upgraded it like you almaost every year.
AMD 486/DX2-80  ->  NexgenNX90  ->  Pentium 100  ->  Pentium 166 MMX  ->  Pentium 233MMX  ->  Pentium II 266  ->
finally to the Intel Penitum III 600 with 512 MB RAM. This is still there and working.  ;D With this I can make a "Clean install" of each and any OS/2 Version up from 2.1.

But I will try to get a 486 Mainboard if I can find one and have a look.... To Play some good old DOS Games again (that are runnin gin ScummVM or DOSBOX already, but just for the Feeling....

I will have a look if I can find the original VOBIS Prospekt form that time that is somewhere around here...


Mathias

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #164 on: May 12, 2017, 10:19:05 am »
@ Sigurd Fastenrath:

That's a really nice idea!! Imagine.. playing Commander Keen again for instance.. *___* - on original hardware from back then.. same keyboard as back then, connecting your old joystick/gamepad.. and instantly feel young again! xD

Hmm.. havn't found much about the Sky Tower, but the [VOBIS advertise] is on Youtube.. *grinning*
Luckily this pink slide lid handle, as seen in the advertiser, could be swapped, depending on your mood.. ; ) - The case came bundled with the choice out of three: pink, blue (default) and black.
I remember after the 486er, I upgraded the case to a Pentium (2?) with 120 MHz and later on a 233 MMX, and after this.. I had a slot CPU (soooo lovely xDD) with 800 MHz and later on (after some while) a noname notebook with whopping 1,1 GHz o__o, 256 MB RAM, a 3,5" floppy drive, DVD-ROM, PS/2 connector and USB 1.1!! - This one was unable to run OS/2 Warp 3 back then for some reason.. so I sticked to Win98 SE.

Last year, I found the notebook again, and wanted to give it another try with Warp 3, then 4.. but it didn't turn on .. so I gave it to the same guys, who had already restored my 486er.. and after an exchange of aaalll the elkos and battery, it finally worked again! *__*
The guy who had repaired that thing said he was swearing all the time about how cheap this notebook was built.. and how complicated it is designed.. ehem... :>

After I got it back, first thing I tried was installing Warp 3, then tried Warp 4... but both installers failed at the same spot: After floppy 2 it always gave a REALLY loud beeeeep, saying "cannot access your hard drive or cd-rom" - Okay.. so I went on the chipset manufacturer website (SIS) and found the IDE driver for OS/2 .. LUCKY!! xD -> manipulated the 1st and 2nd install disk (warp 3 and 4) to include the driver.. and booted! - SAME story again, just it had successfully loaded the driver.. but STILL... "cannot access your hdd or cd-drive" grml..

Then I remembered, a friend of mine had found an OS/2 2.0 package (untouched and under a lot of dust) in his company and this was about to be thrown away at cleaning up... so I was the lucky man to keep it from then on. - 18 or so floppies, all handbooks.. everything in mint shape!! *__* - What a find!!
So.. I thought why not give OS/2 2.0 a try on the notebook.. and theeere it went! - Long story short: It worked!! No IDE/hard drive anything message.. just went through nicely!! - W00t!! - So in the end, I might be lacking an OS/2 driver for the CD-ROM drive indeed in order install Warp 3 and 4 from CD..

That's the current status.. I might need to create floppies (Yep, they are included on the CDs), just lacking the time a bit until nowdays..
But as machines with a floppy drive getting more and more rare these days, I felt I need to speed up things a little, and started creating the first few disks from the images yesterday.. some more to come over the upcoming weekend.. *__*

And yes.. another machine is already waiting for the upcoming ArcaOS.. cleaned and ready to run :3