Author Topic: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?  (Read 14261 times)

Pete

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2017, 06:08:35 pm »
Hi All

@Andreas

I've been running eCS without DOS/Win16 support installed for years - since eCS1.2 was released.
People tell me that DOS/Win16 support is actually needed but never what it is needed for.
It is not required to run anything that I use including peer networking, ftp, seamonkey, openoffice.


@Martin
The original question was does ArcaOS honour deselection of DOS/Win16 support.
The answer from Alex seems to be No.


Maybe I am a little "thick" but it seems to me that DOS/Win16 support is required for running DOS/Win16 apps in an OS/2 VDM but nothing else. As my only use for DOS is to run a few games and these play better with sound DOSBox works better than an OS/2 VDM. Ergo, no OS/2 DOS/Win16 support is required, there are no DOS lines in config.sys and the \mdos\os2 directory does not exist.

Obviously other people have other requirements.

However, if an installer allows the user to deselect DOS/Win16 support then there should not be any DOS lines in config.sys and the \os2\mdos directory should not exist.

No doubt people will also tell me that multipt.exe is required even when using a usb mouse?



Regards

Pete



Andreas Schnellbacher

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2017, 06:10:35 pm »
Martin, I support that completely, plus:

People, please stop that discussion about DOS or WIN16. We live in 2017 -- thank you for your understanding.

Dave Yeo

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2017, 06:19:40 pm »
Hi

I don't know why we are discussing about Win16  :)  but if you want something similar to Win16 support, but an alternative of having Win16 binaries on DosBox, you need to follow the work and support this guy: https://hackernoon.com/@CantabileApp

It's not a useful project for us as it is written in C# and basically dependent on Win64, eg mapping Win16 to Win64. Only aiming for a subset of Win16 API as well.

Andreas Kohl

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2017, 07:30:18 pm »
Martin, I support that completely, plus:

People, please stop that discussion about DOS or WIN16. We live in 2017 -- thank you for your understanding.
Ok. let's move to the outdated Win32s support, the next big gap.

Pete

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2017, 08:12:49 pm »
Hi All

Seems we have to bury our heads in the sand as some people do not like an honest discussion about what an installer should do with regard to user selection.


Regards

Pete

Paul Smedley

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2017, 09:22:30 pm »
Hi Sigurd!!

In Addition I Point to your own Statement there http://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,1291.msg12109.html#msg12109 that I might have misunderstand "closed beta test".

In this context - 'closed beta test' just means limited numbers of testers, vs open beta where the binaries are available to all and sundry.

Cheers,

Paul

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2017, 09:55:50 pm »
Hi Sigurd!!

In Addition I Point to your own Statement there http://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,1291.msg12109.html#msg12109 that I might have misunderstand "closed beta test".

In this context - 'closed beta test' just means limited numbers of testers, vs open beta where the binaries are available to all and sundry.

Cheers,

Paul

Hi Paul,

thanks for your message! Yes, you are right, I may have misintrepreted it as I combined it with the Information of some beta testers in this thread that they had to sing NDAs (or whatever those are called) and so are not allowed to give Information. All this together (a closed beta, NDAs for beta testing and so on) sounded for me a bit ridiculous compared with the question (and so interest) that have been raised by me and others.

I still remember the time when I got the Merlin Beta CD, those have been the days...  ::)

All the best to you "down under" and please Keep supporting OS/2-eCS-BlueLion!

Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2017, 11:19:27 pm »
Quote
Ok. let's move to the outdated Win32s support, the next big gap.

Ok, use DOSBOX, it works there. End of discussion.

Quote
Seems we have to bury our heads in the sand as some people do not like an honest discussion about what an installer should do with regard to user selection.

Discussion is good, but don't expect to change things for the GA, at this late date. Those who are doing it just don't have the time to mess with something that isn't causing problems.

FWIW, I have often wondered about the DOS/WinOS2 junk in (eCS) CONFIG.SYS, but I never found the time, or incentive, to bother trying to change it. I do remember, years ago (probably before eCS showed up), that all of that junk was not necessary, and I am pretty sure that I was using SNAP at the time. Something to worry about AFTER the ArcaOS GA is released, and probably AFTER the necessary drivers are produced, and probably AFTER a bunch of other things. If you wish to go through the exercise of testing it all (with ArcaOS, after it is released), your input would be appreciated.

Dave Yeo

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2017, 01:25:31 am »
Martin, I support that completely, plus:

People, please stop that discussion about DOS or WIN16. We live in 2017 -- thank you for your understanding.

I know people who only use OS/2 for the DOS support, given a SNAP supported video card, it is better for some things then Dosbox, Dosemu or Windows.

Paul Smedley

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2017, 03:43:30 am »
Hi Sigurd,

Hi Sigurd!!

In Addition I Point to your own Statement there http://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,1291.msg12109.html#msg12109 that I might have misunderstand "closed beta test".

In this context - 'closed beta test' just means limited numbers of testers, vs open beta where the binaries are available to all and sundry.

thanks for your message! Yes, you are right, I may have misintrepreted it as I combined it with the Information of some beta testers in this thread that they had to sing NDAs (or whatever those are called) and so are not allowed to give Information. All this together (a closed beta, NDAs for beta testing and so on) sounded for me a bit ridiculous compared with the question (and so interest) that have been raised by me and others.

I still remember the time when I got the Merlin Beta CD, those have been the days...  ::)

All the best to you "down under" and please Keep supporting OS/2-eCS-BlueLion!

I'm assuming there were a couple of rounds of testing (note these are my opinion only, I have a working relationship with Samba development with Arca Noae, and a friendship with Lewis, but I'm not 'in the know' so to speak).

Early testing - NDA required - very closed group. Later testing, no NDA required - extended (but not open) group of testers.

I intend to keep supporting OS/2 - website is a bit quiet, but things are happening - ie Samba 4.x netdrive plugin which will be in Blue Lion/Arca OS and GCC is still current.

My day job does keep me very busy, so I do have limited time these days - that *might* change in October after the GM plant I work at closes - but hopefully (for me at least) I find another job straight away :)

Cheers,

Paul

Andreas Kohl

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2017, 12:20:53 pm »
Quote
Ok. let's move to the outdated Win32s support, the next big gap.

Ok, use DOSBOX, it works there. End of discussion.

Thanks for providing fake news again. DOSBox is an emulator, so it would work theoretically in every emulator. But you have also to provide a Win32s capable system inside of it. How it integrates from a networking perspective? I cannot see any documentation about DOSBox networking with OS/2. Further DOSBox relies on SDL library, so there's no easy way to access remote DOS applications. So you want to tell me seriously that providing gaming in DOSBox is more important than running real business software for ArcaOS? It becomes more and more esoteric.

André Heldoorn

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2017, 01:02:44 pm »
I know people who only use OS/2 for the DOS support

Dropping DOS has no use, and not just because DOSBox' video is too slow for e.g. more modern DOS games indeed. AN itself used Win-OS/2 to promote the OS, by using the news' story of broken legacy Windows 3.1 hardware of a French airport. It's an unique selling of point of our OS. People wanting to stop using "outdated" Windows 3.1 software, while still caring about Windows software, will have "moved on" to Windows 95, in the 90s of OS/2. As stated earlier, it's a niche market. It makes no sense to try to ignore a niche market by pointing to a larger, different market. Yes, Windows 10, commercial clouds and multicore CPUs are newer than the French airport's old shit of the OS/2 2.1 era. So what? I can even think of one important reason to not drop support for slow modem connections of the 80s. :)

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2017, 04:05:04 pm »
Taking this one step further, many OS/2 users are hanging on because their OS/2 or Win31 box is tied to a very expensive piece of hardware. I know several cases where the upgrade cost to move from OS/2 to something else is in the 10s of millions of dollars or higher. If it's working anyway, it's cheaper to support OS/2 than to move on.

But every feature deleted from ArcaOS means the chance that the old software won't run. Most of the ones I've seen are not Y2K safe, so they won't set the date or time on them.
Expert consulting for ArcaOS, OS/2 and eComStation
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2017, 05:55:58 pm »
I opened other thread about "DOS / Win16" can be opened and discuss with more detail if Win16 support is "What you need" or "What you want".  - Do you really need DOS/WIN16 Support?

And if it is need it can be usefull to list the applications that the users are currently using. Or if it is a customer that you have and you can not name, you can say something like "A company on the airport/transportastion industry is using this XYZ (named software) under DOS or Windows16". But I think that it is important to give details on which software is needed, not just saying "I'm 75% sure that someone in a cave still needs Win16 VM and can not switch to DOSBox".  Or if it is becasue "I want" the OS run DOS/Win16 embedded as an OS/2 to just know that it is there and don't use it, thats another story.

But let's discuss it on other thread.
Martin Iturbide
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Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2017, 09:36:02 pm »
One final comment here.

If you need DOS/WinOS2, in ArcaOS, it is still there, and probably won't be removed (but I am not the one who makes that decision). I am also pretty sure that it will NOT be updated, in any way. So what works today should continue to work. If it doesn't work today, it is highly unlikely that it will work in ArcaOS. Of course, that  depends on hardware support (including drivers), which is also the case today.