Author Topic: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?  (Read 15359 times)

Pete

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2017, 02:00:23 am »
Hi All

To clarify my position: I have not at any time suggested that DOS/Win16 support should be dropped and I have no doubt that people still use it. My point was that if an installer offers the option of deselecting DOS/Win16 (Legacy) support then the installer should honour deselection and not install DOS/Win16 support files in \os2\mdos and should not write DOS lines to the install generated config.sys file.


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Pete

Alex Taylor

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2017, 05:22:09 am »
Let me clarify how this works. 

First of all, it is the OS/2 installer which acts on these selections. This same program (IBM code) is called at some point to lay down the core operating system files, no matter what distribution you are installing. This behaviour is internal to that program and within that context there is no way to prevent it.

Second, there are three basic options provided with respect to DOS and Win-OS/2 features (not including minor configuration tweaks):
  • Install MDOS and Win-OS/2
  • Install MDOS but not Win-OS/2
  • Do not install MDOS or Win-OS/2
Each of these options demonstrably produces a different result, so the installer certainly doesn't ignore the the setting.

In case (1), the MDOS and WINOS2 (or NLV equivalent) directories are installed and populated, normally totalling about 12 MB of files.

In case (2), the MDOS directory is populated, totalling around 1.6 MB in around 80-odd files, including a fully functional DOS system with fullscreen and windowed session support.

In case (3), the MDOS directory is populated with only 800KB in 31 files, including the VDM kernel, virtual drivers and a few core commands. However, this is a stub system only which (TTBOMK) cannot be run interactively, and probably does not include windowed session support; only the minimum files and drivers which IBM has deemed necessary by the core OS.  (There are OS/2 drivers and low-level systems which require VDM support, hence the presence of this support is to be guaranteed by the OS. This has been corroborated by people whom I consider sufficiently knowledgeable to count as authoritative.)

In other words, the user's selection is honoured in the sense that the user-level MDOS environment is not installed in the latter case.  Some DOS files are still installed because the core OS requires it, but they do not make up a user-level MDOS environment.  "Do not install DOS" should therefore be interpreted to mean "do not install the user MDOS environment".  It does not mean "do not install any kind of system VDM support", because the latter is not allowed according to what IBM has deemed to compose the core OS/2 spec.

Pete

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2017, 06:49:09 am »
Hi Alex

Thank you for the clarification.

As I have been running eCS systems for years without an \os2\mdos directory and with all DOS related lines removed from config.sys I can only surmise that I do not need or use any OS/2 drivers or low-level systems which require VDM support.


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Pete

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2017, 02:30:49 pm »
Hi Sigurd,
My day job does keep me very busy, so I do have limited time these days - that *might* change in October after the GM plant I work at closes - but hopefully (for me at least) I find another job straight away :)

Cheers,

Paul

Hi Paul, I keep my fingers crossed for you!!!!

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2017, 03:05:26 pm »
So, this is the last week of March.

The "New OS/2" news got posted on Slashdot, too early for my taste, but got posted on sunday.  "A 21st-Century Version Of OS/2 Warp May Be Released Soon". I was hoping that it will be better to post a news there after it got released.

Arca Noae didn't posted anything yet, so I think that the 31 March date is still on without changes.  I'm expecting to see "ArcaOS 5.0" gold this friday available for sale to the public and we also finally going to find out how much it will cost.

So, from friday it can be interesting for the community to post screenshots, questions, articles, comments about the OS. (on other threads, not this one.)

1) I'm looking forward to have screenshots and maybe a visual tutorial of the instalation process of ArcaOS 5.0 since the installer is a new one.
2) It can be interesting also to try to modify wikipedia about ArcaOS, for the moment the "Evil Wikipedians" rejected my proposal of the ArcaOS article because of the "lack of importance" of the news... those evil....
3) Any other things that will be interesting to do as a community after the release?

Regards
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 08:58:23 pm by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #65 on: April 10, 2017, 05:33:32 am »
ok, so I think this may be the final week before ArcaOS get released.

I know that many people on the community like critic all, overanalyze everything and not being surprised by anything (like good technical people) but I think it is good to maintain the optimism and see ArcaOS like a great first step for the improvement of the platform.

There are good reason to be cautious, IBM drop the platform first, Mensys/XEU just disappeared with eComStation and now a new player shows up. But for the moment there should be no prejudice with the new distro.

I remain optimistic with the OS and I have a little anxiety for it to be released. It is an important milestone so the platform can advance with other projects.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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ivan

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #66 on: April 10, 2017, 12:39:17 pm »
Not trying to be critical but I do have a problem.  There is absolutely no information about what is going to be incorporated in the release.  There is nothing on the AN site and all the beta testers appear very reluctant to even hint about what might be in there.

At this stage, as close as it is to the proposed release date, I would have thought they would be ramping up the publicity, if not sending out samples to the tech sites at least putting out some information.

This lack of information is disturbing to say the least and brings back memories of the eCS debacle.   Yes, they are a small company but if they still haven't got everything ready by now it doesn't say much for the future.

Andi B.

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #67 on: April 10, 2017, 01:42:54 pm »
Quote
At this stage, as close as it is to the proposed release date, I would have thought they would be ramping up the publicity, if not sending out samples to the tech sites at least putting out some information.
I would guess they do not have the time for advertising as they are working day and night to fix problems testers are reporting. I would guess they are still not satisfied with the quality of the product they currently have and do work very hard to fix bugs before releasing the product into the wild. I would guess there are an astonishing number of smaller an bigger problems which comes up when beta testers try out the product on different machines with different setups. Personally I hope (and I'm still confident) the quality of testing and so the quality of the end product will be at a much higher level than it was with eCS. But that's all guessing. We'll have to wait for an announcement. Guess at least on 15 th there will be one.

Personally I would prefer they test and improve the product until all the major problems are solved even if it would mean another delay. Here eCS with all the updates still works. I only want to install another OS/2 version when the biggest installation issues are ironed out. It does not help anyone when they release a package and when a lot of customers have troubles with installation or when it does not work as expected.

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #68 on: April 10, 2017, 02:45:50 pm »
Not trying to be critical but I do have a problem.  There is absolutely no information about what is going to be incorporated in the release.  There is nothing on the AN site and all the beta testers appear very reluctant to even hint about what might be in there.

At this stage, as close as it is to the proposed release date, I would have thought they would be ramping up the publicity, if not sending out samples to the tech sites at least putting out some information.

This lack of information is disturbing to say the least and brings back memories of the eCS debacle.   Yes, they are a small company but if they still haven't got everything ready by now it doesn't say much for the future.

I fully Support this text "Thumbs up" as well as this part from Andi:

Personally I would prefer they test and improve the product until all the major problems are solved even if it would mean another delay. Here eCS with all the updates still works. I only want to install another OS/2 version when the biggest installation issues are ironed out. It does not help anyone when they release a package and when a lot of customers have troubles with installation or when it does not work as expected.

But not this part:

I would guess they do not have the time for advertising as they are working day and night to fix problems testers are reporting. I would guess they are still not satisfied with the quality of the product they currently have and do work very hard to fix bugs before releasing the product into the wild. I would guess there are an astonishing number of smaller an bigger problems which comes up when beta testers try out the product on different machines with different setups. Personally I hope (and I'm still confident) the quality of testing and so the quality of the end product will be at a much higher level than it was with eCS. But that's all guessing. We'll have to wait for an announcement. Guess at least on 15 th there will be one.

I am allways wondering: how much time does it take to write 5 sentences in a Forum or in a News blog? For me it does take less than 5 Minutes. ArchaoS was announced almost 18 months ago and I would allways prefer to "spread the News" than making a "mystery" about it. I think nobody expects to much Details but I already failed with my question about some few informations before. And it is useless to open a debate about "It will be ready when it is ready" again, but keeping every Information that "closed" is contraproductive in my opinion. I.e. the Price might or should have been clear and fixed for a while now, otherwise -> how to calculate the Project? What to print on a box (if there will be one delivered at all - may be only digital delivery)....

But, let us wait and see....


Dave Yeo

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #69 on: April 10, 2017, 04:55:28 pm »
To quote Lewis on a late last night message,
Quote
Likely, it's a quick fix, but there's just that only-24-hours-in-a-day problem which keeps plaguing us. Maybe we need to find a different planet with longer days...I don't know...   :)

Yes there are still minor glitches and Arca Noae is a small company.
Myself, I don't speak for Arca Noae and only have access to the beta mailing list and am therefore reluctant to say much. The product itself is nice, nothing revolutionary in the first release.

ivan

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #70 on: April 10, 2017, 08:39:16 pm »
Now I am worried.  If they are fixing problems at this late stage they have a very big problem because it leaves the question 'what are they going to miss?'

I don't know what the problem is but I have a feeling that they have added too much glitz at too late a stage and things are not working well together.  Maybe they should admit that they need more time (and state why) and put the release date back a bit more or we are likely to end up as the people with win 10, being second level beta testers - not a good position to be in.

Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #71 on: April 10, 2017, 09:19:44 pm »
Now I am worried.  If they are fixing problems at this late stage they have a very big problem because it leaves the question 'what are they going to miss?'

I don't know what the problem is but I have a feeling that they have added too much glitz at too late a stage and things are not working well together.  Maybe they should admit that they need more time (and state why) and put the release date back a bit more or we are likely to end up as the people with win 10, being second level beta testers - not a good position to be in.

Don't "worry", the product should be better than eCS 2.2b2 was. I am not sure if they will meet the April 15th deadline, but be assured that all of the testers will have a say as to whether it is ready, or not. You are probably right about adding too much glitz, too late in the game, and a couple of those things have come back to  bite them, and now they are waiting for fixes (not a good description, it is not really "glitz", it is basic functionality, that was late being delivered). Dave is also right, that everybody is busting their butts to get it right, and nobody has the time to hold hands, until the job is done.

For those who wonder what will be in it, most of it is available already (although not necessarily the versions that will be in ArcaOS). ArcaOS is just putting it all together in one package.

Be aware, that some things that may be expected, will NOT be included because of licensing concerns. If a user still wants to use them, they can download, and install, whatever they want.

Greggory Shaw

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #72 on: April 11, 2017, 01:49:15 am »
Come down, Bama will win it all this year !

Dariusz Piatkowski

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2017, 05:27:13 am »
So I recently (as in over this past weekend) renewed my AN Subscription (3rd yr in a row now)...I did not mind doing so, even though over the past year I quite honestly did not get anything new out of this support model...my 6-core AMD Phenom X6 CPU still fails to get past the dreaded WPS blue-screen on bootup...so no change there, I remain locked into the 5-core only mode.

However...reading through this thread and comparing the conversation to what has appeared in various forums and/or Warpstock presentations I do have a couple of Qs I wish someone would provide an answer for:

1) will the current AN Subscription model provide the level of "upgrades" which the overall ArcaOS is intending to do deliver as a single "package"? I ask this because I honestly view my last year's subscription costs as funding the ArcaOS project...again, part of the reason why I said "I did not mind doing so", but I am not at all clear regarding the plans for the AN Subscription and how that compares to the ArcaOS...???

2) will SNAP, whether for the GA timing, or thereafter be finally fixed to allow multiple modern displays (or heck, even older displays) to be used without any problems? In my personal experience the SNAP EDID decoding logic is broken, I attribute that to a bug, the work-around is to re-write the display EDID which quite honestly is not for the faint of heart...LOL, been there, done that, do not wish to have to do so again. SNAP has been talked about repeatedly, as a video device driver it is an incredibly important component of any modern OS and yet there have not been any updates regarding this...???

Again...I tend to "put my money where my mouth is", meaning, support the efforts through funding, whether it be something like AN Subscription or individual contributor donations (which I have done a few of in the past couple of years alone), so the least I would like to see is a clear "Release Features" list from my current vendor of choice.

Andi B.

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2017, 08:37:09 am »
I only want to say some words about SNAP. This is the #1 priority for me and my new system (actually more than 2 years old but still not able to use as main system cause of the video problems). There are some problems in modern BIOSes and some core graphic components of OS/2 which can not be solved in the graphic driver. Some bugs seems to be fixed, for some there only exists a vague idea how to work around. So IMHO graphic will remain a problem for some of us for another while :(

EIDE - I've not seen such problem and honestly I do not care about. If the monitor delivers wrong information or the BIOS or graphic driver does decode them wrong, I did not have a problem with it the past. And you can not do very much against a faulty monitor or BIOS except a special work around. I always setup SNAP to 'not read DDC' information and use a 'Standard monitor' device. This may not work when you use SNAP with VESA instead an accelerated driver (or Panorama) cause in this case TTBOMK SNAP/Panorama relies on what the BIOS tells them. With RGB (VGA) or DVI connected monitors it may help to cut out the DDC Pins from the connector when the monitor (or BIOS) does not work correct. Of course not doable with Display Port or HDMI.

Your wish -
Quote
to be used without any problems?
no one can fulfill I fear. Promises that every software and hardware problem (and yours seems to be very specific) will be solved can be done only by liars. But I think they work on the major known and undestood problems. Personally for me with too slow progress but I'm not in the position to judge nor to solve it by myself. From WSE presentations you can get a picture of how complex SNAP must be. And SNAP is based on some base OS/2 components (f.i. gradd) and evolved over I think more than a decade. And now unfortunately is not maintained for another decade. It's not a thing where you can find and solve a problem within a few days. From that point of view I understand that there is not that much progress we hoped for.

Though I do not speak for AN. All this is from what I read on different channels. There is still some hope that AN surprises us with a new working SNAP version next week. But I would not bet any cent on that. There are so much other high priority tasks for them to solve so I fear we've to wait another while for a major improvement with SNAP.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 08:54:44 am by Andi B. »