Author Topic: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?  (Read 14293 times)

Andreas Kohl

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2017, 02:47:44 am »
Well, why don't you just switch to windows? Win 10 won't run any of them either. In fact, I would be surprised if XP would run any of them.
Surprised by proven facts?

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Acrobat Reader, and Internet Explorer 5, are certainly useless, today, but they will run in DosBox, if you set it up properly.
I was not talking about the usability only about compatibility. So how can your DosBox utilise the integrated Win-OS/2 for transparent network connections etc.?

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FWIW, there is a new RDP client for OS/2 (RDeskTop), that actually works quite well (it is at HOBBES). It will NOT be included with ArcaOS because of licensing concerns, but it can be dropped in easily.
As long the web browser that was forked from Mozilla's Firefox is not crashing you could also use the Webclient from Ericom - still much better than this recommended pre alpha stuff.

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OS/2 has it's own remote desktop (PMVNC) that works well, and it will be included in ArcaOS. The new VNCViewer (also at HOBBES) apparently works with the newer VNC server that windows uses (but I haven't tried it).
Totally wrong or at least off topic here.

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There hasn't been a new sound device with OS/2/winOS2 drivers since before eComStation showed up. Now is not the time to try to go back and recover from that.
Nice fairytales.

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So which recent PCIe audio card is supported?

Not enough of them,
which means none by translating your sophistic answer.

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but most on board sound works, up to about 4 years ago, when the UniAud project came to a halt. I have some Realtek, and Intel, devices that work pretty well, but I haven't seen a plug in card since the days of Creative Labs Live! (which don't work with windows newer than Vista, by the way).
I don't want to prove any of your claims wrong. Seriously: http://support.creative.com/Downloads/searchdownloads.aspx?filename=SB24_PCDRV_LB_1_04_0090.exe

Unfortunately also the rest of your posting contains a lot of disinformation.

Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2017, 05:42:09 am »
Andreas, I can see that you are only interested in arguing, without paying attention to what is going on in the real world. If you wish to use antique software, by all means continue (you will probably also need antique hardware to go with it). If modern hardware won't work with it, that is too bad, but such is life. Don't expect overworked people to drop everything just to make antique software work, when modern software is in desperate need of their very valuable time, and efforts.

You do have options. Use them.

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 08:25:20 am »
I have some Hardware around, that I will test with ArcaOS5 once it is available and I have time.

- Lenovo X200T
- Lenovo X230T
- Lenovo T450s
- Sony Vaio Pro 13

Besides the new installer my expectations are very low - as far as I can extract from the Informations a got here in a different thread there will no other Drivers be included than those already available via AN Subscription.

While it is totally true what Doug wrote there is still the Problem that there is

- no Sound
- no WLAN
- no Video Driver besides Panorama

for the last years Hardware.

Well, this is no Problem for those industrial customers that are for sure the biggest Group of customers at all, those do mostly not Need this Features.

But for a Community member and Laptop user this is a true Show stopper. That is simple and true.

AN started three years ago in 2014 and the announcement of ArcaOS is as well quite some time ago. The decision where to concentrate on while trying to get ArcaOS out the door, since 1 and a half year, - new Drivers or new Installation methods has been made by Arca Noae and that is something one, or better me, has to accept and it makes no sense to complain about it. It is as it is.

But for me this is still the wrong decision. Especially when it will not be possible to install from USB Media.

In my honest opinion the install process at all ( I suggested it before ) should have gone in a total new direction:

- using a bootable DFSEE Stick
- the stick contains an extra Partition containing an universal (quite easy: "no Network" Card selected, "no Sound" selected) clone that once the HDD/SDD is partitioned with DFSEE is extraced. After the frist boot of this clone one can simply add the applications and Drivers one wants to use
(In fact that is in some Kind the way it goes with Windows and Linux)

I am using this method (not with an USB DFSEE stick, but once ago with a Linux Stick and DFSEE) for years now and is such simple and easy. With this I was able to install even an updated Warp 4 on the latest possible Hardware (i.e. Lenovo T450s).

Very contraproductive in my honest opinion is to Keep a lot of Information about it as some Kind of "mystery" "closed Information" "top secret" instead of spreading the News! You can do this if you have a product like an i-phone that already has a lot of Attention, but with a product that almost no one knows it is absolutly necessary to have a transparent beta stage and post as much Information as possible.
Else if you do not want to have Attention, because your main customers are industrial and you do not want or have the time to speak to the "private user" or have this Kind of Clients.
But therefore my expectations are low.

Even though - let us see what will come out the door once it Comes...



« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 09:26:25 am by Sigurd Fastenrath »

Dave Yeo

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2017, 08:58:46 am »
...
But for me this is still the wrong decision. Especially when it will not be possible to install from USB Media.

In my honest opinion the install process at all ( I suggested it before ) should have gone in a total new direction:

- using a bootable DFSEE Stick
- the stick contains an extra Partition containing an universal (quite easy: "no Network" Card selected, "no Sound" selected) clone that once the HDD/SDD is partitioned with DFSEE is extraced. After the frist boot of this clone one can simply add the applications and Drivers one wants to use
(In fact that is in some Kind the way it goes with Windows and Linux)

Then there are problems like which disk driver to have on the image. My T42 traps with the default of loading the ACHI driver first, other systems won't boot without it, it also doesn't like ACPI though that could be changed later. They have to attempt to install on a huge range of hardware from the newest to fairly old.
While the first release doesn't seem like it will have anything revolutionary on it, the plan is to concentrate on updating and adding new drivers after release.

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2017, 09:06:16 am »
...
But for me this is still the wrong decision. Especially when it will not be possible to install from USB Media.

In my honest opinion the install process at all ( I suggested it before ) should have gone in a total new direction:

- using a bootable DFSEE Stick
- the stick contains an extra Partition containing an universal (quite easy: "no Network" Card selected, "no Sound" selected) clone that once the HDD/SDD is partitioned with DFSEE is extraced. After the frist boot of this clone one can simply add the applications and Drivers one wants to use
(In fact that is in some Kind the way it goes with Windows and Linux)

Then there are problems like which disk driver to have on the image. My T42 traps with the default of loading the ACHI driver first, other systems won't boot without it, it also doesn't like ACPI though that could be changed later. They have to attempt to install on a huge range of hardware from the newest to fairly old.
While the first release doesn't seem like it will have anything revolutionary on it, the plan is to concentrate on updating and adding new drivers after release.

For this the solution is simple: as an "ordinary" clone does not Need more than 4GB at all you can have one for "legacy" and one for "Modern" Hardware. I guess besides the AHCI/DANI and ACPI/APM Driver question there is almost no other Problem with Drivers as almost all are generic.

For me I got a step further and have tailored clones for each of my Hardware (i.e.: with SNAP and APM for the ThinkPad X41, with Panorama and ACPI for the Lenovo T450s). But all of them still descend from the one original "superclone".
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 09:12:21 am by Sigurd Fastenrath »

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2017, 02:18:40 pm »
Hi

I think that we are noticing the weight of the "Legacy" of the platform.  There are a lot of things on the platform that we no longer use but it will be "taboo" just to think to take it off. I personally think that some of that legacy is a drag that is slowing us down. I'm almost sure that ArcaOS is not going to touch or remove that legacy of things, but it can be interesting on the future to start thinking what is not usefull anymore and finally put some things at rest.  I can not talk about the corporate enviroment of OS/2 users, but if we look for example what I asked on 2015 (Favorite/Required non-opensource OS/2-eCs apps? ) we can see that the requirement of the legacy components that used to be hot in the 90's has shrinked.  Maybe it can be good to discuss again what are the community favorite OS/2 applications.

Regards
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 02:26:00 pm by Martin Iturbide »
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Pete

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2017, 03:57:30 pm »
Hi Andreas

There is most definitely a "roadblock" with printer support if you have a modern Canon inkjet printer.

Canon supply source code for their printers to work with cups/linux. The source code includes 2 precompiled library files that are required to compile the source code. There is no OS/2 version of those libraries and Canon will not be providing versions in the future. Canon will not release the source code for the precompiled libraries even under a nON Disclosure Agreement.

The result is that current Canon printers are not very well supported by cups for OS/2. My MG7550 can only print on A4 paper as the gutenprint driver - modified from an earlier Canon printer - cannot access the cassette holding photo paper/envelopes and the colour output is not accurate with Blue tending to be closer to Purple.

At the moment it seems the best cups for OS/2 printers are HP - but check support is in the hplip package and no extra closed source "plugins" are required. Shame HP do not make an inkjet printer that can print directly onto printable CD/DVD.


With regard to Crystal based soundcards: The 1 I had for a short period of time seemed to work - until it got stuck in a "repeat the sound forever" loop requiring a press of the Off button to resolve. This happened with both the crystal drivers and uniaud drivers so frequently that I gave up on the Crystal soundcard about 2 weeks after installing it. I seem to recall something about "buffers too small" being suggested as the cause of the problem but cannot remember if that was a hardware or software problem.


Regards

Pete




Andreas Kohl

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2017, 05:33:37 pm »
Hi Andreas

There is most definitely a "roadblock" with printer support if you have a modern Canon inkjet printer.

Canon supply source code for their printers to work with cups/linux. The source code includes 2 precompiled library files that are required to compile the source code. There is no OS/2 version of those libraries and Canon will not be providing versions in the future. Canon will not release the source code for the precompiled libraries even under a nON Disclosure Agreement.
Even older Canon inkjets which are supported by CUPS have problems with the OS/2 fork but that's another topic.
Usually Canon and HP are almost the same devices, at least the printing engine is from the same chinese factory - to oversimplify it.

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The result is that current Canon printers are not very well supported by cups for OS/2. My MG7550 can only print on A4 paper as the gutenprint driver - modified from an earlier Canon printer - cannot access the cassette holding photo paper/envelopes and the colour output is not accurate with Blue tending to be closer to Purple.

For devices without PostScript and PCL support it will be easier to create a virtual PS driver on a supported OS (even a VM works) which can be facilated for printing from OS/2 workstations.

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At the moment it seems the best cups for OS/2 printers are HP - but check support is in the hplip package and no extra closed source "plugins" are required. Shame HP do not make an inkjet printer that can print directly onto printable CD/DVD.
By using the broken CUPS stuff it doesn't really matter. In general every PostScript and PCL5/6 compatible printing device should work without CUPS or special filters.

Quote
With regard to Crystal based soundcards: The 1 I had for a short period of time seemed to work - until it got stuck in a "repeat the sound forever" loop requiring a press of the Off button to resolve. This happened with both the crystal drivers and uniaud drivers so frequently that I gave up on the Crystal soundcard about 2 weeks after installing it. I seem to recall something about "buffers too small" being suggested as the cause of the problem but cannot remember if that was a hardware or software problem.

Better cards that utilise the supported CS-chipsets worked fine. Of course there were a lot of bad designs on the market also. So it became confusing for users at least.

Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2017, 08:13:56 pm »
Quote
But for a Community member and Laptop user this is a true Show stopper. That is simple and true.

In fact it is not a show stopper. It is simply inconvenient. Sound, and WiFi, have never worked on my Lenovo ThinkPad L530, but the machine still runs well (especially with ArcaOS). Sound, on that machine, is not too bad under win 10, but the speakers are pretty marginal for actual serious listening. I use an external device for WiFi, when I need it.

Quote
But for me this is still the wrong decision. Especially when it will not be possible to install from USB Media.

Right, or wrong, the decision was made based on making the least number of changes possible. Install from USB media is possible (in fact, USB DVD drives are supported, if the BIOS will support booting from one), but there just isn't anybody to do it, or properly test it, for the GA. They still need the DVD installer, for those machines that don't support booting from USB, so it makes sense to go that way, for now. Using DVD can also be a problem, if the machine doesn't have a DVD drive that can be booted, but it is expected that most people have updated by now. Closer to release date, i will probably post a method to use a CD drive. That worked with eCS 2.2b2, but I haven't tried it with ArcaOS, yet.

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containing an universal (quite easy: "no Network" Card selected, "no Sound" selected) clone

In fact, that is exactly how it works. ECS does it that way too. The "clone" is loaded into MEMDISK, and then it is configured to run, and booted from MEMDISK, to run the actual installer. The same will happen from a USB stick, eventually.

Quote
Very contraproductive in my honest opinion is to Keep a lot of Information about it as some Kind of "mystery" "closed Information" "top secret" instead of spreading the News!

I think you are expecting something that doesn't exist. There are a few new things, that have not, and probably won't be, discussed until release, but they are, in fact, pretty minor, and do not really impact on the big picture. In fact, most of it is available today, if you want it. ArcaOS simply puts it all together in one package. The big thing, IMO are some fixes that have been made to various parts of the OS, and no, I am not going to discuss those.

Quote
For this the solution is simple: as an "ordinary" clone does not Need more than 4GB at all you can have one for "legacy" and one for "Modern" Hardware.

One of the problems is that making a "clone" is not part of the license to use the OS/2 base. Apparently, OS/2 must be installed, as it came from IBM, then it can be modified, and that is exactly what is done with eCS, and ArcaOS. Even the installer is pushing the limits.

Quote
I think that we are noticing the weight of the "Legacy" of the platform.  There are a lot of things on the platform that we no longer use but it will be "taboo" just to think to take it off. I personally think that some of that legacy is a drag that is slowing us down.

I don't think that is a real problem. There is really nothing extra to install DOS/WinOS2 (which I assume is what you mean by "legacy"), other than a meg, or so, of files to add. Personally, I haven't installed that stuff for years. I went looking for a program to run in it, and couldn't find one.

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Maybe it can be good to discuss again what are the community favorite OS/2 applications.

Yes, do so. There will not be a lot of actual "applications" in ArcaOS, and those that are included are mostly to support the operating system. Things like Apache Open Office, for instance, will probably not be included, unless it is added as a convenience for the user to install AFTER they install ArcaOS. In fact, that is very unlikely, because it would add a lot to the size of the download. So, applications are already available, if you want them, and you will still need to get what you want, if you don't already have them.

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There is most definitely a "roadblock" with printer support if you have a modern Canon inkjet printer.

It is the same old, same old. OS/2 users need to choose their printers (and other things) carefully. There is nothing that can be done about manufacturers who refuse to support their products, other than to choose something from a manufacturer that does support their product. Canon printers, that work today, will work with ArcaOS. If they don't work today, they probably won't work with ArcaOS (although CUPS may eventually catch up). Today, I have an older HP PhotoSmart D110a printer, which works well (and installs perfectly under ArcaOS, using the CUPS that is installed with ArcaOS). I used Canon printers, for a while, and my brother still has one (MP620). Before that, I used Epson printers. To be blunt about it, Canon is better than Epson, and HP is the best that I ever used. HP is also better supported with CUPS (the ONLY modern printer driver, for OS/2) than either Epson, or Canon. In fact, I may never bother with another printer. I use a LOT  more ink, and paper, testing CUPS, to see if it works, than I do actually printing anything useful.

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2017, 09:23:05 pm »
Quote
But for a Community member and Laptop user this is a true Show stopper. That is simple and true.

In fact it is not a show stopper. It is simply inconvenient. Sound, and WiFi, have never worked on my Lenovo ThinkPad L530, but the machine still runs well (especially with ArcaOS). Sound, on that machine, is not too bad under win 10, but the speakers are pretty marginal for actual serious listening. I use an external device for WiFi, when I need it.

Quote
But for me this is still the wrong decision. Especially when it will not be possible to install from USB Media.

Right, or wrong, the decision was made based on making the least number of changes possible. Install from USB media is possible (in fact, USB DVD drives are supported, if the BIOS will support booting from one), but there just isn't anybody to do it, or properly test it, for the GA. They still need the DVD installer, for those machines that don't support booting from USB, so it makes sense to go that way, for now. Using DVD can also be a problem, if the machine doesn't have a DVD drive that can be booted, but it is expected that most people have updated by now. Closer to release date, i will probably post a method to use a CD drive. That worked with eCS 2.2b2, but I haven't tried it with ArcaOS, yet.

Quote
containing an universal (quite easy: "no Network" Card selected, "no Sound" selected) clone

In fact, that is exactly how it works. ECS does it that way too. The "clone" is loaded into MEMDISK, and then it is configured to run, and booted from MEMDISK, to run the actual installer. The same will happen from a USB stick, eventually.

Quote
Very contraproductive in my honest opinion is to Keep a lot of Information about it as some Kind of "mystery" "closed Information" "top secret" instead of spreading the News!

I think you are expecting something that doesn't exist. There are a few new things, that have not, and probably won't be, discussed until release, but they are, in fact, pretty minor, and do not really impact on the big picture. In fact, most of it is available today, if you want it. ArcaOS simply puts it all together in one package. The big thing, IMO are some fixes that have been made to various parts of the OS, and no, I am not going to discuss those.

Quote
For this the solution is simple: as an "ordinary" clone does not Need more than 4GB at all you can have one for "legacy" and one for "Modern" Hardware.

One of the problems is that making a "clone" is not part of the license to use the OS/2 base. Apparently, OS/2 must be installed, as it came from IBM, then it can be modified, and that is exactly what is done with eCS, and ArcaOS. Even the installer is pushing the limits.

I must confirm, that I can not believe what is written here, sorry.

- to say having no Sound is not so important because even under Windows 10 it sounds bad - Oh my god....What Kind of Argument is that? I have an X230T (very similar to the L530) - it soundsĀ“great with Windows, and even better the Sony Vaio Pro 13, that has a very very good Sound Quality....

- USB DVD Drives are supported - Yes - since eCS 2.0 RC 6 -> when Daniela Eggert during Warpstock Europe 2008 (!) told how easy it is to be achieved. Mensys then adopted this idea (just change the order of Drivers in config.sys, I worte aobut it for years now). With booting from USB I meant "USB Stick", if that is not possible with ArcaOS5 there is no improvement since the last 9 years. You must be joking - or I totally misunderstand what you have written

- well, there is no Need to discuss the "Various important fixes" to the OS - as nobody knows what one should talk about -> because it is that "TOP SECRET"! I am not expecting miracles, I am just hoping for some of the things that have been mentioned in the presentations - in fact that hopes are all gone.

- I can not understand what might be wrong with a clone license -> the clone is just used for Installation -> the clone IS the operating System I have the license for (and for Warp 4 I have plenty...). Once you sell an USB Stick with a clone, what is the diffence to an USB Stick with an Installation? Both leads to one working OS/2 System in the end...

Really - I usually appreciate all your comments and efforts, but it seems to me that you lost ground here. It is OK if it is Okay for you to have no Sound and so on, but to be honest, that is something I do not want to tell others around me.

In the end it seems that ArcaOS5 will be a System that is Fitting the Needs of industrial Clients, not less and not more.

Mensys wasted so much time they invested into a new installer - and forgot to update the System. ArcaOS5 now is coming with a new installers and updated Drivers, but there is no Support for "new" Hardware classes. One can find reasons on and on, but in the end reagrading Sound, WLAN and SNAP there are no News.

And by the way is very discouraging to read: "You must be part of a beta Group or sing a N... bla bla bla" if you want to have simple Information, instead of just confirming: NO this and that will not come......

Dave Yeo

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2017, 11:25:22 pm »
For myself, I haven't been told to keep anything secret besides the server where the beta ISOs are. I just don't think it's my place to talk too much about what is on the beta.
I also suspect that Doug's guess about the license that Arca Noae acquired from IBM includes having to first install OS/2 and then install the various add-ons.
As for USB boot, I was hoping for it but while just copying a clone is fairly simple, there's still the partitioning that needs to happen in a user friendly way and some kind of installer is still needed to install the network drivers.
Anyways it seems that the Arca Noae people are very busy and that's the reason that nothing is getting posted. Quite possibly they have a large industrial user with a deadline and if most of their income is going to come from industrial users, they're going to try to please them first. I doubt that the community is large enough to pay for all that much development.

Pete

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2017, 11:36:11 pm »
Hi Doug


Quote
There is most definitely a "roadblock" with printer support if you have a modern Canon inkjet printer.

It is the same old, same old. OS/2 users need to choose their printers (and other things) carefully. There is nothing that can be done about manufacturers who refuse to support their products, other than to choose something from a manufacturer that does support their product. Canon printers, that work today, will work with ArcaOS. If they don't work today, they probably won't work with ArcaOS (although CUPS may eventually catch up). Today, I have an older HP PhotoSmart D110a printer, which works well (and installs perfectly under ArcaOS, using the CUPS that is installed with ArcaOS). I used Canon printers, for a while, and my brother still has one (MP620). Before that, I used Epson printers. To be blunt about it, Canon is better than Epson, and HP is the best that I ever used. HP is also better supported with CUPS (the ONLY modern printer driver, for OS/2) than either Epson, or Canon. In fact, I may never bother with another printer. I use a LOT  more ink, and paper, testing CUPS, to see if it works, than I do actually printing anything useful.

I would have selected a HP printer but for the fact that I need to be able to print directly on printable CD/DVD - no stick on labels are not good enough - and HP simply do not make an inkjet printer with that capability.

I probably could have found a 2nd/3rd user HP with the capability but there again I could have repaired the 10 year old printer that was being replaced; it needed a printhead at around 66% of the cost of the MG7550 I purchased. Probably wore the printhead out in the early days of testing cups... :-)

I also selected the MG7550 as it was a direct replacement for the MG7150 which shows as having cups support. Sadly I was misguided by the presence of the cups driver as it is in fact an earlier model printer driver modified to work as badly with the MG7150 as it does with the MG7550.

So, even if cups seems to support your printer choice you may find that is not the case.

At least I can start VirtualPC, boot WinXP and print CD/DVD and photos from there.


Regarding DOS/Win: If you installed from an eCS CD then you certainly got DOS/Win support installed and configured regardless of whether you selected it or not. You would have needed to work through the config.sys removing all the unwanted DOS/Win lines and deleting the \os2\mdos directory.

Hopefully ArcaOS will not have that screwup.


Regards

Pete


Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2017, 12:04:15 am »
Quote
- to say having no Sound is not so important because even under Windows 10 it sounds bad - Oh my god....What Kind of Argument is that? I have an X230T (very similar to the L530) - it soundsĀ“great with Windows, and even better the Sony Vaio Pro 13, that has a very very good Sound Quality...

I didn't say it wasn't important. I did say that it is not a show stopper. Sorry, but the guy who does drivers is overworked already, and he will get to sound, and WiFi (not necessarily in that order), when it can be done. I have been told that neither one will be in the GA, and that both are high on the priority list for AFTER the GA.

Quote
With booting from USB I meant "USB Stick", if that is not possible with ArcaOS5 there is no improvement since the last 9 years.

It is possible, and it will be done. AFTER the GA. One step at a time.

Quote
- I can not understand what might be wrong with a clone license -> the clone is just used for Installation -> the clone IS the operating System I have the license for (and for Warp 4 I have plenty...). Once you sell an USB Stick with a clone, what is the diffence to an USB Stick with an Installation? Both leads to one working OS/2 System in the end...

Technically, it is easy. Legally? Well, talk to the lawyers. It is always best to err on the safe side of the law.

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In the end it seems that ArcaOS5 will be a System that is Fitting the Needs of industrial Clients, not less and not more.

It will fit the needs of most users. Some newer hardware will not be supported, but that is nothing new. That is the case today. First, get the installer checked out, with minimal changes, so it is possible to support the product. Then, get to the new stuff. That may not please you, but it is the only logical way to approach it when Arca Noae doesn't have an army of support people.

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And by the way is very discouraging to read: "You must be part of a beta Group or sing a N... bla bla bla" if you want to have simple Information, instead of just confirming: NO this and that will not come......

Sorry, but I am pushing my luck saying what I have. If you are not happy, send a message to Arca Noae, and ask for an official statement (just remember that EVERYBODY at Arca Noae, is busting their butt to get this right, so they don't have time for trivial questions). I can say that most people who get ArcaOS will be pleased. Some will be disappointed, but that is because they expect miracles. There will be no miracles. It will be a pretty solid operating system, that will install easily (in most cases - there are always surprises, and be sure to READ the documentation), and it will serve you well. The miracles come later.

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but in the end reagrading Sound, WLAN and SNAP there are no News.

There is news. It has been stated that new support will come, AFTER the ArcaOS GA.

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I would have selected a HP printer but for the fact that I need to be able to print directly on printable CD/DVD - no stick on labels are not good enough - and HP simply do not make an inkjet printer with that capability.

Stick on labels are highly hazardous to CD/DVD drives. In fact, I hear that CD/DVD drives are not even being installed on a lot of new systems, so the requirement to print on the media is also going away.

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So, even if cups seems to support your printer choice you may find that is not the case.

In fact, that has always been the case. When I first got my HP D110a, it was not supported by CUPS. Since it wasn't a new printer, it didn't take long before it was supported (but not perfectly). Now, it seems to be supported properly. FWIW, it was not too long after Apple supported it (with CUPS), before Paul S. got it going in OS/2. Canon printer, on the other hand, don't have an OS/2 version of the support module, Canon won't create one (probably part of a contract with Microsoft), and there is no source for anybody else to create one. If you can't get wheels for your car, I guess you don't drive the car.

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Hopefully ArcaOS will not have that screwup.

Don't bet on it, but it will be addressed, at the appropriate time. Since it is a non issue, it is very low on the priority list.

Pete

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2017, 03:26:41 am »
Hi Doug


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I would have selected a HP printer but for the fact that I need to be able to print directly on printable CD/DVD - no stick on labels are not good enough - and HP simply do not make an inkjet printer with that capability.

Stick on labels are highly hazardous to CD/DVD drives. In fact, I hear that CD/DVD drives are not even being installed on a lot of new systems, so the requirement to print on the media is also going away.

What... like LPs disappeared due to the advent of CD?  ;-)

It really is of no interest whether DVD/CD drives are fitted as standard to new systems as I rarely purchase any pre-built system. Until I no longer have CD/DVD playback media that I want to make a copy of a DVD/CD burner is a necessity as is the ability to print on the media.


Regards

Pete

Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2017, 06:48:11 am »
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What... like LPs disappeared due to the advent of CD?  ;-)

No, it is more like floppies. They just don't hold enough data (even BluRay), and they are not as robust, or reliable, as USB sticks. USB 3.x has made USB sticks as fast as hard disks, and it is even likely that hard disks, as we know them, will go away in the not too distant future. The cost of production is not dropping for CD/DVD media, and the quality is dropping quickly, while the cost for USB sticks is dropping quickly, and the quality is actually improving.

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It really is of no interest whether DVD/CD drives are fitted as standard to new systems as I rarely purchase any pre-built system.

Have you tried to buy an IDE DVD drive lately? They may still be found, but they are very expensive compared to SATA drives. Once the production requirements for SATA drives drops off, the price will go up, very quickly. About 4 years ago, I went looking for an IDE DVD writer. I found a source, but the price was about $250. The equivalent SATA drive cost me $20.

I also point out that it is difficult, if not impossible, to find a video recorder (for TV), that uses DVD media. All of them seem to be using hard disks, and that will likely be replaced by SSD, once the price gets low enough (it probably is now).

I don't know what you are using CD/DVD media for, but I would suggest that you keep an open mind about finding a better way.