Author Topic: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?  (Read 14490 times)

ivan

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2017, 01:30:10 am »
Thanks Pete,

The UEFI Legacy/Compatibility mode setting I what I assumed it should be from my reading up on it (strangely enough the ASRock board we got for testing has those settings on by default). 

The AHCI driver is good to know about but there are far too many unknowns but I expect we will eventually get it working even if we have to make a tailored image and copy that across.

We can use DFSee (boot from USB floppy, USB stick or CD) to see and partition any hard disks so we are part way there.  The eCS 2.2 demo throws a wobbly saying it can't read the hard disk (partitioned but not formatted) but then it never liked any of our AMD powered workstations anyway.

I just wish that there was some information available about what HW this new installer is supposed to install on - Intel, AMD, current, 1 or more years old etc. rather than a complete silence.
 

Pete

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2017, 01:56:27 am »
Hi ivan

Well, if the objective for ArcaOS is to be the way forward for businesses running OS/2 on fairly recent/current hardware then I guess the main target is AMD/Intel 64bit and mutlicore systems.

However, there will surely be a lot of support for earlier hardware.

What there will not be is support for "leading edge" hardware such as the latest in gamer workstations with super-douper graphics.

I've not had a lot of problems installing various releases of eCS to various AMD64/Multicore systems over the years - especially since David took over ACPI development. However, we all have different experiences and I'm sure you have a list of problems encountered...


About AHCI: I have 2 versions of AHCI 1.32 (current release) here. Version 1 is by David and supplied with eCS 2.2 beta2; Version2 is the Arca Noae release, also by David. Version 1 recognises and works with the onboard SATA controller dedicated to eSATA; Version 2 totally ignores that controller. David assures me the binary code for both drivers is identical... This is the problem that, hopefully, the AHCI Version 2 driver will resolve.


Regards

Pete

Dave Yeo

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #92 on: April 23, 2017, 02:00:00 am »
I don't think that ArcaOS is going have much different drivers then eCS2.2b2+all the Arca Noae updates. Some stuff has been updated and there are a few new OS components but most of the effort has gone into design, which I think is fairly good, and the new installer, which has turned out to be harder then thought.
Once 5.0 is released, the Arca Noae team can go back to updating drivers and writing the needed wifi, usb3 etc drivers instead of working on the installer etc.
I'd guess that buying 5.0 will also include a subscription.

Alex Taylor

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2017, 07:12:57 am »
I wouldn't expect significantly different hardware support than is currently available through the latest subscription drivers.  What is supported through those should give you a pretty solid idea of what hardware ArcaOS will support.

I believe some very old NIC drivers (various MCA and ISA boards, mainly) are not going to be included out of the box due to the virtual impossibility of supporting them on modern hardware.  However, the installation of third-party drivers is allowed for.

(Note: I am not speaking on behalf of Arca Noae.)

Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #94 on: April 23, 2017, 08:06:49 am »
Quote
At the moment we don't even have any ides about the hardware it is supposed to run on.  Maybe some of the beta testers could enlighten us as to the hardware they used.

If your machine will run eCS, it will run ArcaOS. If your devices have a driver today, ArcaOS will use the driver (even if you need to supply it yourself). Be aware, that a few drivers are not being included because of licensing concerns, but that doesn't mean they won't work, if you want to install them. If your machine will not run eCS 2.2b2, it is unlikely (but not impossible) that ArcaOS will run on it.

For my part, I have tested on:
-Lenovo ThinkPad T510. Intel.
-Lenovo ThinkPad L530 (UEFI). Intel.
-Asus M3A78-EM quad core. AMD.
-Asus M3A78-EM triple core. AMD.
-Dell Dimension 4300. AMD, I think.
-VirtualBox, under win 10, using various configurations.

I intend to install on:
-My antique IBM ThinkPad A22e. Intel. (eCS 2.2b2 works as well as it can with only 256 meg).
-My main system Asus A88XM-A (UEFI). AMD. (eCS 2.2b2 works pretty well. I expect that ArcaOS will be better).
when they fix a couple of problems in the installer, that are proving to be difficult.

I must say that the final product, once it is installed, is running very well. IMO it is definitely a step up from eCS 2.2b2. The new installer is being somewhat stubborn, but it will be in shape, when ArcaOS is released.

Quote
Can it run the hard disks in AHCI mode or do they have to be set to IDE?

Arca Noae developed the AHCI driver, so it will be included. To be specific, if the driver is in the Arca Noae driver pack, it will also be in ArcaOS.

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How well does it work with UEFI and what setting are important?

As long as the machine BIOS has "Legacy Mode", it should work. Apparently, there are a few machines that don't have that feature.

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Will we get answers or will there be a deathly silence aka eCS?

That depends on whether they have carted Lewis off to a padded cell, or not. He (and others) is working his tail off, trying to get this right. 

To be quite honest, the best answer is "You won't know, for sure, until you try it". That is pretty much the same as it has always been with any version of OS/2, and any new machine. There are always surprises. More often good, than bad, in my experience.

You will probably want to install on a test machine, or in a virtual machine, to see what the installer does, before you try it on a live machine. The installer is a little different, but similar, so users who are familiar with the eCS installer could easily get themselves into trouble, if they don't pay attention to what they are doing. As usual, trying to install, when windows, has hogged the whole disk, is going to be "interesting", but the tools to do it are there, and it has always worked, for me, after I figured out what needs to be done. As usual, be sure that you have a GOOD backup, BEFORE you mess something up.

Paul Smedley

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #95 on: April 23, 2017, 10:25:38 am »
Hi Doug,

Quote
Can it run the hard disks in AHCI mode or do they have to be set to IDE?

Arca Noae developed the AHCI driver, so it will be included. To be specific, if the driver is in the Arca Noae driver pack, it will also be in ArcaOS.

Not quite true re: AHCI. Arca Noae currently *maintain* the AHCI driver - they did not develop. In fact, Arca Noae didn't even exist when the AHCI driver development started.

See the original checkins at https://trac.netlabs.org/ahci/timeline?from=Apr+23%2C+2017&daysback=4000&authors=&milestone=on&ticket=on&changeset=on&wiki=on&update=Update for confirmation.

Cheers,

Paul

Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2017, 06:42:21 pm »
Quote
Not quite true re: AHCI. Arca Noae currently *maintain* the AHCI driver - they did not develop.

Sorry, I did mean to say "maintain", not "develop". It was late.

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #97 on: April 23, 2017, 09:48:18 pm »
Here is a text I just posted at os2.org in German and translated it "on the fly" using Bing Translator (Inverted text is written by another user there):

Sepp Mayr wrote:

A little relaxation could do no harm here some of the discussions.

I try to relax, although on OS should appear only on the 31.3.17, then the 15.4.17 and it so far except one 'beware, it might soon go' - announcement nothing further happened.


As I see it. Especially since you can supplement that the system originally quarter of 2016 has been announced for the 3.te, and - also ruptured - stating "come's this week" we were already at 5 shifts.


Of course you can write what you want, nothing will come faster or earlier. Anyway, you can see all of two pages:


-"Better it wrong he adjusted as cooking does not come"


a.) Yes, you can agree only the principle,


on the other hand, it is a purely rhetorical lump-sum argument that you can apply anywhere, and here in the particular case:


(b).) the same argument was already thoroughly performed at eCS in the field

c.) it's always like that you better fail his cleaned up things as not at all


The disastrous external representation by Arca Noae remains unfortunate from my point of view but in terms of everything that goes on ArcaOS since the first deadline (30.9.2016):


-There are announcements on the part of Arca Noae only if (even used) deadlines have already passed


-in forums there are no messages, justification for this: "You don't have time and sit constantly at completion"

-> that seems, to say, downright ridiculous! To just give a hint in a forum: "So and so" requires maximum 5 to 10 minutes. Such reasons but unfortunately cause falling credibility in my view into a bottomless pit.


-If other users or "beta testers (see os2world) to want to say something, must you first make it clear that you speak"in the name of ArcaNoae", and on the basis of these or those agreements can say anything to: so please - worse it's not!" What could be revealed here for incredible secrets? Even IBM seems not to itch it, that almost all versions of OS/2 Herum whiz freely available on the Internet, but ArcaNoae has created now of course product a "top secret"!


Or this information here:


aschn wrote:

Some unofficial info (so vaguely) to the delay, as far as I can assess it from a distance, and the wait easier:


An important component of the system to the installation, which is incorrect and out of date, has been replaced. In tests, it has arisen that the new component in all constellations to the original works.


In my opinion that's worth for a delay.


Also this throughout the eCS/Mensys (unfortunately) classical style: if already a delay of over six months on the last minute is an "important" component of system (huh... Please not that mention that his könnte...huhuhuhuuuu...) not working properly, what is then first with the "not important system components"? And what prevents to announce a price for the product in this context it or for more information about the system?


Currently for half a year only negative information remain hanging, instead you would have much positive to publish may already with more openness, notes to any previously unsupported hardware or something. But - it couldn't be easier - if there is information about such questions, next version will over time to the direct (5.01 or 5.1)verwiesen. Looks too familiar (we had also already once in the 90's on Windows, I think...).


Everything I read / see can is that apparently not much to the eCS 2.2Beta2 will do State themselves, except that there will be a new installer, which you apparently - as Thorolf believed right from the outset - has wore.


Contrary to earlier (eCS) time, I must confess, that no longer upsets me, I think it's just very unfortunate that also ArcaNoae same mistakes, the same approach and same arguments is again doing to annihilate the tedious and built by good driver development reputation even when the last homeopathic existing residual fraction of users.


I would let me but of course very happy to a better teaching, then please still before there are only laptops more BIOS containing a CSM/compatibility mode in the UEFI.

Last edited by Sigurd on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 21:35, a total of 1 times changed.


OS/2 versus hardware - maximum warp!

guzzi

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #98 on: April 23, 2017, 11:19:26 pm »
Here are some answers, this was just posted on the arca noae site:

 ArcaOS 5.0: Blue Lion is coming

The final beta for ArcaOS 5.0 is due for release to beta testers within hours. We’ve spent considerable time nailing down the last of what we consider to have been critical issues (likely installation pitfalls) to ensure that our users are able to get the operating system installed and get on with using and enjoying the new version as soon as possible. While our intent was to provide more details along the way, our focus has remained on the software, and as we are all engineers here, in one form or another, we’ve all been engaged in developing and testing.

Meanwhile, some announcements:

Pricing for ArcaOS 5.0 will be in two tiers, set apart by the level and length of support and maintenance bundled with each. The personal license will retail for $129, with an introductory price of $99 for the first 90 days following release. This includes six months of support and maintenance updates and fixes. The commercial license is priced at $229, and includes one year of support and maintenance. Subscription services will be available for each version and it will be possible to bundle extended support and maintenance subscriptions at the time of ArcaOS license purchase.

Volume discounts will be available, as well, with different discount levels for personal and commercial licenses.
This entry was posted in Arca Noae, Community, New software releases, News and tagged 5.0, arca noae, arcaos,
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 11:42:44 pm by guzzi »

Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #99 on: April 23, 2017, 11:39:39 pm »
Quote
ArcaOS 5.0: Blue Lion is coming

No doubt about that.

Quote
The final beta for ArcaOS 5.0 is due for release to beta testers within hours.

We, the testers, will determine if it is ready, but the final call will be made by the principles in Arca Noae. Another day, if all goes well. A couple of days, if not, unless something very serious is discovered.

ivan

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #100 on: April 23, 2017, 11:55:03 pm »
Quote
ArcaOS 5.0: Blue Lion is coming

Six months time, maybe. 

If they are only now getting down to real beta testing and those testers do a real test it will take at least that long and we still don't know what new hardware it will install on - if we can install it we can generally run it.

It would help if a FULL list of what hardware the testers have available so we, the end users, would know if we need to 'go it alone' and endeavour to install on new hardware or wait and then try with this new installer.

OK, so we now know what the costs are but it is still a toss up between the new installer and just getting the drivers.
 

guzzi

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2017, 12:28:11 am »
Quote
ArcaOS 5.0: Blue Lion is coming

Six months time, maybe. 
 

A few days seems more likely. I was not part of the beta test team but I have installed a beta version on my pc today. As far as I can tell the drivers are the latest versions i.e. acpi.psd 3.23.05 is able to use much higher irq then before. I see another bootloader (arcaloader 1.04), kernel 14.200.

A list of tested hardware would be handy, I agree- I suspect however that that is hardly a priority at the moment.

Doug Bissett

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2017, 12:42:07 am »
Quote
Six months time, maybe.

I will be very surprised if it is 3 days.

Quote
If they are only now getting down to real beta testing and those testers do a real test it will take at least that long and we still don't know what new hardware it will install on - if we can install it we can generally run it.

The installer is really the only part left to test in depth. It mostly worked for beta 16. As for the hardware, how many times do you need to be told "If it works today, with eCS, it will likely work with ArcaOS", possibly with a few pleasant surprises.

Quote
It would help if a FULL list of what hardware the testers have available so we, the end users, would know if we need to 'go it alone' and endeavour to install on new hardware or wait and then try with this new installer.

It doesn't matter what hardware the testers use, there will always be some differences, and those differences could cause problems, or, let it work. I have two Asus M3A78-EM machines. One is a quad core, and one is a triple core. One of the betas had a problem where it installed, and ran okay, on the triple core. It installed okay, on the quad core, but got into a reboot loop, almost immediately after the OS/2 blob. So, if I say it works with an Asus M3A78-EM motherboard, I am telling the truth, but if you try it, and it doesn't work, you will call me a liar. Arca Noae is a small company, they cannot possibly do the testing that a company like IBM did. That does mean that there are more things that can, and will, be missed. So, we are back to the statement: "You won't know, for sure, until you try it".

Quote
OK, so we now know what the costs are but it is still a toss up between the new installer and just getting the drivers.

From what I know, the drivers will be available with the Arca Noae driver package. I am not sure that the new, Arca Noae patched, kernel will be available that way. I could be wrong.

I did a test today: I was able to run the Clamd.exe, that is in the netlabs-rel repository (it uses a HUGE amount of upper shared memory - about 1.2 GB), Firefox, AOO 4.13, and a few other things, all at the same time. All were set to use upper shared memory, and they all worked together. Try that with eCS, it won't work, without problems, even if you leave out Clamd.exe. ArcaOS is like a breath of fresh air.

ivan

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #103 on: April 24, 2017, 12:32:13 pm »
Hi Doug, thanks for your input.

Quote
The installer is really the only part left to test in depth. It mostly worked for beta 16. As for the hardware, how many times do you need to be told "If it works today, with eCS, it will likely work with ArcaOS", possibly with a few pleasant surprises.

Only one problem here we don't have eCS (ACP2 for us) and all I know about its installer is what I have read here and things I have gleaned from the eCS 2.2 DEMO iso which almost worked on one of our workstations.

This is why I have been concerned by the dearth of information available.  It also makes me wonder I we will have to 'roll our own' bootable CD/DVD just as we did in the past.

Quote
I am not sure that the new, Arca Noae patched, kernel will be available that way.

Now that is very interesting.  What is it patched for becomes the obvious question but I suspect that you are not allowed to divulge that information.

guzzi

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Re: Are you getting ready for ArcaOS?
« Reply #104 on: April 24, 2017, 03:05:21 pm »

Now that is very interesting.  What is it patched for becomes the obvious question but I suspect that you are not allowed to divulge that information.


Doug mentioned the much better behaviour re upper shared memory. So at a guess....