Author Topic: configuring the rpm release of cups  (Read 3149 times)

Pete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 26
  • Posts: 529
    • View Profile
configuring the rpm release of cups
« on: April 16, 2017, 03:22:03 am »
Hi All

Thought I'd give the rpm version of cups a try so installed the ANPM, fired it up and took a guess that the package simply called cups would get everything downloaded and installed.

Well, that was successful - ANPM tells me everything got downloaded and installed. I then rebooted for libpath changes to take effect.

Now, how do I go about configuring cups?

I started the cupsd.exe as a detached process and fired up Seamonkey - except Seamonkey would not start. As Seamonkey was running fine prior to installing the cups files I can only guess that a file installed as part of the cups installation does not work with Seamonkey version 2.35a2. I updated Seamonkey to version 2.35b7 which made no difference. Interestingly pmdll reckoned both versions of Seamonkey worked fine...

Having compared this system with my main system where Seamonkey 2.35b7 works fine I installed the current pango100.dll  and now have a working Seamonkey on that system.

I pointed Seamonkey to http://localhost:631/ which results in a "Failed to connect. The connection was refused ... Though the site seems valid the browser was unable to establish a connection"

Does the rpm version of cups not have a working browser interface?

As it seems ages since I last configured a cups printer using the command line I thought I'd refresh my memory by having a read of the docs starting with /usr/share/doc/cups/index.html however it seems that the section I need called Adding printers and classes is not among the files installed as Seamonkey gives a ".../usr/share/doc/cups/admin cannot be found".

Someone said that using yum/rpm to install software would be easier? Maybe I am simply missing something, somewhere...


Regards

Pete





Andreas Schnellbacher

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 14
  • Posts: 234
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2017, 02:14:04 pm »
Interestingly pmdll reckoned both versions of Seamonkey worked fine...
PMDLL can't know which DLLs are loaded after program start. It depends on the type of DLL loading whether PMDLL checks all required DLLs. Of more value for the Mozilla apps is to check xul.dll instead. That has helped me several times.

Additionally, I would check the system for doubled DLL files. The directory \ecs\dll has many of them. I rename or delete all gcc*.dll, libc*.dll, stdcpp.dll and supcpp.dll from a freshly installed eCS 2.2 beta 2. IIRC, ANPM required also to replace vrobjex.dll of eCS.

Doug Bissett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 38
  • Posts: 927
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2017, 07:30:00 pm »
Hi Pete.

Is this a new RPM/YUM install, or have you kept it up to date as you installed various programs? Just installing ANPM (RPM/YUM) does not install all of the requirements for programs that you already have installed (like Seamonkey). You still need to install everything that is called for those programs. The ANPM bootstrap is only enough to make RPM/YUM smart enough to be able to do that.

Pete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 26
  • Posts: 529
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2017, 08:18:41 pm »
Hi Doug

A new, never installed before, ANPM/yum/rpm.

I already had everything installed for Seamonkey to work fine. The actual process of installing ANPM/yum/rpm/cups packages seems to have installed a later version of a/some dll file/files which, it seems, was/were not backwards compatible.

I suspect yum/rpm are best installed during OS installation to avoid the problems that can be encountered by adding them at a later date.

However, the real question is: Does the rpm cups release actually work? Followed by how to setup a printer? and Can I use the bjnp port from my non-rpm cups install? - if not then the exercise is in vain anyway. Presumably I will have to select to install gutenprint as that did not get automatically selected during installation?


Regards

Pete



Doug Bissett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 38
  • Posts: 927
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 04:50:56 am »
Quote
I already had everything installed for Seamonkey to work fine. The actual process of installing ANPM/yum/rpm/cups packages seems to have installed a later version of a/some dll file/files which, it seems, was/were not backwards compatible.

Precisely. In fact, you really should remove ALL of the old, manually installed stuff, but the YUM paths coming first should overcome that, although they still haven't figured out that the dot (./) entry will also cause problems, depending on what a user may have done in the past. There is also a lot more to it than just DLLs.

Quote
I suspect yum/rpm are best installed during OS installation to avoid the problems that can be encountered by adding them at a later date.

True. In fact, it is probably the only way to get it close to right. With an old, converted, install, you need to go through every program, and install all of the required packages (using ANPM), as called in the the program documentation, to be sure that they are the latest, and that they are in the right place. The biggest exposure is if you ever put something into a program directory, that should never be there, but some program specific support should be there, so it can be difficult to determine what to do with that stuff. One suggestion, is to uninstall the old software, make sure that nothing (except data) is left, then install it again. That should get rid of stray stuff that shouldn't be there.

Quote
However, the real question is: Does the rpm cups release actually work? Followed by how to setup a printer? and Can I use the bjnp port from my non-rpm cups install? - if not then the exercise is in vain anyway. Presumably I will have to select to install gutenprint as that did not get automatically selected during installation?

It works well, with my HP D110a, in ArcaOS, but the installer puts all of the parts in place. The printer configuration is done with the "Install Cups Printer" tool (CupsGUI). Gutenprint is installed, in the unixroot directory structure (it may have been put there by the ArcaOS installer). One thing that was found in early ArcaOS testing, was that it needs the "which" package, but didn't call it as being required. I don't know if that got fixed outside of the ArcaOS stuff, or even if it needs it (probably does).

I don't know about the bjnp support, but I am interested to know, because my brother has a Canon printer (MP620). It works pretty well, after fighting with it to get it going. Last time I set it up, I had to use an older version of bjnp to make it work, but that was about a year ago, and I am not sure which version of CUPS it was (probably 2.0).

Pete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 26
  • Posts: 529
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 04:21:07 pm »
Hi Doug

Well, installing cups here has not installed gutenprint. I guess it is not automatically selected as not all printers need the gutenprint support. Presumably mention of any necessary extra packages required happens sometime during the setting up of a cups printer?

You mention the "Install Cups Printer" tool (CupsGUI) but neglect to say where to find it - or is this something that should appear after the cups files were installed but did not? If you mean the browser based interface that does not work - possibly cupsd.exe is not starting, does not appear in any process list. Presumably cupsd (cups daemon) is started in a Startup folder but is the incantation different to the non-rpm cupsd.exe apart from path?

If you mean the Install/Manage Printer objects in the Desktop -> Local System ->Printers folder how do I switch those from German(?) to English to have a chance of setting up a printer? Resolved - simply copied the English version of printmen.msg from my main system.

No, I doubt you mean this printer install app as selecting Install a local or network printer (CUPS-based)  closes the app with nothing else happening.

When/If I eventually get to set up a cups(rpm) printer I will need to use the bjnp printer port; bjnp.exe 1.9.2 requires the installation of cups17.dll - something else that a user would have to know as cups(rpm) does not include the port or support file. I guess cups17.dll should be copied into /usr/lib where other cups related dll files live.

So far this yum/rpm installation of cups is harder work than installing from the (non-rpm) ecups zip files.


Regards

Pete

ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 24
  • Posts: 632
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 06:37:15 pm »
Pete, I think you have discovered the BIG problem with the rpm/yum method of installing anything - it is dumb and will not work if anything else is there and it has not been given exact specifications on what to install (just look at the 'migrating from native ghostscript' thread).

For the rpm/yum install method to work it need some way of setting up what it is supposed to install especially where there are several options that may, or may not, be required.

Doug Bissett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 38
  • Posts: 927
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 07:39:49 pm »
Quote
Well, installing cups here has not installed gutenprint. I guess it is not automatically selected as not all printers need the gutenprint support. Presumably mention of any necessary extra packages required happens sometime during the setting up of a cups printer?

I don't think that setting up the printer will do it. I don't know what triggers installing it, other than selecting it.

Quote
You mention the "Install Cups Printer" tool (CupsGUI) but neglect to say where to find it

It is where it has always been: http://trac.netlabs.org/ecups/wiki/CupsPort.

Quote
possibly cupsd.exe is not starting, does not appear in any process list.

Well, that is the first problem to fix. Try starting it from a command line, it should either run (with a black screen), or fail with some sort of message.

Quote
No, I doubt you mean this printer install app as selecting Install a local or network printer (CUPS-based)  closes the app with nothing else happening.

CUPSD.EXE must be running.

Quote
When/If I eventually get to set up a cups(rpm) printer I will need to use the bjnp printer port; bjnp.exe 1.9.2 requires the installation of cups17.dll - something else that a user would have to know as cups(rpm) does not include the port or support file. I guess cups17.dll should be copied into /usr/lib where other cups related dll files live.

No, something like that, which is not managed by ANPM, should be in /usr/local/lib (which may not exist, but should be in LIBPATH). BJNP.EXE should be in /usr/local/sbin which should also be in the PATH statement, but may not exist.

Quote
So far this yum/rpm installation of cups is harder work than installing from the (non-rpm) ecups zip files.

So far, you haven't cleaned out the cruft from before, and that is probably causing grief. Did you use WarpIn to UNINSTALL all of the stuff that is replaced by YUM? Did you remove all of the things that you installed by ZIP? Did you UNINSTALL the old CUPS? Unfortunately, ANPM (YUM/RPM) does NOT do any of that for you, and that leaves a lot of possibilities for finding incorrect DLLs, and other things. As you noted, the best way to start with ANPM (RPM/YUM) is to start with a fresh install. There is a LOT of cleanup to do if you start with an old install.

Quote
For the rpm/yum install method to work it need some way of setting up what it is supposed to install especially where there are several options that may, or may not, be required.

The way that that is done, is to READ the program instructions, and install everything that it calls for, whether you think it is already installed, or not. The program sorts it out, and installs what you need (as long as the instructions are correct, and that has been known to be a problem sometimes).

You must remember that RPM/YUM is designed to have full control over your system. In *NIX that is the case. In OS/2, there are many other ways to do things, and RPM/YUM doesn't know about that.  The easy way to overcome that problem, is to simply remove all of the things that RPM/YUM doesn't control, and install them using RPM/YUM. The bad part about that, is that RPM/YUM doesn't have everything that you might need, so those things need to be installed in some other way. Once you get over the desire to control what is on your system, and just let RPM/YUM do it for you (using ANPM as a front end processor, to make it easy), it all starts to work properly.

Having said all of that, I will suggest that you go back to what was working, and start using RPM/YUM when you do a new install. It will make life a lot easier. Be assured, that CUPS works well, when properly installed, but CUPS is a pretty complicated program (as you well know), and getting all of the parts to work together takes some planning. CUPS, from RPM/YUM, is not the same as what you may have installed in other ways, it does require that everything works in the RPM/YUM way, and it won't cooperate if something is missing (or possibly duplicated elsewhere).

One problem, that I know about, is that there is a package called "sdl" (lower case), that will prevent an updated package "SDL" (upper case) from being installed. If "sdl" is installed, uninstall it, and install "SDL", but watch for other things that may be uninstalled with it. You may need to reinstall them. ffmpeg will install "sdl", if "SDL" is not already installed, for instance. That is a packaging problem, that nobody seems to want to fix.

ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 24
  • Posts: 632
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 08:44:47 pm »
Quote
The way that that is done, is to READ the program instructions, and install everything that it calls for, whether you think it is already installed, or not. The program sorts it out, and installs what you need (as long as the instructions are correct, and that has been known to be a problem sometimes).

In my mind it should be the responsibility of the installer to do the 'reading' of the instructions and then check what is installed, buildlevel etc., and check what options the person doing the install wants and only then install what is required.

In Pete's case it appears that it is not offering any options to install when it should be asking for, at least, the printer type if not the exact model.  This is not good especially when non technical people are trying to rely on it to install what they need to get their external equipment up and running.

Pete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 26
  • Posts: 529
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 02:40:02 am »
Hi Doug

Should there be some instructions with the cups package?

It seems that cupsd.exe does not want to start; using the command cupsd.exe in a command line window opened in /usr/sbin results in the prompt returning with no sign of an error - but cupsd.exe is not in the eComCenter dropdown Process list and TOP does not indicate it is running. Using "detach cupsd.exe" gives a PID but cupsd.exe is still not in the Process list or displayed by TOP. I had already set the LogLevel to debug and as no log gets generated I can only guess that cupsd.exe is not starting due to a missing support file...

The prior non-rpm cups install and support files should not be causing problems as the rpm stuff is before everything in Path and only preceded by the "." in LibPath. There are no config.sys entries for the non-rpm cups at all.


Regards

Pete

Andi B.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 12
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 08:33:07 am »
Quote
In my mind it should be the responsibility of the installer to do the 'reading' of the instructions and then check what is installed, buildlevel etc.,...
You're kidding, do you? You mean scan ALL available drives (including maybe currently not accessible lan shares, ...) for every single dll the installer wants to install and check bldlevel (which does not exist for many files) and deleting stuff found on any other partition. Only think about how many builds Paul has offered for download - a big thank to him by the way - and then think about how an installer should decide which dll from which package is the best. And the other dlls an installer should delete? You ask for big troubles.

Back to the basics of rpm/yum. Put into your libpath/path the %unixroot%/... directories as suggested and done by ANPM to the front. If you need the .; put it after the %unixroot% dirs or at the end. Not before (unfortunately ANPM does not do it for you but leave it in front :(. Now all your rpm/yum stuff will run out of the box.

When you've done the above and cupsd.exe does still not run look at the error log. And yes cups is a big piece of software. There are a lot of things which can go wrong. But for me the rpm version was the first which I got running stable. And I tried different versions over the years....

Doug Bissett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 38
  • Posts: 927
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2017, 05:49:43 pm »
Quote
Should there be some instructions with the cups package?

ArcaOS contains instructions in %UNIXROOT%\usr\share\doc\cups-libs-* (expand to match your system), in multiple languages. I don't know if that is something that ArcaOS adds, or if it comes with the RPM download. In fact, there is nothing new there, as far as getting CUPSD.EXE to run.

Quote
TOP does not indicate it is running.

It does on my system, so it probably isn't running.

Do you have PMDLL? If so, drop CUPSD.EXE on it, and look for red entries. Be sure that you are in the correct directory.

Quote
only preceded by the "." in LibPath.

That might cause the problem, if the dot is finding something that shouldn't be there. Try removing the dot, and reboot, to test. I argue that the dot entry should come AFTER the *NIX stuff, but those who should know, say it should be first. Note, that ANPM will complain about that, if you run it. Just tell it to ignore it, but there is a setting to always ignore it, if you decide to use it that way.

Doug Bissett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 38
  • Posts: 927
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2017, 06:24:30 pm »
Quote
The way that that is done, is to READ the program instructions, and install everything that it calls for, whether you think it is already installed, or not. The program sorts it out, and installs what you need (as long as the instructions are correct, and that has been known to be a problem sometimes).

In my mind it should be the responsibility of the installer to do the 'reading' of the instructions and then check what is installed, buildlevel etc., and check what options the person doing the install wants and only then install what is required.

In Pete's case it appears that it is not offering any options to install when it should be asking for, at least, the printer type if not the exact model.  This is not good especially when non technical people are trying to rely on it to install what they need to get their external equipment up and running.

Best change your mind. In most cases, there is no bldlevel information, and date/time mean absolutely nothing. Packages that are installed by ANPM (RPM/YUM), should install all of the requirements, but that depends on the RPM package being properly done, and that has been known to be a problem, sometimes (those who package those things are still learning). Programs that are installed outside of ANPM, could automatically install the requirements, by executing the YUM commands, BUT, I am sure that you, and others, would complain loudly if they did that, plus that would assume that you have RPM/YUM installed, and have kept it up to date (this thread shows that that is not always the case).

CUPS install has NOTHING, at all, to do with the printer type, and model. That is done, by the user, using the CUPS package (CUPSD.EXE must run). There are two options, one is to use the CUPS tools to configure the printer, THEN, you must make an OS/2 printer object for it, the other is to use the CUPSWIZ tool, that is at netlabs. That does the CUPS configuration, and it makes the OS/2 printer object.

ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 24
  • Posts: 632
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2017, 06:44:39 pm »
Quote
CUPS install has NOTHING, at all, to do with the printer type, and model.

So you are saying the the rpm/yum install installs all the various backends regardless of if they are needed or not.  I would have thought that the installer would at least want to know which printer type to allow it to install the correct backend.

Sorry but I am first and foremost an engineer and have this tendency to apply that thinking to computers and their software.  After all computers are supposed to be logical machines, but what I am seeing with this rpm/yum thing does not appear that logical.


Pete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 26
  • Posts: 529
    • View Profile
Re: configuring the rpm release of cups
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2017, 07:16:55 pm »
Hi Doug

I checked cupsd.exe using pmdll with directory set to /usr/sbin - and no errors... Either pmdll is not working right or cupsd.exe goes into "hiding" after starting and cannot be seen by any system tools or the browser pointed at http://localhost:631/

As suggested by yourself and Andi B I have tried moving the ".;" to after the *nix libpath entries and rebooted with no change, cupsd.exe still does not seem to be running; No log entries generated by my attempts to start cupsd.exe

My best guess is that cupsd.exe is not running and that a(some) support file(s) is(are) missing.

How is cupsd.exe started on a working rpm-cups system? - Just wondering if there is any special incantation required.

Regarding choice of printer make/model: As gutenprint was not installed during cups installation I doubt my printer - and many others - will be available for selection during the setting up a cups printer stage. There should be something at the cups installation stage asking the user what, if any, support package to install along with information to help the user make a, hopefully correct, choice.


Regards

Pete