Author Topic: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help  (Read 8153 times)

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2014, 06:12:53 pm »
Hi Boris.

<personal opinion>I don't think that Eugene is violating the GPL license (since he is not using it, he is using LGPL), He is just simple a bad open source citizen since he is closing source code and linking it to close source. There is no law against it. </personal opinion>

Let's stop this discussion and let's help the OS/2 community to get more source code and more open source software.

I really need to have this software compiling to release the source code to the public as it should be.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Boris

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2014, 06:15:36 pm »
AFAIK, no, you can't link closed-source code to GPL code.
If Eugene has got the source under LGPL, then there is really no problem (excluding the moral one).
I've fixed my post.
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Andreas Schnellbacher

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2014, 07:08:31 pm »
Thanks Andreas. I had sent you the source code to your email.
Received. I'll try it in the next days, hopefully. Apparently Christian used TVFS, but that should not be a greater problem.

About the license: I didn't know that it was someone of the eco developers, who added the LPGL to the code. Comparing it with Martin's version made that clear.

Dave Yeo

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2014, 02:52:37 am »
I was also unclear that the license was not GPL, which is only allowed to be linked to system libraries.

Andy Willis

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2014, 01:30:45 am »
I was also unclear that the license was not GPL, which is only allowed to be linked to system libraries.

While the eco-runtime was not part of OS/2, it was distributed I believe with at least one version of eCS so it can be argued it is a system library so whether LGPL (which I consider a free as in speech license) or GPL (free as in beer license) it would meet the requirements.  Apache license is good (free speech license).

Andi B.

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2014, 09:47:06 am »
Quote
...I believe with at least one version of eCS so it can be argued it is a system library...
I would say no. I'm pretty sure lot of eCS systems do not have it installed. No system component relies on it. Lot of users do not let ecosoft libs install during system installation. The number of ecosoft libraries and functionality changed a lot between eCS versions. No clue which version and what components were delivered with different eCS versions though.

IMHO if eCS apps want to make use of features from ecosoft libs they should check if available on system and if not work without these functionality. As I did with DataSeeker. It's as easy as a few lines of code. No serious application should depend on them given the great OS/2 - eCS user base who don't have/don't want to have these libs on their system. 

At this point in eCS - OS/2 development we should not invest in any closed source part anymore. If anyone want to work on Animated Mouse Pointer again I would advice take the last sources and rip out dependencies or make an own version based on Christians sources and merge the few fixes made since then.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2014, 03:26:25 pm »

While the eco-runtime was not part of OS/2, it was distributed I believe with at least one version of eCS so it can be argued it is a system library so whether LGPL (which I consider a free as in speech license) or GPL (free as in beer license) it would meet the requirements.  Apache license is good (free speech license).
[/quote]

Hi Andy

I just to not get confuse "eCo Software runtime" it is not open source, not under GPL, not even under LGPL. "eCo Software runtime" is "AS IS" freeware like it says on its page.

I disagreed on you personal opinion calling GPL "Free as in beer". I understand that FSF sometimes gives a too much philosophical meaning to its license, but what the GPL does is force the derivate works to be also open under the same GPL license. Which I think that is positive to projects that needs to grow and snowball, especially software that is "commodity" or base for other things like an operating system. I think that Linux has grown thanks to that license, otherwise (if it will be under Apache) companies will make forks of it under different licenses and even close the source. GPL is not good or bad, it's just a license mode that may fit some needs or not.

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Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2014, 04:54:25 pm »
...ok, I will turn philosophical  ;D

I remember back some years ago, since I was influenced by IBM, I didn't like the GPL license at all. I preferred the Apache license since it allowed the developer to have more freedom on what to do with the derivative work. Also BSD since it allow you to do whatever you want with the derivative work

But on this same forum somebody explain me a good reason to use GPL. A developer may have the dream for his work to be open no matter if it has little or much derivative work on it. A way to guarantee that dream of the developer is to have a license that will force the derivative work to be open too under the same freedom of sharing conditions. That moment is what I understood that some developers don't want money, don't want fame, they only wanted to share their wisdom and hoped that his software will be useful for somebody.

When you check an open source license you don't see only the "freedom" of the developer. GPL is the license that respect the freedom of the user, to not be hi-jacked by a single developer or company, and to not be hi-jacked by a developer that offers the same open source software with improved icons and better marketing.

I prefer any open source license approved by Opensource.org, but I also started to respect GNU GPL some years ago.  Specially on this community when we need development to "add up" and not be divided by companies or individuals that only focus on personal gain.

Regards
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 07:28:18 pm by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
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Andreas Schnellbacher

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2014, 08:55:16 pm »
What remains is that

1) The file wpamptrsrc-20100704.zip apparently doesn't include the entire sources.

2) The OSS license of this package is LPGL and not GPL.

3) It links a closed source lib. for NLS.

4) It looks to me as if both Christian's and eco's methods for NLS can't be used simultaneously.

5) I wonder that Christian hasn't used his Hypertext/2 for IPF file creation, for which I created the version 2.00 as a large update with many fixes. Apparently AMPtrs was released before HText.

Andreas

ivan

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2014, 12:51:14 am »
The reason I raised the question of the license was because of the  whatsnew.txt file Andreas posted which said, in part:

Quote
14/07/2010 Yuri A.Prokushev
- resource dll build fixed
- GPL version

It does say GPL not LGPL  but it appears that is a mute point now.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2014, 03:47:43 pm »
Hi Ivan

You are right about this confusion, inside the "whatsnew.txt" file it says GPL, on the site it says LGPL. On the source code (.c files) of the site it says  "GNU Lesser General Public". So I guess that version was released as LGPL of the original author.

But I prefer as a first step to try to recompile the original source code, release the source code as Apache as it was requested by the author to me and make it public.

At the end we will have two versions of the source code.
1) Once released as LGPL and with dependencies of the closed source eCo Runtime.
2) Other one as Apache with the original source code as the author release it.

Andreas, thanks for your help, please let me know any progress.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Boris

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2014, 08:54:37 pm »
Other one as Apache with the original source code as the author release it.

I do not agree with u fully. I think there's a need to merge the changes made by eCoSoft, except the ones that add requirements of eCoRT.

Anyway it is better to release the code without the changes merged (so, just fix building, and build), than to leave the source code unreleased, because then someone, e. g. me, will be able to merge the changes.
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2014, 09:15:39 pm »
Hi Boris.

The author gave me permission to release it under Apache license.

If there is a way an Apache license can derivate to LGPL, there is a way to merge them together and possible the result will be LGPL. But I need to find out if the Apache license allows that.
I know that you can take something from the Apache license and make it GPL (and not the other way), but I don't know if it works the same with LGPL.

More information, links and suggestion are welcome.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2014, 09:26:41 pm »
Some discussion said it is possible to go from Apache to LGPL.

But I need to comply with the authors will to make a Apache release, after that derivative work can be LGPL, GPL and can even be merged to eCo modified version under LGPL.
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Andreas Schnellbacher

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Re: Animated Mouse Pointer - Need Development Help
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2014, 09:54:53 pm »
BTW: Christian has released his more recent projects under the GPL version 2.

About progress: I found Christian's files.txt, in which he gives hints about the build process. I tried it a first time with VAC 3.08 instead of IBMCPP 2.1 and it fails, of course.  (I have both available.) Also the toolkit version is involved.

Let's see if it's more work to switch compiler and toolkit or to activate the older environment. Additionally, tools need refreshing, as Christian already described.

Andreas