Author Topic: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question  (Read 14974 times)

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2013, 12:37:21 pm »
Although answered numerous times here again what I can say from the top of my head -

3) no, yes
4) no
5) 3 dirs are created at root. AFAIR /usr /etc /var

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Might it be possible to answer this easy question with an easy YES or NO?  - > Thanks in Advance!
No. As you see above I needed a little more for 5)  ;)

I could give here links to the netlabs rpm sites and readmes, but this is would be more than YES or NO too....  :)

Thanks you very much, Andi! I know that I am a bit annoying sometimes  ;)

For 3 your answer is: 3) no, yes

-> that leads me to my initial conclusions:

During install I have two possibilities: install YUM/RPM on bootdrive or on another drive
-> If I want to install it on another Drive this drive has to be already created and formatted before the "real" installation starts, otherwise I will not be able to install ODIN and so on...
-> If the Drive is not present or if I am "Just" a simple user (like me  ::)  ) and I have no deep information about it while installing I will choose the installation drive. In this case I have to have in mind to have more than 2GB at hand, otherwise - as all the executables of future YUM/RPM programs will go into the bootdrive as well - I will soon run out of space.

It is a pitty that I can not use my mother tongue to explain what I want to stress, but this time I will just write a few sentences in German and am sorry for this  8)

-> Ohne entsprechende Hinweise vor oder während der Installation wird Otto Normalverbraucher nicht realisieren können, welch wichtige Entscheidung er zu treffen hat, WO genau YUM/RPM installiert werden soll. Folgt er den Hinweisen von Mensys wonach für die Installation insgesamt 2GB Platz genug wären und ist er sich nicht im klaren, dass bei Installation von YUM/RPM auf dem Bootlaufwerk sein Plattenplatz evtl. zügig zur Neige geht (weil große Teile aller Folgeprogramme ebenfalls dort abgelegt werden), wird er oder sie nicht lange Freude an seiner Installation haben.

Doug Bissett

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2013, 06:20:39 pm »
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If I want to install it on another Drive this drive has to be already created and formatted before the "real" installation starts, otherwise I will not be able to install ODIN and so on...

True, but that is very easy to do. In most cases, on a re-install, the alternate drive will already be set up, and formatted. If it is s new install, and the drive isn't already set up, you can do that when you set up the drive during install. Create all of the volumes, then the install drive is formatted. At that time, there is the option to format the rest of your drives (JFS, HPFS, etc. Not FAT32 or NTFS). Once they are formatted, you are free to use them.

Personally, I take the opportunity to select the alternate drive to contain the %HOME% and %PROGRAMS% directories too. Hopefully, the updated installer will also allow a user to specify the %UNIXROOT% directory at the same time, even if a user chooses not to use RPM/YUM. If that is done, and %UNIXROOT% is placed on an alternate drive, a user should be able to install RPM/YUM some time in the future, without messing up too many things. One of the reasons that I do that, is that I can share those directories between multiple boot drives. I am not sure what implications that would have with RPM/YUM (could be a horror show, if they don't do things properly), but everything else that I have tried works fine.

guzzi

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2013, 06:59:04 pm »
I already have rpm/yum on an alternate drive. When the new eCS comes out and I would install it on a second boot partition with rpm/yum in the same place as it is now I expect there might be problems because files would get overwritten and the database will get messed up. So I intend -not- to install rpm/yum but simply copy and paste the appropriate lines from the old config.sys to the new one.

ivan

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2013, 10:18:24 pm »
I already have rpm/yum on an alternate drive. When the new eCS comes out and I would install it on a second boot partition with rpm/yum in the same place as it is now I expect there might be problems because files would get overwritten and the database will get messed up. So I intend -not- to install rpm/yum but simply copy and paste the appropriate lines from the old config.sys to the new one.
And that appears to be the big problem - multiple OS/2 eCS boot partitions on the same machine using common applications installed on a partition that can be used by all boot versions.

Doug Bissett

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2013, 07:01:44 am »
I already have rpm/yum on an alternate drive. When the new eCS comes out and I would install it on a second boot partition with rpm/yum in the same place as it is now I expect there might be problems because files would get overwritten and the database will get messed up. So I intend -not- to install rpm/yum but simply copy and paste the appropriate lines from the old config.sys to the new one.
And that appears to be the big problem - multiple OS/2 eCS boot partitions on the same machine using common applications installed on a partition that can be used by all boot versions.

It has been NO PROBLEM, for me, but I haven't tried it with RPM/YUM. I share almost everything, on a common drive, between boot partitions. Some of them are (in no particular order):
SAMBA
GENMAC
OpenOffice 3.2
ODIN
JAVA
QT4
Firefox
PMMail
Thunderbird
BackAgain/2000
CDDVDCreator
DVDDAO
DOS BOX
Electronic Teller
Embelish
FotoGet
House/2
Lotus Smartsuite
PMView Pro
Seamonkey
Photo>Graphics Pro
VirtualBox
FocusWriter
GenealogyJ (JAVA)
Scribus
AVxCAT
PM123
SMplayer/Mplayer
Timidity
VLC
APC UPS monitor
BootAble
ClamAV
DFSEE
eCSMT
FM/2
RSync
and  few more that I don't use much.

Basically, most programs can be shared between boot systems, with no trouble. Doing it that way makes it a LOT easier when the time comes to install a new version of eCS. Generally, you do need to re-install the program, over top of the old, using the new boot system. Sometimes, simply creating icons is enough. WarpIN makes it very easy to just run through your collection of installers, to get it done. The best programs store all of there configuration stuff in their own directory, so it can be used by any boot system. Not too far behind, are those that store config stuff in the %HOME% directory (which also needs to be on the common drive), although I find that that gets badly cluttered. The worst programs, are those that insist on storing configuration stuff on the boot drive, especially when they put it in the system INI files. Even that is not a real problem, it just means that you need to be more careful when installing the programs.

I suspect that RPM/YUM will keep all of the configuration stuff in it's own directory structure, but I am not sure how easy it will be to synchronize it between two boot systems.

ivan

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2013, 01:40:36 pm »
Likewise Doug, all my applications are on one partition and where possible the data produced is on yet another.  The boot partition has OS/2 and that is it.

So far with RPM/YUM there has been no definitive answer to how it is designed to work.  So far the answer is 'maybe' it will go on a non boot partition or 'maybe' it has to be on the boot partition.

Must it be on the boot partition or can it be on another and if on another will it allow multiple boot partitions?  That is the question that must be answered!

At the moment there appears to be a move towards emulating windows with everything being placed in the boot partition.  As far as I can see this is a retrograde step and should be resisted. 

If it ends up that it will put everything on the boot partition then we need a simple RPM unpacker that will let us get at what is in the package and put it where we want it.  In other words we will be back to the equivalent of using zip files.

Doug Bissett

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2013, 09:45:59 pm »
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So far with RPM/YUM there has been no definitive answer to how it is designed to work.  So far the answer is 'maybe' it will go on a non boot partition or 'maybe' it has to be on the boot partition.

There is no doubt that RPM/YUM can be on a volume, other than the boot volume. IMO, it should NOT be on a boot volume, but it CAN be. Whether the eCS installer will actually allow it to be put on a volume, other than the boot volume, is yet to be seen (if it doesn't allow it, it won't get installed until AFTER the main install, if I install it at all - which is unlikely, except on my test machine).

The only unknown is whether two boot systems can share the information, successfully. If it is done properly, there should be no problem. If it isn't done properly, it could be somewhat interesting, to say the least.

Andreas Schnellbacher

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2013, 12:07:07 am »

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So far with RPM/YUM there has been no definitive answer to how it is designed to work.  So far the answer is 'maybe' it will go on a non boot partition or 'maybe' it has to be on the boot partition.

There is no doubt that RPM/YUM can be on a volume, other than the boot volume. IMO, it should NOT be on a boot volume, but it CAN be. Whether the eCS installer will actually allow it to be put on a volume, other than the boot volume, is yet to be seen (if it doesn't allow it, it won't get installed until AFTER the main install, if I install it at all - which is unlikely, except on my test machine).

The only unknown is whether two boot systems can share the information, successfully. If it is done properly, there should be no problem. If it isn't done properly, it could be somewhat interesting, to say the least.

That reads like it is already implemented in the installer. Do you have access to the sources? Or are you even the developer responsible for the installer?

Doug, please do the things that you know to do. I would thank you if you turn your mind and let Alex and Joachim speak in that case. An option would be to use citations, marked as such.

Doug Bissett

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2013, 03:23:02 am »
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That reads like it is already implemented in the installer. Do you have access to the sources? Or are you even the developer responsible for the installer?

I have no idea what will be in the eCS installer. No, I don't have access to the sources, and I am not responsible for it.

I DO have RPM/YUM installed on a drive that is not the boot drive, as installed by the existing installer (with no magic), and I see no reason for that to change (but stranger things have happened).

At the moment, I do not have a second boot system on that machine, so I cannot comment on what will happen if I try to share the RPM/YUM installation between two boot systems.

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Doug, please do the things that you know to do. I would thank you if you turn your mind and let Alex and Joachim speak in that case. An option would be to use citations, marked as such.

I think you should actually READ what I post.

Dave Yeo

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2013, 05:28:02 am »

At the moment, I do not have a second boot system on that machine, so I cannot comment on what will happen if I try to share the RPM/YUM installation between two boot systems.


I'm sharing a RPM/YUM install between 2 boot partitions, works fine. In my case I never did let it write to config.sys due to conflicts with my existing %UNIXROOT% volume which has EMX stuff on it. Just use a script to enable it.
All the RPM/YUM stuff is self-contained on the volume that %UNIXROOT% points to except what usually goes in config.sys, PATH, LIBPATH, various Python and probably Perl settings so they can find themselves etc.
I can't imagine the installer insisting on using the boot volume for RPM/YUM and really it needs to be installed to the root of whatever volume it is installed to. Ideally %HOME% should probably be on the same volume as some programs are likely to not understand drive letters.

Alex Taylor

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 07:38:55 pm »
Thanks for all the answers, but I still have no idea about my questions:

1. there is a minimum space of 6GB required for a "full" install of eCS 2.2? +
3. has YUM/RPM to be installed on the boot drive or is it possible to install it on a seperate drive?
(as these depend on each other)

I thought I answered these about two weeks ago on the eCS mailing list.  However, I'll answer again.

1. No.  A default install I think takes a bit less than 1GB, but you will obviously want extra space on whatever drive you keep applications, data, and/or your temporary directory.  That has always been the case, irrespective of RPM/YUM.

3. No, you can install it on any drive as long as it supports long filenames.

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2. will the installer quit if there is less or deselect RPM/YUM applications (JAVA, ODIN, QT I guess)
4. or do one have to have two partitions for the installation (one for OS one for YUM/RPM) allways?
5. If it is necessary to install YUM/RPM on the bootdrive - does it will go in a seperate folder or "mess up" the whole boot drive with the needed folder structure?

2.  No, the installer will not quit.  If you deselect RPM/YUM in Advanced install, then Odin, Flash, Java and Qt4 will also be automatically deselected.

4. No. 

5. It is not necessary, so: no.  Whatever drive you install on, by default three directories will be used: /var, /etc and /usr.  I acknowledge this is somewhat awkward as you already have an %ETC% directory and a /var directory which may end up separate.  However, there is no way for us to change this, given how RPM is designed.  We recommend thinking of it like this: RPM installs a self-contained "sandbox" for Unix-ported applications.  Those applications will use the RPM-managed directories; other applications will use the "regular" directories.

That said: The installer (in Advanced mode) simply asks where you want the RPM root path to be.  It defaults to the root directory of a drive.   However, it is theoretically possible to enter a subdirectory (e.g. "x:\rpm") instead, in which case all the RPM directories will be created under that.  We do not encourage users to do this, as there is no guarantee that all RPM-managed applications will support this kind of setup.  (The ones included with eCS do seem to work this way, though.)


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Sorry, but I am not able to find the answers to that - "simple" - questions.

As far as I understand the whole YUM/RPM is needed to install ODIN and QT - as JAVA and Flash are not ready....

True, but since Java and Flash depend on Odin, they can't be installed via the eCS installer without RPM as well.  (You can perfectly well install them yourself later, of course, if you know how.)

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The most important questions of these are to me:

Does YUM/RPM hast to be installed on the Bootdrive and will it go in a seperat folder?

Might it be possible to answer this easy question with an easy YES or NO?  - > Thanks in Advance!

No; and, it depends.  See above.

Alex Taylor

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 07:48:40 pm »
Thanks for that bit of information Alex.  When you say view them do you mean just getting a list or actually extracting them - in other words do we now have a fully functional 7z?

Yes, you can extract them.  It uses either 7z or rpm2cpio, depending on which one it can find in the PATH, plus cpio.


Likewise Doug, all my applications are on one partition and where possible the data produced is on yet another.  The boot partition has OS/2 and that is it.

This is good policy, IMO.

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Must it be on the boot partition or can it be on another and if on another will it allow multiple boot partitions?  That is the question that must be answered!

It has been answered, repeatedly.  I don't see what the confusion is.  It can go on any partition and is entirely self-contained.

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At the moment there appears to be a move towards emulating windows with everything being placed in the boot partition.  As far as I can see this is a retrograde step and should be resisted. 

Why do you seem to have this impression?  Who has ever said that it has to be on the boot drive?  It does not.

ivan

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 11:07:56 pm »
Thanks again Alex.


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Must it be on the boot partition or can it be on another and if on another will it allow multiple boot partitions?  That is the question that must be answered!

It has been answered, repeatedly.  I don't see what the confusion is.  It can go on any partition and is entirely self-contained.

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At the moment there appears to be a move towards emulating windows with everything being placed in the boot partition.  As far as I can see this is a retrograde step and should be resisted. 

Why do you seem to have this impression?  Who has ever said that it has to be on the boot drive?  It does not.

To answer the first part.  I have seen conflicting statements about where it could go and nothing definitive about it working with different boot partitions. 

Since you have a hand in the installer for eCS then I can now take it that it will work from a common partition for more than one boot drive on the same machine.

The second part is an impression I have received, maybe erroneously, from comments on various news groups and to a lesser extent here, but again I rely on your knowledge of the inner workings to show that is a wrong impression.  I do have one question though, why does an eCS install default to using %bootdrive%/programs and %bootdrive%/home?

Alex Taylor

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2013, 03:07:48 am »
I do have one question though, why does an eCS install default to using %bootdrive%/programs and %bootdrive%/home?

I'm not sure what else it could default to. 

ivan

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Re: eCS 2.2 YUM/RPM question
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2013, 11:34:54 am »
Maybe they, like the RPM/YUM install, could be emphasised in some way rather than being buried in with a lot of other options that most people don't look at.  An install page something like the networking page maybe?