Author Topic: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD  (Read 5600 times)

Boris

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I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« on: June 02, 2014, 08:34:21 am »


LIABILITY DISCLAIMER: this is how I understand and what I know, I may be highly inaccurate, or even completely wrong! There are no claims, promises, or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of my posts. Think on your own!

Martin Iturbide

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 02:57:06 pm »
Hi Boris.

As far as I know,  Alt Richmond Inc is the only owner of the SNAP source code since they bought Scitech.

On its webpage under products it says:

Quote
Alt Richmond offers software solutions focused on multimedia applications (2D/3D graphics, video and audio) and middleware system software for mobile, consumer and embedded devices.

We continue to license the SciTech Software SNAP device drivers and offer software development kits with a modular driver architecture that enable hardware acceleration on 2D Graphics Processing Units (GPUs) in a very short timeframe. These kits include a shell driver that interfaces with OS and applications and a core driver that interfaces to the supported GPUs. This modular combination simplifies the driver implementation process and allows quick support for a variety of new and legacy GPUs.

The only way to see any progress from this project is to make a business proposal to them to make the source code open source. But maybe the money they request will be something that we can not afford. But maybe a good deal can be pulled out taking noticed that the OS/2 source code from SNAP may be old and close to discontinue, while the product on other platform has evolved (?), and since there is no real market value for OS/2. So making the old OS/2 version of SNAP open source under a different name will not give them commercial problems.

I don't think that it will be intelligent making a licensing agreement with Alt Richmond to have the distribution rights of SNAP, what it will be intelligent is making an agreement to open source it. The issue is that it needs to be a serious proposal, not just send over the source code to see what happens.

The rumors was that Mensys has the rights of distributing SNAP and having the source code of the OS/2 version, but never had invested on the efforts to update it (maybe it was too much work). But I never knew the details and Mensys didn't shared much about it.
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Boris

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2014, 08:45:30 pm »
Mensys owns SDD source code, and has even built a customized version for eComStation without serial code validation procedures and that annoying splash screen on startup.

Ah, and that was a joke. I was sure no one reads that form. ::)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 08:48:17 pm by Boris »
LIABILITY DISCLAIMER: this is how I understand and what I know, I may be highly inaccurate, or even completely wrong! There are no claims, promises, or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of my posts. Think on your own!

Andi B.

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2014, 09:29:49 pm »
Quote
...and that annoying splash screen...
AFAIK disabling splash screen was/is an option since ages. And Mensys distributes 3.1.8 which is the latest Scitech version TTBOMK.

Owing the right to work on SNAP source code and release own versions does not mean Mensys is allowed to distribute the source code. Especially to jokers. But I fear they wouldn't gave it to you even if you've asked politely.

Boris

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2014, 10:27:40 pm »
But I fear they wouldn't gave it to you even if you've asked politely.

Of course they wouldn't.
LIABILITY DISCLAIMER: this is how I understand and what I know, I may be highly inaccurate, or even completely wrong! There are no claims, promises, or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of my posts. Think on your own!

OS4User

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2014, 11:06:46 pm »
the source of SDD  is not that necessary  as it may seam
to add new card someone has to have tech docs for this card anyway
some time ago i tried to find such docs  -  they are not open

on the other hand the grad driver is not very complicated  itself
having docs it is  better to write a new  driver (like pano R200)  rather than
add cards to SDD

SDD has multi platform design which is obsolete in our case thus we can make
a driver in simpler way

use SDD source to rebuilt it to be SMP friendly   -  is not very good idea too  -  supported cards very old and  almost nobody use them
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 11:12:35 pm by OS4User »

Dave Yeo

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2014, 05:16:25 am »
Mensys owns SDD source code, and has even built a customized version for eComStation without serial code validation procedures and that annoying splash screen on startup.

Ah, and that was a joke. I was sure no one reads that form. ::)

Mensys only owns a license for the source code and my understanding is that they haven't done anything with it besides asking a developer or 2 to have a look at how hard it would be to fix the SMP issues (mostly easy)

Dave Yeo

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2014, 05:24:36 am »
the source of SDD  is not that necessary  as it may seam
to add new card someone has to have tech docs for this card anyway
some time ago i tried to find such docs  -  they are not open

Depends on the card. I understand the Intel video cards (actually built into MBs generally) are open.

Quote
on the other hand the grad driver is not very complicated  itself
having docs it is  better to write a new  driver (like pano R200)  rather than
add cards to SDD

SDD has multi platform design which is obsolete in our case thus we can make
a driver in simpler way

use SDD source to rebuilt it to be SMP friendly   -  is not very good idea too  -  supported cards very old and  almost nobody use them

I still find that SDD works much better then Panorama here on my older install where SMP is broken anyways. Colours are correct under SDL (perhaps a SDL bug) when using 32bit colour, monitor goes to sleep when the screensaver tells it to, by chance the MTRRs seem correct on both. SDD might still be easier to extend and some newer cards may be compatible with the older cards and just need enabling.

OS4User

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2014, 07:53:04 am »
I still find that SDD works much better then Panorama here on my older install where SMP is broken anyways. Colours are correct under SDL (perhaps a SDL bug) when using 32bit colour, monitor goes to sleep when the screensaver tells it to, by chance the MTRRs seem correct on both. SDD might still be easier to extend and some newer cards may be compatible with the older cards and just need enabling.

of course SDD is much faster than panorama  -  I run SDD + x850  and can tell that this pair is the best choice for os/2 for now

but adding new card to SDD is approximately the same as building new grad driver like panoR200

I tried to make it for my x850 -  unfortunately met  lack of docs

(all above is for 2D only, I have no idea how to use 3D acceleration)

Dave Yeo

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2014, 08:16:25 am »
Forgot to mention that my Intel video is unsupported by Snap so its using the Vesa driver. I'm not knowledgeable to comment on how hard it is adding new cards but I'd guess the framework is there.

OS4User

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2014, 08:35:04 am »
Forgot to mention that my Intel video is unsupported by Snap so its using the Vesa driver. I'm not knowledgeable to comment on how hard it is adding new cards but I'd guess the framework is there.

framework is not that complicated - an example is in DDK
question is how to do BITBLT, LINE and CURSOR primitives using HW  - i have not found any desc for that

panorama in you case should be faster since it uses SB

Andi B.

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2014, 08:39:50 am »
Quote
...but adding new card to SDD is approximately the same as building new grad driver like panoR200...
I do not believe this until someone stands up and add Multi Monitor support to Panorama. I still think if you've SNAP sources it's way easier to fix the SMP issues and add other chips than extend Panorama to Mulit Monitor and acceleration. Remember SNAP falls back to VESA GRADD for unsupported cards. To my understanding this is the same what Panorama always does - unaccelerated VESA mode.

For some systems Panorama is faster than SNAP although both using VESA GRADD. But AFAIK this is only cause SNAP sometimes does not program MTRRs correctly. This may be easy to fix when you have access to SNAP sources as it was fixed for Panorama too.

OS4User

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2014, 08:53:50 am »
I do not believe this until someone stands up and add Multi Monitor support to Panorama. I still think if you've SNAP sources it's way easier to fix the SMP issues and add other chips than extend Panorama to Mulit Monitor and acceleration.

you will need  to add Multi Monitor support for each new card    -  SDD source will give you framework for this adding only

For some systems Panorama is faster than SNAP although both using VESA GRADD. But AFAIK this is only cause SNAP sometimes does not program MTRRs correctly. This may be easy to fix when you have access to SNAP sources as it was fixed for Panorama too.

yes, SMP issue can be fixed  with source  -  but who really need that old card ?

Andi B.

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2014, 12:38:27 pm »
Quote
but who really need that old card ?
Why old card? To my understanding both SNAP and Panorama use VESA GRADD for new cards. No difference with new cards. 

But additionally SNAP supports most of the old cards accelerated. So it's probably way easier to add accelerated support for new cards to SNAP than Panorama.


OS4User

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Re: I've got a reply from Mensys about SNAP source code xD
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2014, 02:30:00 pm »
Why old card? To my understanding both SNAP and Panorama use VESA GRADD for new cards. No difference with new cards. 

There is. Panorama uses SB and thus it is faster than SDD in the VESA mode.


So it's probably way easier to add accelerated support for new cards to SNAP than Panorama.

"to add"  - is easy either to SDD or to Panorama

"what to add" is a complicated  issue.