Author Topic: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation  (Read 26314 times)

Martin Iturbide

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2014, 09:56:50 pm »
Let me post a little summary of the wishlist untill now:

Drivers

    ACPI:
        Activate external screen/projector using function keys (related to (2) above)
        Suspend/resume (for those with laptops)

    Video Drivers:
        Updated SNAP
        SNAP for integrated Intel video with Multihead (3 times 1920x1200 resolution)
        Panorama: Resolution change without reboot support.
        Panorama: Support for the external VGA/HDMI port to connect it without reboot.

    WLAN adapter drivers
        Intel adapters

    Bluetooth

    USB3

    Audio
        Multiple sound streams for UniAud (my pet peeve)

    UEFI and GPT support.

Applications

    VBOX
        new VBOX with clipboard and full network support

    SeaMonkey
        Improve the performance of it.
        Solid Javascript running.

    Apache Open Office
        free all mem when closing and with fixed 'sticky window' ticket
        Free OpenOffice from the Innotek Font Engine, which is crippling it.

    cmd.exe
        More than 8k (more than 80x100 char buffer)

    Editors
        Up to date VisualSlickEdit

    OpenGL

    TCPIP v6 stack

    Video Conference App
        Skype

    Java Update

    PMMail
        Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).

GUI Improvements

    The "quiet" boot.
    The Boot Logo Animation
    GUI - The Navigator
    GUI – The Desktop Structure
    Installed Apps Shortcuts Reorganization
    GUI – Icon Format
    GUI – eCenter Size / Icon Size
    Directory and File Structure
    The User Files Structure
    Improved GUI Themes.
    Save As / Open file dialog box (Open source)
    Copy/Replace File Dialogs updates
    The tray configuration (very simple)
    Updating the Launchpad.
    Revive "the monster" - XWorkplace.


System Limitations

    Solving the shared memory problem

    Fixed FPE (floating point exception (?) which crashes QT and other apps)
        (Libc066 has a fix/workaround for this, apps will need rebuilding)
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Doug Bissett

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2014, 11:00:44 pm »
Quote
Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).

I don't understand this statement. PMMail has done Unicode for ages. If there is a problem with it, please open an incident in the Mantis bug tracker.

Dave Yeo

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2014, 02:05:32 am »
I find SeaMonkey 2.21's performance satisfactory, especially compared to 2.14 and haven't seen the JavaScript script popup for quite sometime.
All the Mozilla apps need HTML5 sound working again though luckily system sounds still work (mail arrival messages and such)

Alex Taylor

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2014, 09:16:00 am »
Quote
Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).

I don't understand this statement. PMMail has done Unicode for ages. If there is a problem with it, please open an incident in the Mantis bug tracker.

It can process Unicode text (I know, since I wrote that code), but it can't display it – it has to convert it to codepage text first.  This is a fundamental limitation of the native PM controls it uses, hence the necessity of writing new controls which don't rely on native GPI text rendering.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2014, 03:17:51 pm »
Something that I think was discussed on the past is:

1) Have some kind of hardware reference list of the "supported devices" to run with eComStation/OS/2 Warp.

Example 1: 

Arca Noae releases a list of the hardware they use and support and that are supported on their product "OS/2 & eCS drivers and software package – personal edition". So they can say that their drivers works with this list of hardware, and if you are using these drivers, the best hardware to get is the one on that list.

That does not means that only the hardware listed there will work, it will mean the best hardware for that drivers are the one on that list since they have access to it and the driver was tested with it. And that is the hardware that "Arca Noae" uses and supports for a period of time. Maybe the list can be updated yearly.

Again, this is just an idea for this case,  "OS/2 & eCS drivers and software package – personal edition".

Example 2:

The other thing that I never got time to finish, and did not succeed, on that was to try to create a community based hardware report for the platform based on the OS2World wiki - http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Hardware

I really wanted to created something "collaborative based" which tries to consolidate all the hardware devices reports for the platform, without worrying about the "ownership" of those compatibility lists (I own this... this is from my site.. don't use my text)..and turn it everything into Creative Commons Share alike.

But sadly:
- Sometime people don't like the wiki to make this long lists.
- I was not able to consolidate the site to make it more attractive and I don't have enough time to pull that project.
- People want an easy form to fill up the hardware reviews and a Wiki is different from that.

....just throwing some ideas to the air.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 03:21:09 pm by Martin Iturbide »
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2014, 08:58:37 pm »
Hi.

Some days ago I sent this wishlist to Arca Noae as part of their "So, what would you like to see next?" post.
I got a reply from Lewis that I will also like to share on the forum.  The unquoted this are Lewis replies.

Quote
> Subject: So, what would you like to see next?
>
> Message Body:
> Dear Arca Noae
>
> I discussed on the OS2World forum a Wishlist for the platform.
>
> http://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?topic=581.msg5496#msg5496
>
> I can summary the wish list on this:
>
Quick responses, and yes, you may quote me on these if you like. My answers are along the lines of what Arca Noae is likely to develop or bring to market:

Quote
> DRIVERS
>
>     ACPI:
>         Activate external screen/projector using function keys (related to (2) above)
>         Suspend/resume (for those with laptops)
>
David is working on improving this code. I would direct you to the Arca Noae roadmap:

https://www.arcanoae.com/roadmap/

and the ACPI wiki:

https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/acpi/

(I see that we currently do not have any mention of ACPI on the roadmap, but it should probably be added.)

Quote
>     Video Drivers:
>         Updated SNAP
>         SNAP for integrated Intel video with Multihead (3 times 1920x1200 resolution)
>         Panorama: Resolution change without reboot support.
>         Panorama: Support for the external VGA/HDMI port to connect it without reboot.
>
We currently do not have licensing for SNAP. The further development of this code is presently out of our hands.

Panorama:

- Resolution change without reboot is a limitation of OS/2, not Panorama. Thus, there is nothing which Panorama can do about this. I do not expect to ever see a change in the underlying OS to support on-the-fly changes in resolution.
- Not sure about the involvement of Panorama insofar as video port hardware is concerned. Unlike SNAP, Panorama is a VESA-only component, talking to the VESA BIOS and not controlling the hardware directly, so I do not believe it has the capability to handle such devices.

Please see the wiki: https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/panorama/

Quote
>     WLAN adapter drivers
>         Intel adapters
>
On the roadmap:

https://www.arcanoae.com/roadmap/

though not yet on the wiki:

https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/multimac/

Quote
>     Bluetooth
>
We are looking into the feasibility of this.

Quote
>     USB3
>
Under investigation:

https://www.arcanoae.com/roadmap/
https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/usb/ (not yet, as this support is not present in the driver)

Quote
>     Audio
>         Multiple sound streams for UniAud (my pet peeve)
>
I will pass this along to David. It is surely a reasonable request.

Quote
>     UEFI and GPT support.
>
GPT is under investigation:

https://www.arcanoae.com/roadmap/

UEFI is a concern, but we haven't yet started talking about how to handle the next generation of systems which will likely be without legacy support (there are some now, but better boards still retain the ability to boot "normally"). We will add this to our roadmap when we have at least a strategy.

Quote
> APPLICATIONS
>
>     VBOX
>         new VBOX with clipboard and full network support
>
No direct plans. I've thrown this idea to the developers we have at hand to see if anyone is interested and willing to get to it. By "full network support," I assume this implies shared folders for OS/2 guests. Clipboard for OS/2 hosts? (Clipboard works under OS/2 guest on Linux - for me, at least.)

Quote
>     SeaMonkey
>         Improve the performance of it.
>         Solid Javascript running.
>
This would naturally grow out of bww's work on Firefox, which is not under our control. You'd have to ask our friends at bww.

Quote
>     Apache Open Office
>         free all mem when closing and with fixed 'sticky window' ticket
>         Free OpenOffice from the Innotek Font Engine, which is crippling it.
>
You'd have to ask our friends at bww.

Quote
>     cmd.exe
>         More than 8k (more than 80x100 char buffer)
>
Likely part of the 4OS2 project. We have no sources for IBM's cmd.exe (which is horribly broken in a number of respects).

Quote
>     Editors
>         Up to date VisualSlickEdit
>
I've asked our development team to look at this.

Quote
>     OpenGL
>
I've asked our development team to look at this.

Quote
>     TCPIP v6 stack
>
I've asked our development team to look at this.
Quote
>     Video Conference App
>         Skype
>
Skype is closed source, AFAIK. However, a good video conferencing app is surely something we'd like to do at some point in time.

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/tox/
https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2012-05-01-microsoft.markdown

Jitsi may be a reasonable alternative:

https://jitsi.org/

Again, we have no current plans. When we do, we will add it to our roadmap.

Quote
>     Java Update
>
You'd have to ask our friends at bww.

Quote
>     PMMail
>         Make PMMail able to directly display Unicode text (a weakness which is rapidly rendering it unusable for modern work).
>
This is an independent project:

http://pmmail.os2voice.org

Quote
> GUI IMPROVEMENTS
> http://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/Comments_and_Suggestions_about_eComStation_User_Experience
>
>     The "quiet" boot.
>     The Boot Logo Animation
>     GUI - The Navigator
>     GUI – The Desktop Structure
>     Installed Apps Shortcuts Reorganization
>     GUI – Icon Format
>     GUI – eCenter Size / Icon Size
>     Directory and File Structure
>     The User Files Structure
>     Improved GUI Themes.
>     Save As / Open file dialog box (Open source)
>     Copy/Replace File Dialogs updates
>     The tray configuration (very simple)
>     Updating the Launchpad.
>     Revive "the monster" - XWorkplace.
>
XWP is currently under development (by the maintainer and others, not by Arca Noae).

All the rest of these either fall under the purview of the operating system publisher (XEU) or might be considered by various other WPS enhancers. We presently have no plans to update any of these components, other than the desktop enhancements offered by eCo Software, which may become available in our store:

https://www.arcanoae.com/shop/

Quote
> SYSTEM LIMITATIONS
>
>     Solving the shared memory problem
>
We can try to work around it, but the OS/2 memory model was simply not designed for the type of code we find ourselves running on the platform these days. Without a rewrite of the kernel, a real solution is not likely. We have no current plans for this.

Quote
>     Fixed FPE (floating point exception (?) which crashes QT and other apps)
>         (Libc066 has a fix/workaround for this, apps will need rebuilding)
>
Some of our developers seem to be doing different things about this, but we currently have no direct project to address it.

Quote
> SERVICES
> Hardware reference list of the "supported devices" to run with eComStation/OS/2 Warp with Arca Noae's Drivers products.
>
This has been requested, and we are working on providing a facility for this. I'll update the roadmap with news.

Quote
> Please remember that this is just a wish list constructed by some of the member of the OS2World forum and I'm sending it to you for your evaluation.
>
And I'm glad you did!

Cheers, my friend.
Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2014, 09:13:08 pm »
Hi

I will like to thank Lewis for taking the time to read and reply about this wish list.

For the moment I only have this comment: 
Quote
XWP is currently under development
Yes and Now. XWP developers (Paul Ratcliffe and Rich Walsh) are doing a great job fixing bugs on XWP, but there is not an active evolution of XWP.  I hope that more features included to XWP or even evolving it to became a full replacement of WPS classes.
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Mike La Martina

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2014, 09:55:11 pm »
As a musician I am chagrined that I must use Windows to run my digital audio workstations.  I see that one of my favories Guitar Pro has a Linux version.  This is probably not a very popular request.  I need native Midi support.  Timidity does not work for me.

Andi B.

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2014, 09:56:20 pm »
Quote
By "full network support," I assume this implies shared folders for OS/2 guests.
No, not for me. I want OS/2 to be the host and run Windoze for the few apps which I need as guest. When times come I've to switch the 'host' OS, probably I will not have much need for a virtualized OS/2 anymore. If OS/2 - eCS does not run natively on my hardware anymore I think it's finally over :-(

What I meant was usable performance for the guest running on OS/2 host speed wise (don't want to wait ten minutes to transfer 100MBs or so which I've to do regularly for backup reasons). Including Multicast packets to connect to my SMA converter which btw. works with the ancient Innotek port of Connectix VirtualPC, and Netbios which does show all files/folders not only part of them offered by host (works with VPC too). And with correct timing for the guest (I guess that's the problem) for the Card TAN generator used by my banking software inside guest Win (works with VPC too but not with VBOX).

Quote
Clipboard for OS/2 hosts?
Yes. F.i. it's way easier to copy/past IBAN from email (Seamonkey running on eCS) to the banking software running inside VBOX than doing this manually. Btw. VPC does still work but does have other drawbacks compared to VBOX.

ivan

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2014, 11:42:24 pm »
Like Andy B, we, and our clients, are only interested in OS/2 being the host system for other virtualized OSs. 

It would be very nice to get an updated Vbox that would have the additions to allow us to test, for example, win 7.  At the moment win 7 runs but there is no way to get the additions to work with it which is a PITA.

Daniel

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2014, 12:04:26 am »
A second vote for MIDI. This means that a modern hardware device is supported, so that I can record from my wind controller and play to my JV-2080 or whatever...  It would be nice to be able to do some editing too. My needs are simple.

Drivers for my laptop to access the outside world without having to use a memory stick or a card. Specifically:
Atheros AR 9285 WIFI and AR 8131 Ethernet.

Of course I would like other things, but my desires are much the same as everyone else and have been mentioned before.

Good luck to the developers and companies. I've been there.

Mentore

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2014, 09:09:59 am »
A second vote for MIDI. This means that a modern hardware device is supported, so that I can record from my wind controller and play to my JV-2080 or whatever...  It would be nice to be able to do some editing too. My needs are simple.

Drivers for my laptop to access the outside world without having to use a memory stick or a card. Specifically:
Atheros AR 9285 WIFI and AR 8131 Ethernet.

Of course I would like other things, but my desires are much the same as everyone else and have been mentioned before.

Good luck to the developers and companies. I've been there.

A third vote for MIDI. OS/2 is (was? I think it still IS) far superior to Windows when it comes to timers and time resolution is the key factor in MIDI handling.

We have/had a great MIDI sequencing software (MIDI Station Sequencer) and some interesting experiments in score editors (like my ABC and Mup ports). So it's a start.

R.M. Klippstein

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2014, 06:11:43 pm »
ivan & Andi B. -- Same here, My clients  (as well as myself) are only interested in running OS/2 as host and VBox running clients Windoz and Linux. I've been working for quite some time compiling newer versions with some success, but progress is is VERY slow, help for this project is virtually non-existant. I'd be interested in hearing any comments you might have in you're use of vbox.

klipp
rklipp at megared dot net dot mx 

Andy Willis

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2014, 07:34:38 pm »
ivan & Andi B. -- Same here, My clients  (as well as myself) are only interested in running OS/2 as host and VBox running clients Windoz and Linux. I've been working for quite some time compiling newer versions with some success, but progress is is VERY slow, help for this project is virtually non-existant. I'd be interested in hearing any comments you might have in you're use of vbox.

klipp
rklipp at megared dot net dot mx
Myself, I would like to have OS/2 host with sound and USB support for the client.

Olafur Gunnlaugsson

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Re: BrainStorm: Wish list for OS/2 and eComStation
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2014, 06:33:12 am »
A third vote for MIDI. OS/2 is (was? I think it still IS) far superior to Windows when it comes to timers and time resolution is the key factor in MIDI handling.

We have/had a great MIDI sequencing software (MIDI Station Sequencer) and some interesting experiments in score editors (like my ABC and Mup ports). So it's a start.

I know someone who is working on this, but preliminary work only in his spare time, I did some work on this around 2000, the issues then were:

RTMIDI was/is hopeless, Timur Tabi had done a partial MIDI implementation and then stopped work on it, he promised to supply source code but that never happened so the 2 or 3 major projects that actually used RTMIDI had to stop development including MIDI Station and AudioStation, the code as it was did not even support MIDI sysex passing, it was so basic. It was also in retrospect probably the wrong way around in the way it was implemented, instead of implementing MIDI functions it should have passed them through and concentrated on controlling the basics of the protocol and act as a timing reference, much simpler.

It would make a lot more sense to start again with something that emulates the MIDI part of VST3 (not the VST3 specification but the control section only, it is a bit like MIDI++), and then have MIDI as a subsystem of that, no need to implement the specifics, let the application or plugin handle that.

The basic Multimedia audio subsystem is ancient, it has seen no work on it since OS/2 2.0, it needs to be looked at, unusually since it was one of the few things that had been written from scratch by IBM so Serenity Systems said they could actually get the source for that as well, but that never happened either. While it functions perfectly well as it is, or reasonably well depending on what axis you look at it, the issue is if you want to support something that did not exist at the time of its original like DSD (HQ 1bit audio), multichannel audio processing (for music making or home cinema) or very low latency audio (not needed for MM but for music making), you might as well start from scratch.

The other reason that you might want to rewrite the audio subsystem is that modern microprocessors have SMID and other DSP functions that did not exist at all when the original  MM subsystem was developed, a simple module or plug-in architecture that would allow audio processing to take advantage of this without going through the complexities of what we have with current windows and Linux solutions that are all over-ambitious

All in all the audio portion is actually not that big a project, not compared to other parts of the system, but it needs someone that knowns what he is doing, or is willing to learn.