Author Topic: Windows 10 and privacy  (Read 6941 times)

Eirik Romstad

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 19
  • -Receive: 3
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
    • Eirik's homepage
Windows 10 and privacy
« on: July 28, 2015, 06:36:55 pm »
There are growing concerns about privacy protection due to new software.  A recent piece in the Financial Times provides some interesting comments: see http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0d4a3880-3470-11e5-bdbb-35e55cbae175.html for details.  It is particularly the commentary field that contain many interesting view points.

So, where is the opportunity for eCS (OS/2) in this context?
  • Some Win users have not even updated to Win7 or Win8 as they value their privacy.  Many of these users are probably still using older hardware which would make eCS (OS/2) a viable option for these users
  • Some users are looking at Linux as an elternative to Win, but then they face many of the same difficulties as we do + they get (pending the Linux they choose) user interfaces that are quite unfamiliar to them

I have previously argued we need to attract more ordinary users (like me) to make eCS (OS/2) be more than an interesting option for the select few.  Privacy concerns related to Win10 may provide us with some interesting (and unexpected) opportunities.



Boris

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 11
  • -Receive: 16
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 08:23:47 pm »
I'm absolutely convinced this is a very rare case when OS/2 can fit the requirements of an ordinary user.

Either we are super-duper-lucky, or a user uses OS/2 just for the sake of it, like I do.

When talking about ordinary users, GNU/Linux nowadays does not even remotely convey that inconvenience as OS/2 does: unlike OS/2, each and every PC use case of an everyday user is absolutely possible and common with GNU/Linux. And even considering professional use cases, it already is mostly the subject of, yes, comfort level, productivity, convenience and habits, but not general impossibility. Regarding the user interface differences, the transition between an old Windows UI and Windows 10 and higher is merely of the same impediment level as of that is of to any GNU/Linux window manager (some of them will resemble the classical Windows interface in many ways, and some of them, like Unity, will go the Mac OS way, and pretty well).

Hence my point of view is that although I would absolutely agree with the immediate necessity of calling new users into the world of OS/2, I reject the "ordinary" part: it is just a no-go. Without user's itself desire to use this very operating system, it ain't no gonna work.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 08:28:23 pm by Boris »
LIABILITY DISCLAIMER: this is how I understand and what I know, I may be highly inaccurate, or even completely wrong! There are no claims, promises, or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of my posts. Think on your own!

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 246
  • -Receive: 46
  • Posts: 1648
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2015, 07:37:56 pm »
Hi

It is an interesting topic to read about since today's OSes are getting more dependency on the cloud.

I was reading this article about it: Windows 10: Here are the privacy issues you should know about

Regards

Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Andy Willis

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 9
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2015, 12:08:28 am »
When talking about ordinary users, GNU/Linux nowadays does not even remotely convey that inconvenience as OS/2 does: unlike OS/2, each and every PC use case of an everyday user is absolutely possible and common with GNU/Linux.
Possible yes, but older hardware is not supported by newer Linux distros as well as OS/2 supports it.  When I say older, think of a T400 thinkpad laptop.  I have one with an ATI video that is not supported via the ATI drivers but runs with VESA on Linux from even a couple of years ago as they dropped the "old" video support (Fedora, Ubuntu anyhow).  Panorama is much faster on it than Linux runs.  Yes, you could run a Linux distro from that time but it is less supported than OS/2 at this point and doesn't allow for newer application installs via the package manager.

Boris

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 11
  • -Receive: 16
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2015, 12:29:16 am »
When talking about ordinary users, GNU/Linux nowadays does not even remotely convey that inconvenience as OS/2 does: unlike OS/2, each and every PC use case of an everyday user is absolutely possible and common with GNU/Linux.
Possible yes, but older hardware is not supported by newer Linux distros as well as OS/2 supports it.  When I say older, think of a T400 thinkpad laptop.  I have one with an ATI video that is not supported via the ATI drivers but runs with VESA on Linux from even a couple of years ago as they dropped the "old" video support (Fedora, Ubuntu anyhow).  Panorama is much faster on it than Linux runs.  Yes, you could run a Linux distro from that time but it is less supported than OS/2 at this point and doesn't allow for newer application installs via the package manager.

Agreed. You've made a point. OS/2 may be a justified choice for old hardware. I wouldn't call T400 "old" though. :)
But now I would really argue old hardware is not compatible with modern everyday users.

My not really very old A31 (now you can estimate what's "old" for me, lol) had been running OS/2 relatively well, but wireless troubles with more than a half of hotspots, one half probability of being stuck at video reinitialization after a resume, bad support of Ultrabay and no support of Dock II are the most vivid and really non-arguable issues (i.e. we're not talking about software absence, etc) with it. I've really tried. My conclusion: no way if you want to make use of all of the coolest hardware features of Thinkpad laptopts (otherwise why Thinkpad then?).

This, in a much lesser essence, but still, does apply to GNU/Linux. It is just too frustrating to have capable hardware you can't use.

LIABILITY DISCLAIMER: this is how I understand and what I know, I may be highly inaccurate, or even completely wrong! There are no claims, promises, or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of my posts. Think on your own!

Dave Yeo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 7
  • -Receive: 87
  • Posts: 1098
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 02:39:04 am »
On the other hand, my T42 runs OS/2 very well but won't even boot Linux as most distros have dropped support for the Pentium M (could compile a kernel I guess). While not the fastest, it runs SeaMonkey at a reasonable speed, attachs to most hot spots and fails the same way on XP on the few places such as the local library where it doesn't connect. Sleeps well and I understand would hibernate if installed on C:  I also have a newer Toshiba Satellite with decent ATI video, it crawls under Linux as support has been dropped for the video. Never tried OS/2 on it as I'm pretty sure the wireless would not be supported.

Boris

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 11
  • -Receive: 16
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2015, 03:34:52 pm »
would hibernate if installed on C:

Only if the system volume is formatted in FAT, and if running some older kernels.
LIABILITY DISCLAIMER: this is how I understand and what I know, I may be highly inaccurate, or even completely wrong! There are no claims, promises, or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of my posts. Think on your own!

Andi B.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 12
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2015, 11:34:57 am »
Quote
and if running some older kernels
T42p hibernates successfully with 14.104 kernel. Not tried latest 106er. But it takes about 1'25'' to wake up with 1.5GB RAM.

Boris

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 11
  • -Receive: 16
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 12:05:27 pm »
Quote
and if running some older kernels
T42p hibernates successfully with 14.104 kernel. Not tried latest 106er. But it takes about 1'25'' to wake up with 1.5GB RAM.

Interesting. What system version do you run?
LIABILITY DISCLAIMER: this is how I understand and what I know, I may be highly inaccurate, or even completely wrong! There are no claims, promises, or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of my posts. Think on your own!

Andi B.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 12
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 01:28:11 pm »
Quote
and if running some older kernels
T42p hibernates successfully with 14.104 kernel. Not tried latest 106er. But it takes about 1'25'' to wake up with 1.5GB RAM.

Interesting. What system version do you run?
Some eCS with most updates available. Base was eCS1.2DE or 2.1DE but don't know anymore. How to find out?

Joop

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 30
  • Posts: 405
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 04:31:07 pm »
Some eCS with most updates available. Base was eCS1.2DE or 2.1DE but don't know anymore. How to find out?
I'm not sure if there is a better way (see all the other comments that I'm wrong(?) etc).
Go to the "\ecs\install" directory. With a bit of luck you find a file "previous.gps" with possible contents;
"GPSCRIPT
Data = PHASEDATA, 2;
Data = PREVPHASEDATA, 83, 72, 72, "eCS 1.2", 0, 149, 8, 0;"

May be there are other files, didn't have searched for it, but this one can be read. On my system it has the install date of eCS 1.2Dutch which is 3 August 2005. So tomorrow I can celebrate the 10 years ;-).

Boris

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 11
  • -Receive: 16
  • Posts: 310
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2015, 05:00:01 pm »
Hm I thought you cannot anymore install eCS on FAT, can you?

Anyway, that is off-topic.
LIABILITY DISCLAIMER: this is how I understand and what I know, I may be highly inaccurate, or even completely wrong! There are no claims, promises, or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the contents of my posts. Think on your own!

Andi B.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 12
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2015, 07:51:57 pm »
Hm I thought you cannot anymore install eCS on FAT, can you?

Anyway, that is off-topic.
I never installed any OS/2 on FAT. Ever used HPFS and since years JFS for boot volume. But my first primary partition on the first hard disk usually holds a DOS system which is on FAT.

String in PREVPHASEDATA is "eCS" only. In \os2\install\syslevel.ecs there is 1.2. But on newer installs there is no 2.1. So no clue how to find the correct version. But it is heavily updated anyway since installation.

Andi B.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 12
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2015, 09:57:57 pm »
Hm I thought you cannot anymore install eCS on FAT, can you?

Anyway, that is off-topic.
I never installed any OS/2 on FAT. Ever used HPFS and since years JFS for boot volume. But my first primary partition on the first hard disk usually holds a DOS system which is on FAT.

String in PREVPHASEDATA is "eCS" only. In \os2\install\syslevel.ecs there is 1.2. But on newer installs there is no 2.1. So no clue how to find the correct version. But it is heavily updated anyway since installation.

Roderick Klein

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 7
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and privacy
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2015, 11:54:49 pm »
Hm I thought you cannot anymore install eCS on FAT, can you?

Anyway, that is off-topic.

You can't. From what I can remember FAT installation in eCS has never been possible in eCS.
Anybody welcome to correct me.

Apart from that you have no long file name support. So some programs will not work.
Just one quick example I could find in Firefox: plugin-container.exe.
Now maybe you can rename it to 8.3 file names. But you are bound to run into some software maybe needing file names longer then 8.3.

Apart the above pretty limiting factor. I also think that in terms of reliability FAT would be the wurst off in terms of when you get a crash... Then again not that weird as the FAT is the oldest file system. around...
With HPFS, JFS and FAT I have had system crashes. But FAT certainly gave the most damage. Its true HPFS and JFS can also blow up and CHKDSK can then "repair" your partition. But by far most blown up OS/2 installation for me happened on FAT volumes.

Lastly the performance drain you would have with FAT. While I know some people still using HPFS.
JFS also has the large file system  cache... A few months ago I did see Firefox load from a HPFS partition...
It works but its certainly putting your computer back in first gear, instead of making it work snappy.

Roderick