OS2 World Community Forum

OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical => Hardware => Topic started by: CNCMAN on September 21, 2016, 02:29:04 pm

Title: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: CNCMAN on September 21, 2016, 02:29:04 pm
We have an old CNC machine at my place of employment.  It was retroffited with a controller back in the 90's.  The operationg system on the machine is OS/2 warp.  Well just recently, the CMOS battery failed and now I cant save the Date and time.  A new battery has been installed and still the same issue.  So at this point, I believe the MB is bad.  My question is,  can I find a replacement motherboard or cross reference one?  I've attached a couple photos with the Motherboard part numbers and the error im getting at boot!
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard
Post by: Rick C. Hodgin on September 21, 2016, 03:08:08 pm
We have an old CNC machine at my place of employment.  It was retroffited with a controller back in the 90's.  The operationg system on the machine is OS/2 warp.  Well just recently, the CMOS battery failed and now I cant save the Date and time.  A new battery has been installed and still the same issue.  So at this point, I believe the MB is bad.  My question is,  can I find a replacement motherboard or cross reference one?  I've attached a couple photos with the Motherboard part numbers and the error im getting at boot!

That's awesome! :-)

If you replace the CMOS battery it should work.  Make sure you've replaced it correctly by testing voltages at various points downstream from where you soldered it back up.

If the software running on the machine is using a standard communication output like serial or parallel to drive the CNC device, then you should be able to get it to work with any piece of hardware that OS/2 supports so long as the hardware ports are mapped the same.  I would try to mate up the motherboard MHz as close as possible, as well as memory and graphics card.

If, however, it is running a dedicated type of motherboard with explicit input/output ports, you'll have to find the exact duplicate machine.  I think it's unlikely it will have dedicated input/output ports.  You may also be able to find from your CNC machine online what kind of software and/or codes it uses to operate.  They may have updated drivers that will run on newer equipment, even from another OS or would allow you to run OS/2 Warp in a VM in a more modern OS.

Pretty awesome.  In 1996 I developed the software for a part positioner system for an electron-beam welding device.  It was used to weld jet engine intake and exhaust manifolds halves together, as the top/bottom were machined separately.  I used a regular DOS-based system for that controller, coupled to an interface card which received commands and values from my program.  I basically gave it data on where I wanted it to go, and it reported back in real-time where it was.  I then adjusted my target (multi-axis velocities) based on how it was tracking.  I had planned one more stage before the project was pulled, and that was to map the known quirks of the device and create a compensatory system which took those quirks into account so that I would not be quite as reactionary to the real-time feedback for adjusting my position, but instead would already know where it lags behind or leaps ahead, and then have those already factored in as by data from the mapping analysis.  Would've been awesome.

If you can find out the language for the CNC, and it's simple enough, you might be able to write a new controller for it.  Would be a fun project (unless it's in a production environment, then it needs fixed now I assume). :-)

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard
Post by: CNCMAN on September 21, 2016, 03:23:58 pm
I believe i just need the system to boot up so OS/2 takes over.  At that point, the CNC software will take over.  Once the CNC software/hardware takes control, which is a separate board inside the panel, i can load up the executive and ladder.   I was suggested this board http://os2notes.net/os2/os2budget/ by another member of this group. 

Thank You for your reply!!
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard
Post by: ivan on September 21, 2016, 04:50:49 pm
Hi Bill,

It is good to see that another company is using OS/2 to control CNC equipment, we have two companies we support that do that as well, we also upgraded most of their computer systems 18 months ago.

It should not be a problem replacing the motherboard but there are a few of things you MUST consider.
1) what ports are used to connect to the interface board (the replacement MB must have those as dedicated ports)
2) if you intend using the original hard disk the replacement MB must have that interface (usually IDE and a lot of newer boards only have SATA)
3) you need to look for a MB that has standard old style bios (the MS imposed UEFI bios tends to be incompatible with OS/2)
4) with a new MB you will need to change some drivers that are loaded in OS/2 to take account of the newer hardware.

Now a few questions.
1) do you have a full backup of the software needed to operate and control the CNC system?
2) do you have a full backup of the OS/2 system or the original OS/2 warp install CD and floppies?
3) what happens if you press F1 and set the time and date, does it loop or continue booting?

A few observations.
Your picture of the MB shows the CMOS battery missing but I do note that the battery holder is one of those that are rather finicky about battery placement.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard
Post by: CNCMAN on September 21, 2016, 06:58:06 pm
We have backups of everything.

When I hit F1 and go into the setup and set the time and date, then hit F10 to save.  I't will just loop back to the screen i pictured before.

There is one little board that attaches to the MB

I've attached a few pictures.  The MB is all the way in the back.  I added some other pictures of the machine and controller just in case you would like to see the dinosaur im working with!! >:(

There has been numerous attempts at replacing the battery.  Made sure I had good connection and test with meter.

UPDATE:  Not sure why the pictures rotated!  My apologizes!!
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard
Post by: CNCMAN on September 21, 2016, 07:03:27 pm
We have backups of everything.

When I hit F1 and go into the setup and set the time and date, then hit F10 to save.  I't will just loop back to the screen i pictured before.

There is one little board that attaches to the MB

I've attached a few pictures.  The MB is all the way in the back.  I added some other pictures of the machine and controller just in case you would like to see the dinosaur im working with!! >:(

There has been numerous attempts at replacing the battery.  Made sure I had good connection and test with meter.

UPDATE:  Not sure why the pictures rotated!  My apologizes!!
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard
Post by: ivan on September 21, 2016, 10:45:03 pm
1131 and 1132 take me back about 15 years when I did the site survey for updating the plant except I think your computer equipment might be a few years younger than what we started with.

Now a few more questions.
1) the daughter board shown in 1126(2), is that a coprocessor board or an interface board? 
2) what slots do you need?  ISA, PCI.
3) you show two 9 pin serial connectors attached to the board, is that a fixed requirement?
4) are there any other special requirement for plugs, sockets, power supplies? (I add the power supply because any new board will need an ATX power supply which will mean fitting a push button on/off for the electronic switch in the PSU rather than the physical switch of the old PSU).

If you think it would be better you can contact me by e-mail ivanjt at free dot fr  I will also be talking to my service department tomorrow afternoon (I'm doing the night shift tonight because I never ask my people to do what I won't.

 
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 21, 2016, 11:23:31 pm
Hi Bill, welcome.

I have zero experience with CNC machinery. But according to the diagnostic I can not be sure if it the mainboard what is blocking OS/2 to load.  When the BIOS passes and OS/2 loads, it is usual to see the OS/2 little square on the upper-left corner, but on this case it does not gets there.  The HDD seems to be recognized, but it does not make any efforts to load the OS on the HDD.

It is good to see that you already have backups of everything, that is the first step.

According to the picture it has a diskette drive. Do you still have some floppy diskettes available? Maybe you can generate the three basic OS/2 boot diskettes to see if it will boot on that machine, and do some basic check (with the command line) of the HDD to see if you can see the files. With that you will validate that OS/2 boots on that mainboard (so the MB is ok) and you can also validate if the OS/2 file are still accessible on the HDD.

Regards
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 21, 2016, 11:30:16 pm
Another idea.

I'm guessing if you press "<Esc> - To boot" it takes you to the same screen, or it takes you to a black screen? Can you check on the BIOS if there are options to set the boot device order? It may be basic, but it is good to check that the BIOS has the HDD as a booting drive.

Regards
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: ivan on September 21, 2016, 11:36:29 pm
Martin, his problem is that the bios asks for the time and date to be set.  When he does that and uses the save and reboot it loops back to asking for the time and date to be set.

He does not get to the position where the bios hands off to the hard disk boot sector.

To all intents and purposes that MB is dead.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: CNCMAN on September 22, 2016, 06:52:39 pm
Hi Bill, welcome.

I have zero experience with CNC machinery. But according to the diagnostic I can not be sure if it the mainboard what is blocking OS/2 to load.  When the BIOS passes and OS/2 loads, it is usual to see the OS/2 little square on the upper-left corner, but on this case it does not gets there.  The HDD seems to be recognized, but it does not make any efforts to load the OS on the HDD.

It is good to see that you already have backups of everything, that is the first step.

According to the picture it has a diskette drive. Do you still have some floppy diskettes available? Maybe you can generate the three basic OS/2 boot diskettes to see if it will boot on that machine, and do some basic check (with the command line) of the HDD to see if you can see the files. With that you will validate that OS/2 boots on that mainboard (so the MB is ok) and you can also validate if the OS/2 file are still accessible on the HDD.

Regards

When I tried to load the OS/2 Diskettes the IBM blue screen came up asking for the Diskette 1.  I put in disk one and hit enter then it starts to load for a few then the screen goes black and i get "OS/2 is unable to operate your hard disk or diskette drive.  The system is stopped.   Correct the preceding error and restart the system."
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: ivan on September 22, 2016, 08:55:53 pm
Bill, if you are using the original floppies you may need to update them.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: CNCMAN on September 22, 2016, 08:59:34 pm
We have about 3 different sets of OS/2 Warp-  2 of the sets are floppy and 1 set is CD.  I installed a CD/ROM to install OS/2 after the last HDD took a crap.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: Martin Iturbide on September 22, 2016, 11:00:04 pm
Hi Bill.

Did you changed the mainboard? or did the diskettes booted using the with the same mainboard?

It is important to know which version of OS/2 Warp are you using. Maybe you can take a picture of the diskette, CD, box to know if you are using Warp 3, Warp 4 or Warp 4.5x.

Like Ivan says, it is important to update the installation diskettes if you are getting the  "OS/2 is unable to operate your hard disk..." error. But I think it is important to know which version are you using.

Regards
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: CNCMAN on September 23, 2016, 02:08:00 pm
Hi Bill.

Did you changed the mainboard? or did the diskettes booted using the with the same mainboard?

It is important to know which version of OS/2 Warp are you using. Maybe you can take a picture of the diskette, CD, box to know if you are using Warp 3, Warp 4 or Warp 4.5x.

Like Ivan says, it is important to update the installation diskettes if you are getting the  "OS/2 is unable to operate your hard disk..." error. But I think it is important to know which version are you using.

Regards

Sorry for not clarifying.  No boards have been changed.  Thought i would just try and boot from the OS/2 Warp Version 3 installation disks. 
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: Doug Bissett on September 23, 2016, 05:26:05 pm
Just a WAG, but older versions of OS/2 (before the last couple of updates to warp 3, as I recall) require a BIOS setting to be set ON. It is something about using OS/2, if it exists.. Newer versions of OS/2 need that setting to be OFF. If the setting is not there, don't worry about it.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: Olafur Gunnlaugsson on September 23, 2016, 06:20:10 pm
Just a WAG, but older versions of OS/2 (before the last couple of updates to warp 3, as I recall) require a BIOS setting to be set ON. It is something about using OS/2, if it exists.. Newer versions of OS/2 need that setting to be OFF. If the setting is not there, don't worry about it.

The OS/2 setting in BIOS is for OS/2 16 bit only, e.g. it should OFF for anything but OS/2 1.x.
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard
Post by: Ian Manners on September 23, 2016, 06:25:42 pm
Hm, that PC board looks like an old IBM ValuePoint motherboard with a 486DX66, 75, or DX4-100
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: Ian Manners on September 23, 2016, 06:38:59 pm
That looks like an old IBM Valuepoint 486 motherboard. The extra power connector is for the PCI daughter board.
Takes a standard 3v lithium button battery. It's not unusual to buy some to then find out they are flat to start with.
If you manage to get past the date/time problem you might need to go into CMOS and try different harddisk settings.

It would also be an idea to use a brush (while the unit is earthed but off) to clean a lot of that black stuff off the SIMM's and motherboard. A blower (not industrial!) would be good  to remove the lose black stuff after its had a brushing (3-4cm wide paint brush).
Also reseat the SIMM's and CPU if you haven't.

edited for grammer
Title: Re: OS/2 Warp Motherboard - CNC machine
Post by: Ian Manners on September 23, 2016, 07:26:45 pm
One other thing now I look at a downloaded copy of the motherboard photo.

It looks like some liquid ingress on the side where those dip switches are.
Write down the current dipswitch positions, then flip them a few times to help clean the contacts.
You could also try spraying some deoxit into the switchs before toggling them a few times then
give it some time for the deoxit residue to dry and see what happens.

Depends on how much time you want to spend in it..
I have fixed strange problems with old boards by giving them a good rinse and clean, then allow a couple of days for the MB to dry in warm weather. Also measure the power supply outputs, even try using a replacement supply with AT power connectors to see if that boots. Always use a soft brush to clean boards, preferably at a static safe workbench.
Hint, when you think the board is dry, use an air blower to check that no water comes out from under the surface mount chips.