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Messages - guzzi

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Article Discussions / Re: Sponsorship needed for new OS/2 web browser
« on: November 18, 2017, 09:55:37 pm »
Some considerations about this sponsorship drive:

It is indeed not clear which browser will be ported and not even when. I am not happy about that myself. I still gave my consent as a VOICE board member, for a number of reasons.
It has become increasingly clear that porting Firefox is too resource intensive, for reasons already stated in this thread, o.a. the rapid major code changes. Choosing an alternative takes time. Porting the alternative takes more time. Getting the necessary funds together also takes time. By raising money now we save time later.
Software development does not come for free, at least not when there are few developers and therefore full time development by the sparse developers is needed.
Although there is no alternative browser chosen yet, the developers have been chosen, namely BWW, because they have proven to deliver.

Others may think differently. Everyone is free to choose if they will contribute or not.

As for the comments in this thread about buggy software, lack of tools etc., when I take into account the number of bugreports in the firefox bug tracker by the main complainants I get the strong impression that complaining or even trolling is more important to some than actually helping getting bugs fixed.

Web applications / Re: Oddities with Youtube.
« on: November 18, 2017, 09:16:00 pm »

Sure. At least one of the results of the theory of this concept is that several people in our niche market still seem to be using SM 2.35 or FF 38, and have stopped trying to use Mozilla's latest available product for their OS. Scores update: animated dancing bears +1, users -1.

I have an old machine that not even Mosaic will install on. I wholly agree with you that all new software should be fully backwards compatible with older hardware. Any suggestions for a browser that will still run on this thing?

Web applications / Re: Oddities with Youtube.
« on: November 02, 2017, 09:52:48 pm »
Latest version needs ff48

Mail-News / Re: PMMail 3.22 and SMTP authentication...can it do that?
« on: October 13, 2017, 11:37:04 pm »
Remember, without VOICE there would likely not have been a fairly current Firefox, Java, QT4 etc.

I would like to add that without the efforts and sponsoring of the community there would exist nothing of OS/2 at all,  even no Voice.
Yes, indeed. In the end it the community is what keeps OS/2 alive.

Mail-News / Re: PMMail: 2.00.xx to 3.22 migration...what to do?
« on: October 13, 2017, 09:09:04 pm »
Error 16 - Label not found


A SIGNAL instruction has been executed or an event for which a trap was set with SIGNAL ON has occurred, and the language processor could not find the label specified. You might have mistyped the label or forgotten to include it.

The associated subcodes are:


    Label "label_name" not found

Doesn't mean much to me.  The fact that the file is 0 bytes might be because you don't have any groups defined? Wouldn't effect a copy operation anyway. Something triggers an error condition in the rexx script. A bug report is a good idea, and drop it in the mailinglist too.

Mail-News / Re: PMMail 3.22 and SMTP authentication...can it do that?
« on: October 13, 2017, 07:52:50 pm »
PMMail is an incentive to sponsor VOICE

</silence>No matter which stories, excuses and arguments people and VOICE are trying to use to justify a weird construction, this type of tying is illegal according to their Dutch competition laws (Mededingingswet). Buy VOICE's product once, and VOICE has the freedom to use its turnover to sponsor itself. It would be as simple as that, without offending potential users by making them support any irrelevant organization with illegal sales constructions.

And, of course, it's bogus that a Dutch foundation has no members (leden). If you are a member of a community which was forced to support VOICE, then - in Dutch - you are a member of VOICE. You'll never be invited for a member's meeting, but e.g. VOICE can say that you are a member of VOICE. Strictly: a member of a group. If you have a commercial AN Software Subscription, then in Dutch you're a member of AN.

In a nutshell: just sell the product as a stand-alone product, perhaps allow others to become a reseller too, and use the proceeds to sponsor the owner of the product. That's legal, normal, not as weird as having to support VOICE directly, and quite easy...<silence>

Falsely accusing a legal entity of illegal activities constitutes slander. Your comments here are crossing the line of common decency.

Mail-News / Re: PMMail 3.22 and SMTP authentication...can it do that?
« on: October 13, 2017, 02:52:23 am »
I really don't understand the issue. If one wants to obtain PMMail, sponsor 50 dollars to VOICE. Regard it as buying, and the 50 as the price. Simple as that. You do not become a member, because a Dutch 'stichting' does not have members, you don't have any obligations. Your money will be well spent, it will all flow back into software development, Warpstock and promotional activities (the latter usually don't cost any money). As Roderick and I said, there is -no- overhead, all received funds go the goals set in the VOICE statutes. Not 50%, not 70%, not 99%, the full 100%. You may not agree with which software VOICE sponsors, but hey, if you buy a program from a software vendor your money will only benefit this vendor, not the community as a whole. PMMail is an incentive to sponsor VOICE, by sponsoring VOICE one sponsors the viability of the platform. Remember, without VOICE there would likely not have been a fairly current Firefox, Java, QT4 etc.

Mail-News / Re: PMMail 3.22 and SMTP authentication...can it do that?
« on: October 12, 2017, 10:22:36 pm »
</silence>Of course the whole VOICE-construction is illegal, even in the country of the foundation. Often old upgrade rights and a changed owner aren't that relevant, because it's easy to introduce a new main version or a new product name.

This type of koppelverkoop, tying, having to buy V because you want P, will be illegal in Netherland too. V's market share w.r.t. selling P is exactly 100%. That'll exceed the legal limit of 50%. P is not related to V. You cannot avoid having to buy V if you want P. There is no objective justification, and so on. What VOICE is doing is illegal, no matter what their goals are.<silence>

You are obvously not a lawyer. Koppelverkoop is not illegal. It is only not allowed if certain conditions are met. Furthermore, in order for something to be koppelverkoop, two products must be sold. VOICE does not sell PMMail. We are giving it for free to anyone who either sponsors VOICE for two consecutive years, or for those who sponsor with two standard sponsorunits. Sponsoring VOICE is not buying a product, so, in fact, no products at all are being sold.

Internet / Re: Firefox 45.9.0 & Youtube
« on: October 12, 2017, 10:07:00 pm »
Hi Guzzi,

now I do feel addressed.
It never was my intention to complain! In my first posting here I wrote:
Anyway thank you to those who continue to work on firefox!
And before opening the issue I considered and tried every suggestion made here in the forum.


My remarks were general and certainly not aimed at you. In fact, you already did exactly what I suggested. When a few people with the same problem add to the ticket it will probably be reopened, or it might have to wait until FF 52 has been ported. Dmitry does take his work seriously, but, as I said, it is almost impossible to fix a bug that he can't reproduce.

Internet / Re: Firefox 45.9.0 & Youtube
« on: October 11, 2017, 10:22:57 pm »
Hi Holger,

...I opened a ticket, but it was closed quite soon by dimik.
Perhaps someone would like to contribute too?

Yeah, I read that...bugger, not sure why dmik closed it so soon, I really did not think much was done to research. I did update the ticket with my details of what I saw, including a screenshot of the YouTube stats page overlaid on the video presentation space, which is clearly showing that YouTube msg...hopefully they re-consider.

The problem is, that bugs should be reproducible to be able to address them. In dmiks case it does seem to work after reloading the page. So, he has nothing to go on. Further testing and providing a "fails always" scenario will surely reopen the bug, as will more reports of people having the same issue. Remember, a bug does not exist until it has been reported and only one report might be a setup problem. Complaining in fora is not a bug report (not addressed to you, Dariusz). Here it works, but I have a different issue. Playing a youtube video, it will start normally, then display  the dreaded loading circle. Gets stuck there until I move the slider back to restart it. After that, it often plays normally. Does anyone else see this? I so, I will open a bug.

Typically a bug that affects only one user) Kudos to Martin for investigating it-

Mail-News / Re: PMMail 3.22 and SMTP authentication...can it do that?
« on: October 11, 2017, 10:04:26 pm »

Paid? For what? You paid for version 2.x, which was owned by somebody else. VOICE bought the rights, so they have the right to charge a fee for their work on version 3.x. PMMail is actually a bonus for being a member of VOICE, nothing more. The proceeds are used to support OS/2, in many ways, and VOICE is a non profit organization that very much deserves support. BTW, ALL work done to PMMail is done by volunteers.

 Please see for the details.

To clarify this, since VOICE is now a Dutch based 'stichting', it no longer has members, therefore PMMail is of course no longer exclusive for members. From the VOICE bylaws: "A PMMail/2 licence is free for those who have been at least two consecutive years a VOICE sponsor with one standard sponsor unit per year and for board members. Others can obtain a PMMail/2 licence by donating two standard sponsor units to VOICE."

As Doug mentioned, the income from sales of sponsorunits is mostly used for funding software development, some funds go to sponsoring Warpstock Europe. The board does NOT get any renumeration. In previous years, some board members got free admission to Warpstock, next year this will not be the case. We care about the platform and the users and dedicate all of the income of VOICE to promotion and support. The board pays for stamps when having to send snail mail out of their own pockets).

Same here- But... If I use after closing a session without logging out, I am still logged in. I can't find a setting in my profile to stay logged in, so I assume it automatically keeps you logged in, perhaps based on IP address.
Looked a bit further and found out:
It is indeed ip address and sadly it only remembers one. The workaround is to login with the full version (scroll down to switch to it), checking the 'stay logged in' box. Then close the session and open the mobile version again.

Applications / Re: ClamAV-GUI v3.5.1 (rexx based)
« on: October 05, 2017, 11:18:42 pm »
A clamavgui RPM package to go with the clamav rpms?

Applications / Re: Firefox crashes on maps
« on: September 25, 2017, 08:35:51 pm »
The latest version from the AN exp repo does not crash when browsing maps or using streetview.

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