Poll

If IBM released OS/2 Warp 5, how important would full compatibility to OS/2's existing abilities be?

Low
0 (0%)
Medium
3 (60%)
High
1 (20%)
Critical
1 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: December 31, 2017, 08:51:09 pm

Author Topic: Compatibility with OS/2  (Read 4553 times)

Sergey Posokhov

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2017, 08:56:19 pm »
Okay.  If I don't hear from anybody else who's able to help me, I will try to contact someone at IBM directly.
There are no employees in IBM who remember the 90s.
According to a report by Russian-speaking IBM employee from the forum sql.ru, "IBM today is a conglomerate of companies acquired in Silicon Valley and all around the globe".
So it's better to buy the latest OS version from Arca Noae and concentrate one's efforts on free software.
And, of course, they will not sell nor open anything to a random person (including you and me).

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2017, 10:34:31 pm »
There are no employees in IBM who remember the 90s.
According to a report by Russian-speaking IBM employee from the forum sql.ru, "IBM today is a conglomerate of companies acquired in Silicon Valley and all around the globe".
So it's better to buy the latest OS version from Arca Noae and concentrate one's efforts on free software.
And, of course, they will not sell nor open anything to a random person (including you and me).

I hope people, who WERE employees in the 90s, will come forward from wherever they are now, and help continue development.  Some may have retired, and are looking for things to do. :-)

Sergey Posokhov

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2017, 03:48:30 pm »
I hope people, who WERE employees in the 90s, will come forward from wherever they are now
Some of them are connected with Arca Noae.

When I discovered a bug in Panorama we are (with Alex G who's working on OS4 kernel) contacted Lewis Rosenthal, and he asked one of ex-IBM employees about possible effects of the bug (it was annoying bug with boot time crashes in OS4 and colored snow on the screen in eCS 2.x). Then someone (who? I don't know) fixed it.

Both ArcaOS and OS4 kernels works fine. Everything fine, after all. I would like to see both kernels in one installation. But, of course, nobody will deliver them or fix old software for free.

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2017, 04:24:43 pm »
I hope people, who WERE employees in the 90s, will come forward from wherever they are now
Some of them are connected with Arca Noae.

Interesting.  It is my hope some of them will come over, but I don't hold my breath.  Most people are offended by the fact that this is a project given over to God first, and then to people, and not being done for money.  I have a history of offering up good solutions to people only to have them rejected solely on that basis.  As such, I am accustomed to it.

When I discovered a bug in Panorama we are (with Alex G who's working on OS4 kernel) contacted Lewis Rosenthal, and he asked one of ex-IBM employees about possible effects of the bug (it was annoying bug with boot time crashes in OS4 and colored snow on the screen in eCS 2.x). Then someone (who? I don't know) fixed it.

Both ArcaOS and OS4 kernels works fine. Everything fine, after all. I would like to see both kernels in one installation. But, of course, nobody will deliver them or fix old software for free.

I would like others to come work on ES/2 once the kernel is sufficiently developed.  By having this kernel be from-scratch with our own tools to create and debug new code, and being wholly un-encumbered with any of man's legal licenses, it really empowers people to move forward with a great toolset and a great platform.  My goal is I would like to see ES/2 replace Windows, Linux, and Apple's OS.  I also plan (James 4:15) to create a portable ES/2 version for ARM-based devices, called AS/2.

I want to get ES/2 completed, write a few other apps, and then turn my attention toward replacing all of OS/2 and making a truly native ES/2 distribution that isn't just the kernel, but is a whole new OS.  I do not want to do this coding alone, but it has to start somewhere.  I also have goals in creating hardware which I would really like to address.  I would author equally open-source tools for that project as well, and do it in ES/2.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 05:11:13 pm by Rick C. Hodgin »

BigGoofyGuy

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2017, 04:50:41 am »
After IBM had won that lawsuit against Microsoft for stopping OS/2 Warp from being pre-installed on computers, I had hoped they would continue developing their operating system to compete with Windows. Alas, they did not. I am glad there was eComStation and now Arca Noae to continue.

It would be neat if there was some backward compatibility but I don't see it as being critical.
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Devon

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2017, 12:19:18 pm »
When I look at Linux I see Linus Torvalds, who is by all accounts a vile, crass, mean, spiteful, insulting, profane individual who thinks nothing of giving people the finger on camera, or using all manner of profane words to yell at people online.  And when I look at GNU I see Richard Stallman, who is by all accounts, a complete pervert who believes that pedophilia and necrophilia should be legalized, among many other odd things.

I don't really think it's about a matter of emotion. Alan Cox has explained many times how Linus' responses are justified.... it's Linus' job to get the point across. Sometimes you can't reason with people, so he has to wake them up and explain the situation in a more brash way.

With a negative attitude like that towards everything, you're just going to shoot yourself in the foot as it's going to take an insane amount of time to code everything from scratch for one person (would 20 years be a gentle assumption?) That's why few projects build everything from scratch when there's already Linux.

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2017, 01:01:48 pm »
When I look at Linux I see Linus Torvalds, who is by all accounts a vile, crass, mean, spiteful, insulting, profane individual who thinks nothing of giving people the finger on camera, or using all manner of profane words to yell at people online.  And when I look at GNU I see Richard Stallman, who is by all accounts, a complete pervert who believes that pedophilia and necrophilia should be legalized, among many other odd things.

I don't really think it's about a matter of emotion. Alan Cox has explained many times how Linus' responses are justified.... it's Linus' job to get the point across. Sometimes you can't reason with people, so he has to wake them up and explain the situation in a more brash way.

People are valuable.  Special.  Worth investing the time of an explanation, rather than just a response.  There's no justification for being harshly insulting, vulgar, obscene, etc.

Alan Cox is simply wrong in that regard, and so is Linus.  Alan is essentially an enabler for bad behavior.

With a negative attitude like that towards everything, you're just going to shoot yourself in the foot as it's going to take an insane amount of time to code everything from scratch for one person (would 20 years be a gentle assumption?) That's why few projects build everything from scratch when there's already Linux.

I don't view it as negative, but necessary.  We must be lifted out of the muck of sin and sin's impact upon this world.  We must make conscious, purposeful choices to reject things that stem from our sin condition, and seek after that which does not have sin.  Only then are we able to proceed correctly, seeking no longer to satiate or serve our sin-tendancies (profanity, yelling, and doing sinful things), and instead we consciously place emphasis on not being that way, but instead looking up to the Lord, looking within to gain an understanding, and then walking forward and teaching others that our limits as men and women (in and of sin) can be overcome, but not just by us alone, but in looking up first, because then He/His teachings move to the front to naturally guide us in a new way.

I do not want to work on this project alone.  I'm 48 years old.  All things being equal people in my family live into their mid-70s.  That gives me 22+ years left to do what I want to change, affect, and impact this world.  I have an interest in OS development, so I apply it where I can, building a foundation on the Lord, and moving up from there so all will be solid, and have right goals and intents.

My hope is others will see the progress being made, and come forward to give the best of what they have to the Lord, through not only this project, but also the other things in their lives.

Bottom line:  I care about you.  I care about people.  That caring comes from the inside and the caring the Lord first had for each of you, and has given me.  It is real, deep, and guides me to invest so much labor into this project.  I want you to have a full open source Public Domain license operating system so you can use it, or use its dedign or code as a base for doing more.

I want to empower you to be un-debted owners free and clear of entanglements, and not renters.  I want to help you with real growth and prosperity to achieve all your life goals.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 01:04:37 pm by Rick C. Hodgin »

Devon

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2017, 02:40:42 am »
People are valuable.  Special.  Worth investing the time of an explanation, rather than just a response.  There's no justification for being harshly insulting, vulgar, obscene, etc.

Alan Cox is simply wrong in that regard, and so is Linus.  Alan is essentially an enabler for bad behavior.

I don't view it as negative, but necessary.  We must be lifted out of the muck of sin and sin's impact upon this world.  We must make conscious, purposeful choices to reject things that stem from our sin condition, and seek after that which does not have sin.  Only then are we able to proceed correctly, seeking no longer to satiate or serve our sin-tendancies (profanity, yelling, and doing sinful things), and instead we consciously place emphasis on not being that way, but instead looking up to the Lord, looking within to gain an understanding, and then walking forward and teaching others that our limits as men and women (in and of sin) can be overcome, but not just by us alone, but in looking up first, because then He/His teachings move to the front to naturally guide us in a new way.

I do not want to work on this project alone.  I'm 48 years old.  All things being equal people in my family live into their mid-70s.  That gives me 22+ years left to do what I want to change, affect, and impact this world.  I have an interest in OS development, so I apply it where I can, building a foundation on the Lord, and moving up from there so all will be solid, and have right goals and intents.

My hope is others will see the progress being made, and come forward to give the best of what they have to the Lord, through not only this project, but also the other things in their lives.

Bottom line:  I care about you.  I care about people.  That caring comes from the inside and the caring the Lord first had for each of you, and has given me.  It is real, deep, and guides me to invest so much labor into this project.  I want you to have a full open source Public Domain license operating system so you can use it, or use its dedign or code as a base for doing more.

I want to empower you to be un-debted owners free and clear of entanglements, and not renters.  I want to help you with real growth and prosperity to achieve all your life goals.

Sure, people are special (1 John 2:2), but that's a separate issue when it comes to operating systems. Linus Torvalds cares deeply about technology and exemplifies a strict standard of quality. There's a lot of people who are involved in coding nowadays that need a bit of a "wake up", and talking sweet words isn't going to convey this.

In fact... if you want to get 'Biblically' involved there's a PERFECT analogy in Matthew 12:34. Christ called out the religious pharisees for their crap (who by the way were trying to be mindful of their speech) re: "vipers" which is no different from Linus' profanities. If Christ were to sweet talk them, they just wouldn't get it. And most of them still didn't after all of that...

Being legalistic and fixating on sin just makes you a pharisee who alienates other people and walks with two left feet in society. Everyone will always sin (1 John 1:9), so move on. Forcefully making yourself "not sin" misses the point as you try to enable yourself through human good, which God isn't a fan of by the way (Romans 4:5-6). So then it becomes a matter of hyperventilating on emotion and misconstruing everything as "sinful". Don't hypnotize yourself into an emotional frenzy or see everything as sinful.

There's NOTHING wrong with Linux, and claiming God is against it is a tough order that I can easily refute (along with works salvation and sinless perfection). But that's getting highly off topic and not relevant to a forum dedicated to OS/2.

You're just shooting yourself in the foot--twice... in terms of not getting Bible Doctrine and fixating on a "sin" tangent, and arrogantly rejecting community resources to create an ASTRONOMICAL amount of overhead.

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2017, 12:32:13 pm »
[snipl

You misunderstand.  And, I do not debate people, Devon.  I teach.

If you want to learn from my actions and choices the information is before you.

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2017, 02:13:25 pm »
I'd like to ask everyone to please vote again as I suspect inappropriate / invalid voting previously.

If you have a voice, please cast your vote and then add a comment post indicating how you voted and, if you'd like to share your reasoning for my knowledge, please also add a comment as to why you feel that way.  You can also send me a private message if you prefer.

Thank you for helping to make this poll a legitimate sample of data from the active OS/2 community.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 02:15:01 pm by Rick C. Hodgin »

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2017, 02:32:53 pm »
Hi Rick.

What I had understood with time is that the OS/2 community not only want to preserve the "OS/2 experience" (how the GUI looks and works) but also want to run the set of old apps they are used to. If you ask people will answer you "I was a 100% compatibility clone with all the OS/2 apps running, DOS and WIN16 support, like OS/2 was meant to be". And that is just too much of a work for one man.

Even that people will request something elegant, state of the art and perfect as first release, I'm against that approach. I will suggest you to focus on some little accomplishment on the OS/2 compatibility area (even if it is not perfect or complete) and grow your project from there. Show the community something that may be interesting and that has the potential to be improved.

I'm sorry I can not complete understand kernel development or how close or far are you to the goal, but once I see something that boots and can run a simple OS/2 command text binary I will think about it and provide more feedback.

My ideas are limited by my lack of knowledge on this area, but if you are starting with a kernel development my only idea is to create a kernel that will trick the rest of OS/2 binaries and components (CPI, PM, SOM, WPS) that they are running on the original OS/2 kernel. Even that we know that we may not get full driver compatibility, but the "main kernel drivers" (or the drivers required to run the basic components, like CPI and PM) should be cloned and adapted.

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RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2017, 02:42:07 pm »
...if you are starting with a kernel development my only idea is to create a kernel that will trick the rest of OS/2 binaries and components (CPI, PM, SOM, WPS) that they are running on the original OS/2 kernel. Even that we know that we may not get full driver compatibility, but the "main kernel drivers" (or the drivers required to run the basic components, like CPI and PM) should be cloned and adapted.

My goals are to be 100% compatible.  If something runs on OS2KRNL today, it should run on ES2KRNL with zero change.

Beyond that, I want to migrate things forward.  You can see that position here (and here).

I have never expected to do this project alone, but all large projects have to start somewhere.  This is where ES/2 is starting.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 06:49:00 pm by Rick C. Hodgin »