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pls , help me about the problem and limitation of OS/2

Started by clericvn, 2007.11.01, 02:11:04

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clericvn

Hi everybody
Now , i have to do the assignment about the OS/2 operating system
Can u tell me some problem and limition of OS/2 or Advantages of OS2
I am looking your answer !!
Thank you very much

kim

Well, wikipedia has a lot of feature information about OS2 and as well there is this little thread 100 things about OS2 & eCS that I like - this thread, so far, has 31 things that we like about OS2.

Do you have any specific criteria or topics that you have to evaluate or focus on? Might be easier to answer your question.

S.SubZero

How in the world does someone get an assignment about OS/2?

Well, whatever.
Quote from: clericvn on 2007.11.01, 02:11:04
Can u tell me some problem and limition of OS/2
I ran OS/2 in the early to mid-90's.  I loved it.  I tried to convert people, I attended the Warp 3 premiere in New York City (chatted with Kate Mulgrew), I still wear my old "Fast Pane Relief" OS/2 t-shirts to the gym now and then, and generally I feel a strong nostalgia when talking about it.  After an 11-year hiatus I have been tinkering with OS/2 4.52 in virtualization software (Virtualbox).  I have no special reason for this, it's mostly curiosity at the current state of the OS/2 community.  While my experience with OS/2 recently has been limited to virtual machines on one laptop and a limited software collection, my experience could easily resemble someone trying OS/2 for the first time.

The very first limitation, and the most glaring limitation, is one that limited OS/2 in the 90's, and can't go away: OS/2 is not designed for the typical user.  It's not.  The typical user is your mom, or your little sister, or your non-computer-literate dad, or maybe your grandfather.  OS/2 is NOT made for these people.  It's not functional enough, it's not friendly enough, it's not stable enough (more on this later), it's not "nice" enough.  OS/2 is still a cold, emotionless, dull OS.  It also relies heavily on the command line, which typical users should never, ever use.  The command line is scary, it's garlic.  The Presentation Manager desktop, while inventive (in 1993) and interesting, is not made for the general public.  It's far too limiting and complicated.  While you can bolt on additional programs to try to compensate for the WPS's outdated shortcomings, it just leads into my next point..

OS/2, by 2007 standards, is not stable.  I know people will argue this.  I have no real counter-point.  I can only tell you what I, a "typical user" trying typical things a Windows user may do, have experienced, and that has been many, many, *MANY* hung desktops, and I am talking about "install OS, go in first time, change desktop colors a little, click a window, desktop hangs.  Installed for five minutes).  In 1995 OS/2 was "more stable" than Windows 3.1 and Windows 95.  However, NT 3.51 was equal if not superior in stability, and by Windows 2000 it was pretty much over.  OS/2 has basic underlying problems that hang the desktop and force reboots.  As OS/2 users rely more and more on old unix ports and patched hacks (read: Flash), the stability only diminishes.  Now I know people will say MY OS/2 BOX NEVER CRASHES BLAH BLAH.. They are fooling themselves, OR they have what I call "stability through inaction."  I have known VERY stable OS/2 boxes.  The trick with them is that they are usually off in a corner, with no keyboard, running some background application.  In this capacity they do very well.  It's the minute people touch it that the whole thing can come to a halt.

The third point which I hinted at above is apps.  OS/2 users do in fact rely heavily on either very old apps, or ports that are based on old code, or hodge-podge Windows ports (see: Odin).  A guy I was talking to on IRC the other day told me he *ONLY* uses Lotus Smartsuite 1.7 for OS/2, the latest version they made.  Nevermind that this is EIGHT VERSIONS behind the Windows version, but if you've ever used any word processor on Windows or *nix and then seen this travesty your eyes may just bleed.  The unanti-aliased fonts alone made me cringe.  Last I checked SS-OS/2 can't even really work with Office files past Office 2000 format.  I asked about this and his response was that people should use RTF... Like he just asks his manager "yeah I know you use Office 2007 but can you send only RTF files?"  I see this happening.  NOT.  (I will discuss OpenOffice shortly).  OS/2 users are VERY lucky to have current Mozilla apps, and I was very pleased to see Firefox, Seamonkey, and all those in OS/2 forms, and all bleeding edge right with the versions everyone else uses.  Of course if you want to watch Youtube videos you'll be using a "patched" version of Flash from two versions ago that impacts browser stability.

My fourth point also hits on apps.  "Native" OS/2 applications are weird.  In 1996 I used a PM-based zip app that relied on text-based zip and unzip apps to work.  In 2007 I use a PM-based zip app.. that relies on text-based zip and unzip apps to work.  I have never seen a GUI app for zipping and unzipping files in OS/2 that could do it internally.  The apps I have tried are all very strange and nowhere near as intuitive as Windows or Linux zip utilities.  One awesome irony I found was the zip application I found worked the best and was the simplest, also came ONLY in a zipped format.  So to use this package at all, you need to download ANOTHER zip program just to unzip it (probably a command line one.. see my first point).

Point five is hardware.  OS/2 is old, and really doesn't handle new hardware too well.  I've been told a few times that my OS/2 4.52 would "fly" on dedicated hardware, and I have a spare P4 box here, but really, why would I bother?  What is OS/2 going to do with a gig of ram?  A Radeon X850XT PE video card.. OS/2's gaming technology is trapped in the pre-3Dfx era.  A Creative Audigy card?  Have you ever heard those crappy default sounds in OS/2?  OS/2 can't do ACPI, doesn't understand non-standard (read: most new) hardware, and still defaults to installing drivers for COM ports and floppy drives. 

Point six:  ECS.  EComStation is OS/2 with a lot of frilly edges.  It also costs $39 a year for me to say that.  Serenity, the company that makes EcomStation, has decided that OS/2 should cost approximately infinity times more than Linux, an OS that is FAR better on features, hardware support, community support, and user friendliness (and Linux is barely user friendly even now).  It also costs infinity times more than Sun Solaris.  Because it's better than Solaris.  Or something.  Not only does Serenity charge for ECS, they charge for things NO OTHER PLATFORM pays for.  Flash?  Pay.  OpenOffice?  Pay.  I mean if they are gonna charge for OpenOffice they should at LEAST change the name to something reflecting the non-openness.  (for the record, Sun's version of OpenOffice, StarOffice, is free).  Oh, and did I mention OS/2 OpenOffice is a few revisions behind current?  For the money paid for OS/2 OO, the guy next door on his free Linux install can get a newer version of OO, for free.  The popular counter-argument I hear is that Serenity is a company, and they are trying to make money so they can continue OS development blahblah.. This argument was OK in 1994.  Looking at what happened to Linux defeats that argument.  Linux does ACPI, fancy desktop effects, plays Unreal Tournament, runs on virtually everything, supports over 4GB of RAM (64-bit Linux) and costs nothing.  ECS does none of these things and costs $259.

Quote from: clericvn on 2007.11.01, 02:11:04Advantages of OS2
I think the only real benefit OS/2 provides is that it's virtually unhackable and unvirusable.  This is more because there's just no hacks or viruses for it.  The chance of a drive-by pop-up website installing sneaky keylogging code in OS/2 is nil, because really, who is going to bother?  If you know someone that perpetually gets bad spyware/virus infections, doesn't play games, has low-end hardware, doesn't need much more functionality beyond what Seamonkey provides and maybe an IM client like SIM (which is not particually pretty but works kinda), OS/2 would reduce their problems significantly.  And OS/2 tends to boot pretty fast so when they inevitably crash it watching Youtube videos they can just CTRL-ALT-DEL and be back up in no time.

That's really all I can offer, and I apologize now for all the OS/2 users I probably enraged with this post.  I was one of you once, now I'm a JAFO.  (Seamonkey will probably crash after I try to close it now)


clericvn


RobertM

clericvn,

I'd disagree with the below sentiments - in part or in whole.

(1) I find OS/2 to still be more stable than Windows. While GUI hangs are an issue with OS/2, tools like CAD help eliminate that issue (comes with eCS). In addition, even IF Windows was more stable when initially installed, it degrades severely over time, which OS/2 isn't prone to do to nearly the ame degree.

(2) OS/2 still can serve more traffic than Windows on less resources (making it an ideal server solution).

Read the list that Kim pointed out for more...


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
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Saijin_Naib

Unfortunately, Ive had experiences similar to SSub. Ive reinstalled windows on this machine ONCE due to software issue (wrecked partition tables courtesey of Ubuntu and Zeta). Ive reinstalled eCS over 20 times, three times this week alone.

If you dont look it it funny, its stable as hell. Unfortunately, I tend to look funny at my eCS box too often it would seem.

That aside, I keep using it, so that says something for it..

os2monkey

Great security - While I have heard people say that "security through obscurity" is not really more secure - since theoretically there are still holes open to someone who wants to hack an obscure system - in reality it is very secure to use a  minority OS as no one really cares about it.
No matter how many security programs I have on windows, I just don't trust it to be safe with important data and transactions.
On ecs I do feel pretty safe since there is really no keyloggers, spyware etc.

Stability "so so" - It seems that os/2 is a lot pickier about the quality of hardware for some reason. I have two machines, one that is very buggy with ECS but stable with windows. The other seems more stable with ECS, although it does still crash on occasion. It might have something to do with the quality of specific hard drivers though, perhaps.

Slowed development yet still modern in many ways - One thing that is funny to me is that the largest downside of os/2 is that it's major development was stopped dead in the past (yes there are improvements being made, but it's basically still the same os as the original warp.). BUT.. to me this is also one of the greatest strengths. The other operating systems (windows, mac os x, even linux to some degree), users are caught in a hardware upgrade cycle which is not very environmental. We have perfectly good computers  ending up in garbage heaps just because they do not run the latest vista and people need to upgrade to access the latest software. It's a total waste of resources. The original hardware maximum requirements for "os/2 warp 4" was a pentium 1 90mhz processor with 12mb ram.. so obviously my P4 1.6GHZ 1GB ram machine runs pretty well on it :). I'm not going to have to upgrade this hardware as long as I am happy with ECS - and with new open source software (openoffice, firefox, etc) is being ported regularly on this system there doesn't seem to be a reason not to be happy with it.


Compatible with older software - I really like the fact that ECS runs old software likes windows 3.1 and legacy DOS applications so well (IE it has a full copy of windows 3.1 you can run with a click) Old doesn't mean it's not useful. Trying to run DOS apps on a new windows machine is painful, because you have to slow it down.

Being Different and learning - As funny as this might sound, the mainstream operating systems have become boring to me.
I have experimented with Windows, Linux, mac classic and os x.
Windows and OS X work really well and simple, but they are boring :).
I've been hacking with linux distributions for about 7 years, and I still find it too difficult to use productively for a desktop (good servers though). ECS is a great middle ground, being more challanging then windows but not as difficult as Linux.
I just like learning to control, configure and use my computer in a different way without wanting to pull my hair out in the process.

The funny thing is when I first booted an ECS live demo cd I was really not impressed. It looked like a linux OS to me with limited software. But the more I have played with the operating system the more I have come to appreciate it's power and interesting features. For example, it's pretty easy to access windows network shares from a workgroup once you know how, but not as easy on many linux distributions. That function is just built in and ready to be used. USB support actually seems better then my windows 2k machine :).. my Windows box will not see my digital camera without special drivers but it's just plug and play in os/2 and ECS.


RobertM

Quote from: os2monkey on 2007.11.02, 05:48:47
Great security - While I have heard people say that "security through obscurity" is not really more secure - since theoretically there are still holes open to someone who wants to hack an obscure system - in reality it is very secure to use a  minority OS as no one really cares about it.
No matter how many security programs I have on windows, I just don't trust it to be safe with important data and transactions.
On ecs I do feel pretty safe since there is really no keyloggers, spyware etc.

Add to that a firewall that works (based off the very secure AIX version) and a wonderful TCP/IP stack which also helps prevent many exploits that still exist in Vista.

Quote from: os2monkey on 2007.11.02, 05:48:47
Stability "so so" - It seems that os/2 is a lot pickier about the quality of hardware for some reason. I have two machines, one that is very buggy with ECS but stable with windows. The other seems more stable with ECS, although it does still crash on occasion. It might have something to do with the quality of specific hard drivers though, perhaps.

There is definitely something about how Warp and eCS use hardware that can cause such problems... wish I knew specifically what. My Netfinity is on 24/7 and serves 6 websites, ftp and mysql, monitors our UPS and gets use through the LAN all the time. Never crashed. My HP (well, mostly HP) machine crashes all the time.

Marginal memory is supposedly a big culprit - and almost all computer memory in non high-end machines is marginal memory (there's supposedly a letter code on the back... the higher the letter, the worst quality). Dont know how true that is (cheap memory affecting OS/2), but I do remember reading such a while back... and it does fit with the Netfinity having very very high grade memory that goes through some extensive testing, and is in a system that can lock out a failing module and continue without issues.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
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clericvn

 Thanks about all answer , now, i have more information about the OS 2
But i still have some problem :
======================================================
+) From 1987 to now , how many main version of OS 2 was introduced ?
-) I not sure but i think there are ten version :
      = OS/2 1.10 SE – ( 1988 )
      = OS/2 1.10 EE – (1989)
      = OS/2 1.20 – (1989)
      = OS/2 1.30
      = OS/2 2.00 - (1992)
      = OS/2 2.10
      = OS2 2.11
      = OS/2 Warp Version 3
      = OS\2 Warp 4
are that true ?

========================================================

+) Do you know some computer which still use OS 2 operating system ? For example ,  many bank installations ,they use Automated Teller Machines which run OS-2

========================================================

Thank you very much !

P/S to "S.SubZero" and "RobertM" , thanks for your replay , it is very good information for me !

The Blue Warper

Quote from: clericvn on 2007.11.03, 04:22:33

+) Do you know some computer which still use OS 2 operating system ? For example,  many bank installations ,they use Automated Teller Machines which run OS-2


You may want to give a look to this page, which reports some companies using eComStation for their businesses:

http://en.ecomstation.ru/solutions/?action=solutions

[eComStation (eCS) is an OS/2 based OS by Serenity Systems: maybe you should consider it too]

kim

Quote from: clericvn on 2007.11.03, 04:22:33
+) From 1987 to now , how many main version of OS 2 was introduced ?
-) I not sure but i think there are ten version :
      = OS/2 1.10 SE – ( 1988 )
      = OS/2 1.10 EE – (1989)
      = OS/2 1.20 – (1989)
      = OS/2 1.30
      = OS/2 2.00 - (1992)
      = OS/2 2.10
      = OS2 2.11
      = OS/2 Warp Version 3
      = OS\2 Warp 4
are that true ?

About the version; current version is v4.52; so shouldn't we also count in MCP/ACP (Merlin Convenience Pack / Aurora Convenience Pack) 1&2 as releases? The Merlin code was for the client and the Aurora code was for the server. So most of the licensed system in production today are most likely running any of the mentioned code base.

RobertM

Quote from: kimhav on 2007.11.03, 13:46:23
Quote from: clericvn on 2007.11.03, 04:22:33
+) From 1987 to now , how many main version of OS 2 was introduced ?
-) I not sure but i think there are ten version :
      = OS/2 1.10 SE – ( 1988 )
      = OS/2 1.10 EE – (1989)
      = OS/2 1.20 – (1989)
      = OS/2 1.30
      = OS/2 2.00 - (1992)
      = OS/2 2.10
      = OS2 2.11
      = OS/2 Warp Version 3
      = OS\2 Warp 4
are that true ?

About the version; current version is v4.52; so shouldn't we also count in MCP/ACP (Merlin Convenience Pack / Aurora Convenience Pack) 1&2 as releases? The Merlin code was for the client and the Aurora code was for the server. So most of the licensed system in production today are most likely running any of the mentioned code base.

I agree with Kim, and actually there were refreshes to even the 4.52 releases:

- There was the original WSeB and MCP release
- ACP (WSeB) and MCP release 2 (WSeB CP2 or MCP2)
- ACP (WSeB) and MCP release 2 Post Fix (WSeB CP2 PF, MCP2 PF)

Numerous core system files (including the kernel) have went through revisions/fixes since then. For instance, my WSeB CP2 PF (which was the last release on CD from IBM) came with kernel 14.089 - currently I think the kernel is at 14.104 - so while you may not want to count those revisions, you still may want to count the later eCS revisions since they include those updates and come on CDs.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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RobertM

Hey all,

The OS/2 vs. Windows portion of this thread has been moved to a separate thread so the debate can (PEACEFULLY) continue there (since this thread was veering quite off topic):

http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,509.0/

Agree, disagree, agree to disagree, whichever... just keep it polite gang!

-Robert
OS/2 World Moderator


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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John

This for clericvn,

You may want to check out some vids at youtube :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnLmtuA42N8

You can also do some more searches at youtube on "OS/2 around the World" or "OS/2 vs NT shootout", some very old yet interesting articles there if you have the time and patience.

Personally, I've just brought an old 486DX4 back to life by installing Warp3, Dos and Red Hat5.2 in a dual boot environment. Warp3 is very snappy even on this old system. I intend to somehow possibly make it a project sometime to post a vid on youtube showing old Warp3 and XP on newer P4 side by side doing similar tasks for comparison and the time and steps taken to achieve common goals.

Hope you find all the answers you're looking for.