Poll

If IBM released OS/2 Warp 5, how important would full compatibility to OS/2's existing abilities be?

Low
0 (0%)
Medium
3 (60%)
High
1 (20%)
Critical
1 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: December 31, 2017, 08:51:09 pm

Author Topic: Compatibility with OS/2  (Read 11291 times)

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 08:04:29 pm »
I was thinking on the way in to work today...  I don't think I'll be able to maintain full binary compatibility with existing OS/2 software, UNLESS I am able to contact IBM and work out some kind of licensing agreement which allows me to use binary techniques to try to decompile and investigate the inner-workings of various aspects of their kernel, and some of the drivers.

Does anybody have a good working relationship with IBM?  I do not intend to make any money from ES/2, so it would have to be a willingness on IBM's part to donate the license to me so I could do that type of work legally.  But, apart from getting it written it wouldn't cost them anything.

If anybody has an idea in how to move forward, I would like to provide full binary compatibility with existing OS/2 apps in ES/2.  I want all of the code from back then to work in my new kernel, and to be able to then write replacement drivers one-by-one to enable all of the new features in a 64-bit environment, for example.

We can really do this well if we come together with our talents and work for a common goal.

Andreas Kohl

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 10:56:21 pm »
I was thinking on the way in to work today...  I don't think I'll be able to maintain full binary compatibility with existing OS/2 software, UNLESS I am able to contact IBM and work out some kind of licensing agreement which allows me to use binary techniques to try to decompile and investigate the inner-workings of various aspects of their kernel, and some of the drivers.
Why you're not reading the "The OS/2 Debugging Handbook". The four volumes should be available in BookMaster or portable document format if you don't want to order the printed edition.

I'm not a laywer so I cannot speech here about legal issues.

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 11:46:17 pm »
I was thinking on the way in to work today...  I don't think I'll be able to maintain full binary compatibility with existing OS/2 software, UNLESS I am able to contact IBM and work out some kind of licensing agreement which allows me to use binary techniques to try to decompile and investigate the inner-workings of various aspects of their kernel, and some of the drivers.
Why you're not reading the "The OS/2 Debugging Handbook". The four volumes should be available in BookMaster or portable document format if you don't want to order the printed edition.

I didn't know they existed.

UPDATE:  Volume I, Volume II, Volume III, Volume IV.

Quote from: Andreas Kohl
I'm not a laywer so I cannot speech here about legal issues.

I won't do anything illegal, but if there are legal sources and existing documentation or provisions that are part of standard releases by IBM or its authorized agents which give insight into things which can be known or reasonably inferred and then tested, I'm open to that.

I want to do the best job I can on this project.  And I want to encourage others to come and help me because they won't be helping me, but helping themselves and countless others.  I truly want to write an operating system that will give people a reason to leave Windows, leave Linux, leave Android products, leave Apple products.

My goals are ES/2 first (desktop OS/2 clone), but AS/2 second (ARM-based mobile OS).  I have a purpose and a plan and it is to give people back freedom, to give them power to move rightly, empowering them by the products they possess, rather than binding them up in spyware and things they don't want.

Freely available, fully open source code, no limitations on use or registration, and a solid design which comes from the best the Lord first gave me, with the help of others...  It is doable.  We just need to work together.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 11:58:42 pm by Rick C. Hodgin »

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 11:39:21 pm »

I didn't know they existed.

UPDATE:  Volume I, Volume II, Volume III, Volume IV.


Hi Rick.

Those books were always available for free download at the IBM redbooks site. I don't think that there is something illegal on using those books are references.

I even found on that is still online on the IBM site: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/SG244640.html

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Martin Iturbide
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Andreas Kohl

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 12:06:25 am »

I didn't know they existed.

UPDATE:  Volume I, Volume II, Volume III, Volume IV.

Those books were always available for free download at the IBM redbooks site.
Unfortunately the words "always" and "free" made the above statement wrong or at least inaccurate. You couldn't download any of the earlier mentioned files at all 20 years ago - a verifiable fact.

Quote
I don't think that there is something illegal on using those books are references.
Of course there's nothing illegal. But their content cannot serve as a reference (for what?). They deal with practical topics based on OS/2 Warp 3 - workbooks or training guides would fit better - and handbook is the right term used by ITSO. To cover later system or kernel enhancements it's quite easy to follow publications that refer to these books by using your BookManager READ/2 program's search function.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 02:35:55 am »
Unfortunately the words "always" and "free" made the above statement wrong or at least inaccurate. You couldn't download any of the earlier mentioned files at all 20 years ago - a verifiable fact.

Andreas, please cool off. You are right but if you are going to question every little thing on the forum people are going to start to ignore you, and this is not the USENET. You are not forced to reply every post, there is no prize for being the one that post the most on the forums.

If it is worthy I can ask IBM permission to republish those books, if someone is crying over IBM's copyright for having those books posted on a non-profit library.

Regards

« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 02:45:56 am by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
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RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 03:47:38 am »
If it is worthy I can ask IBM permission to republish those books, if someone is crying over IBM's copyright for having those books posted on a non-profit library.

Can you ask IBM about a obtaining a license to decompile and binary examine their boot, kernel, and driver code?  It would help me immensely.

Sigurd Fastenrath

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2017, 10:56:53 am »
Can you ask IBM about a obtaining a license to decompile and binary examine their boot, kernel, and driver code?  It would help me immensely.

With my 333 Post I would like to say, please do not take it personal, that this is the best joke I have ever read in this Forum during all the years - by far, very far....

It must be joking, must'nt it? Or...  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh8VTXSpEns
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 12:47:06 pm by Sigurd Fastenrath »

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2017, 11:26:56 am »
Can you ask IBM about a obtaining a license to decompile and binary examine their boot, kernel, and driver code?  It would help me immensely.

With my 333 Post I would like to say, please do not take it personal, that this is the best joke I have ever read in this Forum during all the years.

It must be joke, must'nt it? Or...  ;D

No joke.  If someone has a good working relationship with IBM, I would like to obtain a license like Arca Noae did, to legally examine the core OS/2 binary files through various means of reverse-engineering.

I would try to contact them myself, but business eloquence is not my strength.  I would harm my cause through ignorance, inexperience, and saying / writing the wrong things.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2017, 12:21:35 pm »
Can you ask IBM about a obtaining a license to decompile and binary examine their boot, kernel, and driver code?  It would help me immensely.

With my 333 Post I would like to say, please do not take it personal, that this is the best joke I have ever read in this Forum during all the years.

It must be joke, must'nt it? Or...  ;D

No joke.  If someone has a good working relationship with IBM, I would like to obtain a license like Arca Noae did, to legally examine the core OS/2 binary files through various means of reverse-engineering.

I would try to contact them myself, but business eloquence is not my strength.  I would harm my cause through ignorance, inexperience, and saying / writing the wrong things.

Hi Rick.

I'm sorry but I only have found the process to republish publications (print or electronic publications) under permission. I haven't found a way to request IBM permission to release binaries or source code. Also, if the document says in some part "IBM Internal" or "Confidential"  they would give permission.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2017, 03:24:58 pm »
Hi Rick.

I'm sorry but I only have found the process to republish publications (print or electronic publications) under permission. I haven't found a way to request IBM permission to release binaries or source code. Also, if the document says in some part "IBM Internal" or "Confidential"  they would give permission.

Okay.  If I don't hear from anybody else who's able to help me, I will try to contact someone at IBM directly.  Maybe David Barnes would know someone and be interested in helping his old OS get some new life. :-)

Andreas Kohl

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2017, 11:22:58 pm »
Andreas, please cool off.
No problem it was snowing in Masovia ;-)

Quote
You are right but if you are going to question every little thing on the forum people are going to start to ignore you, and this is not the USENET. You are not forced to reply every post, there is no prize for being the one that post the most on the forums.
You are here the moderator. But I don't realise why you have to invent such things. But now real content for post number 181 (round about a milliard):

If you have installed the latest "IBM Developer's Toolkit for OS/2 Warp Version 4" there's a online book "Kernel Debugger Reference" that can serve as reference. Warp 4 and derived products should further contain a file README.DBG to indicate the location of the debug kernels on the media.

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2017, 11:32:16 am »
Please add your vote to the poll.  I want an accurate view of the OS/2 community's thinking.

Suppose IBM came out with a new OS/2 ... how important would all of the legacy 16-bit support be in OS/2 Warp Version 5?  Support for old (1980s) hardware?

How important would full compatibility be in the year 2018 or later?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 02:03:52 pm by Rick C. Hodgin »

Devon

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2017, 11:13:55 pm »
I think just making a Linux distribution that mimics OS/2-like functionality in its graphical interface would be more ideal (and maybe a compatibility layer to run 32-bit OS/2 applications could be added in). Otherwise you're perpetually dealing with licensing problems, old closed source code and the inability to easily harness new hardware.

You could call it 'Warp/ix' and then be done with it.

RickCHodgin

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Re: Compatibility with OS/2
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2017, 09:01:29 pm »
I think just making a Linux distribution that mimics OS/2-like functionality...

I have not worked with Linux or GNU for matters of conscience.  When I look at Linux I see Linus Torvalds, who is by all accounts a vile, crass, mean, spiteful, insulting, profane individual who thinks nothing of giving people the finger on camera, or using all manner of profane words to yell at people online.  And when I look at GNU I see Richard Stallman, who is by all accounts, a complete pervert who believes that pedophilia and necrophilia should be legalized, among many other odd things.

I had planned in 2012 to go to GNU and complete the GNU HURD kernel for them, but then I learned those things about Stallman.  I had already decided not to work on Linux, which is why I was moving toward the HURD kernel.

I'm sorry, but I cannot support Linux or GNU for those reasons.  It's why I'm creating everything from scratch.  I want to have an offering based on holiness, on a real giving unto God purposefully, and not just creation for the sake of creation, and not for money, not for fame, but to honestly give the world something wonderful they can use, and without the negative aspects of mankind associated with existing offerings apart from forgiveness and repentance through Christ.

My intention with ES/2 is to give people the best we can create, and to do so to empower them.  Full source code.  Full legal rights.  Full everything.