Author Topic: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit  (Read 2756 times)

Lars

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2018, 10:19:44 am »
Did you test the new 32-bit driver with USBECD.SYS? Maybe it still works?

I have not tested. Looking at the USBECD.SYS source code, it expects the "standard" interface to USBD.SYS to register itself with USBD.SYS. Then, it offers the "standard" IDC entry point for being called back by the HC drivers on request termination ("standard" = as defined in the HTML document that is part of the DDK).
That is, it behaves like any other class device driver. Currently, these interfaces have not been touched and therefore it should still work.

I am talking about if AN decides to change these interfaces and making them proprietary.

Greg Pringle

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2018, 02:35:06 pm »
Am I missing something? What does a DDK license have to do with a new interface designed by AN. That by definition is an AN product. They would be free to disclose the interface.

Simply use a text editor and start listing the the header files and add some usage info.

What am I missing?

Martin Iturbide

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2018, 07:32:51 pm »
What am I missing?

Hi Greg.

On the past the IBM DDK license has been use as an excuse to do not share any kind of driver development or documentation on this platform.
I just want to kill the excuse :)

The real problem is that Lars and Wim will not be able to continue their developments on the new USB stack, if not information and/or source code is shared.

Quote
What does a DDK license have to do with a new interface designed by AN.
For what is known AN is using IBM DDK source code samples for theirs drivers. So, the drivers source code are in part ruled by the IBM DDK license.

Regards
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 07:37:05 pm by Martin Iturbide »
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ivan

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2018, 11:51:11 pm »
Let me drop something else in here.

In developing usb3 drivers are they going to include something to enable use of the ASMedia usb3/sata chips or is that impossible because non of the testers have systems using those chips?

Dave Yeo

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2018, 12:32:08 am »
Hi Ivan, I think there is a mis-conception of the testers group. It was originally formed to test ANPM and then re-purposed for beta testing other things including Arcaos. I assume that Arca Noae has a group of machines for development and initial testing and hopefully it is a wide range of machines and while the testers do test on even more machines, we're perhaps mainly putting the installer through more varied tests.
In the case of the new USB stack, to quote David,
Quote
This is what the next release of the USB stack will look like. Feel free to
use this software if you like. I am not asking for testing since this
software has been thoroughly tested and has passed the standard QA
testing. The major changes are:
...
And then mentioning the possibility of timing issues and such with other software.
There hasn't been any reports that I'm aware of of breakages.

Doug Bissett

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2018, 01:05:07 am »
Quote
Did you test the new 32-bit driver with USBECD.SYS? Maybe it still works?

I use USBECD.SYS with the mAPCUPS package. It never occurred to me that it might not work. It does work. Why would anyone think otherwise?

Quote
On the past the IBM DDK license has been use as an excuse to do not share any kind of driver development or documentation on this platform.
I just want to kill the excuse

This is silly. The DDK is required to use what AN developed, whether the driver is 32 bit, or not. AN cannot include the DDK in the code that they release to the public, but I expect the rest of it to be released, WHEN THE DRIVER IS FINISHED, and not before. Currently, the driver is under development, and testing. It is NOT available to the general population, yet. AN will also release their binary driver, using the official channels (Subscription, or ArcaOS license). Anybody else who wants it are on their own. If they have the DDK, and understand how to build the package, it should be possible, after AN finds the time to update the public repositories, and that may take a while, because those guys are busting their butts to get ArcaOS 5.0.2 ready for their users. It also makes sense to delay releasing the code, to make it more desirable to have a subscription, or buy ArcaOS (did I say that?).

Quote
Am I missing something? What does a DDK license have to do with a new interface designed by AN.

It is NOT a NEW interface. As I understand it, all that was done, was to replace all 16 bit code with 32 bit code. Previously, the (available) DRV32 package was incorporated to make it easier to use the DDK. The DDK is still copyright, and requires a license to use it. The results can be freely distributed, as the owner sees fit. AN sells support, and the service to build the binary, for those who buy a subscription.

Quote
In developing usb3 drivers are they going to include something to enable use of the ASMedia usb3/sata chips or is that impossible because non of the testers have systems using those chips?

In fact, I suspect (unfounded speculation, because I don't know), that the USB 3 part of the driver will be lifted from Linux, or BSD, so if Linux supports your chip, so will ArcaOS. FWIW, I have three different USB 3 adapters to test with, when the time comes. If you post the PCI output, that describes the parts, somebody may be able to say that they do have one that is similar (or not, as they choose).

Martin Iturbide

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2018, 02:01:40 am »
Quote
On the past the IBM DDK license has been use as an excuse to do not share any kind of driver development or documentation on this platform.
I just want to kill the excuse

This is silly. The DDK is required to use what AN developed, whether the driver is 32 bit, or not. AN cannot include the DDK in the code that they release to the public, but I expect the rest of it to be released, WHEN THE DRIVER IS FINISHED, and not before. Currently, the driver is under development, and testing. It is NOT available to the general population, yet. AN will also release their binary driver, using the official channels (Subscription, or ArcaOS license). Anybody else who wants it are on their own. If they have the DDK, and understand how to build the package, it should be possible, after AN finds the time to update the public repositories, and that may take a while, because those guys are busting their butts to get ArcaOS 5.0.2 ready for their users. It also makes sense to delay releasing the code, to make it more desirable to have a subscription, or buy ArcaOS (did I say that?).

Hi Doug, you seem to miss my earlier post.

Do you have hope that AN release the USB 3.0 source code to the USB Netlabs repository eventually. It may not be right away, but have you hear from them any intention to do that in the future ?

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Doug Bissett

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2018, 06:39:02 am »
Quote
Do you have hope that AN release the USB 3.0 source code to the USB Netlabs repository eventually.

I can't speak for AN, but as long as it can be done without breaking copyright laws, or licensing agreements, i expect that it will be released, when they are ready to do so, and that will likely be AFTER they finish the USB 3 support. I do know that everyone involved with AN are working long hours getting ArcaOS 5.0.2 ready to go. I doubt if USB 3 will be ready to go for that release, but it is a big step in the right direction, to get the drivers converted to 32 bit.

Greg Pringle

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2018, 04:19:36 pm »
It would be nice to have USB 3
A new ASUS H270M PLUS motherboard did not have any working USB. The backward compatible part did not work.
I added a StarTech USB 2.0 card with a Via chip set and all is well. I then had to convert to case wiring to allow USB 2.0 on the front panel.

The joys of OS/2.

Joop

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2018, 06:34:59 pm »
I really don't know what this is all about. I read this in "Input/Output Device Driver Reference for OS/2";

COPYRIGHT LICENSE: This publication contains printed sample application programs in source language, which illustrate OS/2 programming techniques. You may copy, modify, and distribute these sample programs in any form without payment to IBM, for the purposes of developing, using, marketing or distributing application programs conforming to the OS/2 application programming interface.

Each copy of any portion of these sample programs or any derivative work, which is distributed to others, must include a copyright notice as follows: "(C) (your company name) (year).  All rights reserved."

(C) Copyright International Business Machines Corporation 1996. All rights reserved.
Note to U.S. Government Users - Documentation related to restricted rights - Use, duplication or disclosure is subject to restrictions set forth in GSA ADP Schedule Contract with IBM Corp.

I don't read that you may not distribute it, that you may not modify it or that you may not copy it. This one comes from OS/2 Developer Connection Device Driver Kit, Version 4 Edition (June 1996).

Doug Bissett

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2018, 08:23:59 pm »
Quote
I don't read that you may not distribute it, that you may not modify it or that you may not copy it. This one comes from OS/2 Developer Connection Device Driver Kit, Version 4 Edition (June 1996).

The problem is not with distributing the final result. The problem is, that you cannot buy, rent, or sell, the license to use the DDK without IBM being involved. IBM no longer sells it, so your only option is to buy the license from somebody who already has it. Then,the seller needs to go through some legal procedure to convince IBM that they have destroyed all copies that they have, and get the new licensee registered as being licensed. Since IBM has no way to do that (and they can veto the new license anyway), you can't do it. Without the DDK, you cannot build the driver(s), so only those who have a license can build drivers that use the DDK.

Whether IBM would care, is another matter, but that is something that Arca Noae cannot take a chance on. If IBM goes after them, for some reason, they are out of business, and OS/2 will likely come to an end.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: AN changing USB driver stack to 32-bit
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2018, 10:04:57 pm »
I really don't know what this is all about. ...

Hi Joop.

1.- I see the problem from the Open source perspective. The license on the "1. Grant of License for the IBM Code" section it says:

Quote
In addition, IBM grants to you the non-exclusive, non-assignable, non-transferable right, under the applicable IBM copyrights, to reproduce and distribute, in object code form only, the IBM Code and/or the permitted derivative work thereof, but only in conjunction with and as part of the OS/2 Device Driver and only if you:

a) do not make any statements to the effect or which imply that the OS/2 Device Driver is "certified" by IBM or that its performance is guaranteed by IBM and

b) agree to indemnify, hold harmless and defend IBM and its subsidiaries and their suppliers from and against any and all claims, legal proceedings, liabilities, damages, costs and expenses, including attorney's fees, arising out of or in connection with your distribution of the IBM Code and/or the OS/2 Device Driver.

You must reproduce any copyright notice(s) on each copy, or partial copy, of the IBM Code. If you redistribute any of the AFM and/or PPD files you must include the following copyright notice: "Copyright 1988, 1989 Adobe Systems Incorporated. All Rights Reserved".


Uhm, reading it complete gives me a different context. I need to read it all again.


2.- -About using the IBM DDK, since IBM DDK was available with a free of charge registration on the IBM site, I think you can still use it legally while you comply to the license agreement that IBM provided. At least until IBM publish an announcement letter saying that is taking back the right of use on the IBM DDK.

Regards
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 10:26:29 pm by Martin Iturbide »
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