Author Topic: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS  (Read 17886 times)

David Graser

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Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« on: February 12, 2018, 09:28:12 am »
I took the ArcaOS 5.02 image, using DVD Toys, was able to easily burn the image onto a disk.  This was using an internal DVD writer.

I then tried it using my USB LG DVD writer.  DVD Toys could not find it.  However when I put a data disk into the drive, the drive is recognized easily by the operating system, however, with a blank disk in the USB drive, neither RJS CDWriter or DVD Toys was able to burn the image.

Is this a known issue, not being able to burn to an USB DVD or CD writer?


Lars

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2018, 02:00:39 pm »
Have you tried my USBMSD.ADD instead of the one that AN delivers ?  If not, you could give it a try.
If it still does not work, a trace of USBMSD.ADD would help (it's all explained in the "readusb.txt" file that comes with my package).

In principle the USBMSD.ADD (at least my version) should support SCSI "write" commands for USB DVD/CD drives. It should also support any DVD/CD specific SCSI commands.

Valery Sedletski

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 03:02:09 pm »
2David Graser: What is your os2cdrom.dmd version? You need a custom version from Froloff (cdrtools 2.01.01a59, or so), or from latest UDF 2.14-2.16. Older versions of OS2CDROM.DMD may not support ioctl's required to write CD's in packet mode. OS2CDROM.DMD 10.163 works for me.

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 03:33:01 pm »
At least for ArcaOS it's a known issue because I kept reminding the team.

I find RSJ reliably writes to USB DVD, so my findings seem different than yours. If you have DVD Toys, you'd need to uninstall at least part of it to allow RSJ to see the drive to burn to it. But RSJ is very old. I find it does not erase media reliably.

So for old machines, DVD Toys is OK, but for new ones, RSJ is the only way. Also, DVD Toys has no DOCUMENTED command line mode, while RSJ has one, so for automation, RSJ is better.

Some of what I wrote is absurd, but accurate. How can a Linux-based command line DVD program not offer command line? Because it's not documented. Someone who knew their way around this could release the right command files and do some minimal documentation. I doubt it would take more than a few hours.

Lars USBMSD.ADD does not make any difference. If I get a chance, I'd set up a trace. I have not tried the custom version from Froloff. Why wouldn't that be packaged by Arca Noae? Because the source code for it is apparently lost.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 03:37:34 pm by Neil Waldhauer »
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Valery Sedletski

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 04:47:12 pm »
CD/DVD Toys are only a frontend for CDRTools, so you can use CDRECORD directly, so command line mode will be available. So, this is not a problem. No idea why it cannot work for newer machines. It should work the same.

The custom version from Froloff is a bit older that that is offered in UDF package. So, it's better to install the version from UDF.

ak120

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 05:33:02 pm »
CD/DVD Toys are only a frontend for CDRTools, so you can use CDRECORD directly, so command line mode will be available.
Neil wrote about "undocumented" not "unavailable". I don't know how CDRTools and CDRECORD on OS/2 relate to the official cdrtools that are available for dozens of other platforms. Why not simply refer to the proper documentation for the used SPTI? Unfortunately the term "directly" introduces more complications into this topic. Usually libscg is used by cdrtools, the behaviour under OS/2 is at least undocumented or broken from the user's view.

Quote
So, this is not a problem. No idea why it cannot work for newer machines. It should work the same.
As long HBA support for OS/2 is existing there should not too much problems. That should set the limit to 10 year old workstation hardware in real life btw.

Quote
The custom version from Froloff is a bit older that that is offered in UDF package. So, it's better to install the version from UDF.
Does it mean that ArcaOS delivered an outdated or incapable version of OS2DASD.DMD?

ivan

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 06:36:50 pm »
Hi David,

The first thing you need to know is the standart scsi device descriptor [bus,]id[,lun] without that you are not likely to get very far.

I have found that writing CD/DVD using a drive letter does not work reliably in OS/2 so I don't use it (depends on which version of OS2CDROM.DMD you use).

Even though I have ArcaOS I have never installed DC/DVD Toys preferring to use the scripts I produced for MKISOFS2, CDRECORD2 and DVDDAO which work with anything I throw at them, even a slim DVD +-RW hanging off a SATA/USB adapter.

David Graser

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 07:33:48 pm »
2David Graser: What is your os2cdrom.dmd version? You need a custom version from Froloff (cdrtools 2.01.01a59, or so), or from latest UDF 2.14-2.16. Older versions of OS2CDROM.DMD may not support ioctl's required to write CD's in packet mode. OS2CDROM.DMD 10.163 works for me.

Thanks Valery!  I did an internet search and found the driver,  I installed it with the other 2 packages that the page recommended installing with it.

cdrtools 2.01.01a59
emx0944.exe
aspirb10.zip

Rebooted and started DVD Toys again.  Bingo, this worked like a charm.  This is with ArcaOS 5.02.

Tried RSJ Writer. but it did not work.  It was then I realized that this program probably only works with CDR drives and not DVD writers.

So it appears that without this version, ArcaOS 5.02 cannot install to an USB DVD writer.

Again thanks for all the help from everyone.

Valery Sedletski

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 08:03:12 pm »
2Andreas Kohl: I don't know what is undocumented in OS/2 version of cdrtools. It works the same as UNIX versions. AFAIK, it uses libscg too (It wrote a string like "Unofficial libscg transport ..." to the screen when writing CD's) .

Quote
As long HBA support for OS/2 is existing there should not too much problems. That should set the limit to 10 year old workstation hardware in real life btw.

What is HBA?

Quote
 
Quote
    The custom version from Froloff is a bit older that that is offered in UDF package. So, it's better to install the version from UDF.
 

Does it mean that ArcaOS delivered an outdated or incapable version of OS2DASD.DMD?

No, as I checked in my arcaos copy, it has latest OS2CDROM.DMD v. 10.163, the same as supplied with UDF 2.16

2David Graser:
Good that the version from cdrtools 2.01.01.a59 works for you. But v. 10.163 is newer and has more features. Some IOCTL's are missing from Froloff's version. RSJ may not work with it too. And UDF will not work with it, too. Did you checked, which CDRTOOLS version is supplied together with CD/DVD Toys? I'd suspect that this version work well with Froloff's version of OS2CDROM.DMD (because CD/DVD Toys uses Froloff's version of CDRTOOLS), but RSJ needs OS2CDROM.DMD from UDF distribution. This is only a hypothesis. Hm, looking into my version of DVD Toys, I don't see cdrecord in its installation directory. Where does it looks for it, interesting?

Yes, too bad that Nickk/Froloff disappeared both and did not left the sources.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 08:11:04 pm by Valery Sedletski »

Valery Sedletski

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 08:16:44 pm »
2ivan: SCSI descriptors like [bus,]id[,lun] helpful only for SCSI/ATAPI CD writers. They work via DaniS (or DaniATAPI? -- don't remember). For USB CD writers, you'll need OS2CDROM.DMD which works via drive letters, only. Interesting, does OS2AHCI supply a SCSI emulation, like DaniS does? So, SATA-atached writers will work too? Or, how else would SATA writers work? (I don't know as I haven't SATA CD writers)

David Graser

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2018, 09:27:57 pm »


No, as I checked in my arcaos copy, it has latest OS2CDROM.DMD v. 10.163, the same as supplied with UDF 2.16

2David Graser:
Good that the version from cdrtools 2.01.01.a59 works for you. But v. 10.163 is newer and has more features. Some IOCTL's are missing from Froloff's version. RSJ may not work with it too. And UDF will not work with it, too. Did you checked, which CDRTOOLS version is supplied together with CD/DVD Toys? I'd suspect that this version work well with Froloff's version of OS2CDROM.DMD (because CD/DVD Toys uses Froloff's version of CDRTOOLS), but RSJ needs OS2CDROM.DMD from UDF distribution. This is only a hypothesis. Hm, looking into my version of DVD Toys, I don't see cdrecord in its installation directory. Where does it looks for it, interesting?

Yes, too bad that Nickk/Froloff disappeared both and did not left the sources.
[/quote]

Given a choice between the newer version or the earlier version, at this moment I have go with the earlier version.  I want USB writer capability.

Can Froloff's driver be disassembled to possibly see what he added or changed?

Dave Yeo

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 09:34:25 pm »
ArcaOS installs cdrecord in @UNIXROOT\usr\bin and running cdrecord --help will output all the commands.
It is
Quote
Cdrecord-ProDVD-ProBD 3.01 (i386-pc-os2-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2015 Joerg Schilling

Cdrecord is/was officially supported by Joerg, at least with building with old toolchain and EMX. Note that Joerg started selling DVD support at one point and changed the license. The Linux folks forked the last GPL version.
I think OS2AHCI supports a SCSI emulation layer and works with AHCI connected drives.

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 10:38:36 pm »

Tried RSJ Writer. but it did not work.  It was then I realized that this program probably only works with CDR drives and not DVD writers.


RSJ runs fine with USB DVD writers. It does not run well if DVD-Toys is installed. I don't know why. There are some interesting theories put forward in this thread. The reason newer hardware, that is hardware without a built-in DVD, needs RSJ is that USB support is broken in DVD toys. This support could be included in ArcaOS, but it is not.

The need for DVD support just got a lot less compelling now that ArcaOS can boot from USB stick.
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Valery Sedletski

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 10:42:39 pm »
2David Graser:

Quote
Given a choice between the newer version or the earlier version, at this moment I have go with the earlier version.  I want USB writer capability.

USB writers work with Froloff's cdrecord and OS2CDROM.DMD 10.163 on my machine. Did not tried CD/DVD Toys with it, though. I use CDRECORD directly from command line.

Quote
Can Froloff's driver be disassembled to possibly see what he added or changed?

I don't know. If someone has time and skills -- maybe.

2 Dave Yeo:

Quote
Cdrecord-ProDVD-ProBD 3.01 (i386-pc-os2-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2015 Joerg Schilling

Where did you took 3.01? Is this available from ArcaNoae repositories only? Access to non-arca users is closed?

Dave Yeo

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Re: Limitation on using an USB DVD and CD writer under ArcaOS
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2018, 11:49:13 pm »
2 Dave Yeo:

Quote
Cdrecord-ProDVD-ProBD 3.01 (i386-pc-os2-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2015 Joerg Schilling

Where did you took 3.01? Is this available from ArcaNoae repositories only? Access to non-arca users is closed?

It is on the ISO, here, J:\CID\SERVER\RPM\LOCALREP\cdrtools-3.01.1-1.oc00.i386.rpm on a recent beta version.