Author Topic: ES/2, the open source OS/2  (Read 3937 times)

RickCHodgin

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2018, 04:29:13 pm »
Anyway... I'd be happy to see such a project, but as a developer I can somewhat guess the ammount of work that is necessary to come to that point of functionality that we have today in OS/2.

What kind of development do you do?

Martin Iturbide

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2018, 05:01:07 pm »
Hi

Why do I always create such big replies when I talk about this subject?, it annoys me, but here it goes.

I think (personal opinion) it will be interesting to put efforts on cloning an open source OS/2, see if it can produce something useful and try to grow from that side. I'm sure that the first version of the Linux kernel used to be very unreliable and needed a lot of work, with time it evolved. But if Linus and other developers would said at that time that is was too much work to have an open source unix kernel clone, there will be no Linux today. We need to start with something that may suck, but that will have the chance to evolve with time (that's why open source is important).

I see open source as a way to reduce risk and dependency of a single company or developer. With the legal permission that gives the open source licensing to create derivative works, it allows the software to shift from one developer/company to another if it is necessary, that reduces the risk to be left "High and Dry", like IBM, Serenity and Mensys did with us. 

Open source does not mean "free of charge" or "people working for free" it is a licensing and development methodology. The question should not be if it is open source or not, open source already won a lot of space and a lot of close software uses open source components as base. What ee should be questioning is giving money and efforts to produce more new close source software under this platform.

The discussion has been summarized to "what it is more important?". To have better hardware support and the drivers that we are missing, which in a few years we will miss a different set of drivers, or to have a long term strategy when we can assure that the platform will endure in the future.

For the moment Arca Noae is following the "short term driver strategy", which is good because you can not eat more than you can chew. Creating a new OS/2 distro and selling it is a long/complex project and they almost have reached what eComStation offers in just one year. But I don't see nothing wrong letting the community (or any other developer) to have their own long term strategy for the platform until Arca Noae gets one.

My idea (which I don't have yet the skills or resources to accomplish) is cloning the OS/2 components little by little, since the IBM's ownership of the binaries is a limitation that does not allows us to grow the user/developer base. Sure, there are more factors, but being stuck with that compared to other OSes is a big limitation.

Quote
That's another reason, why I suggested to rather invest time and efforts into already existing projects. "where everybody else is", to take on the big task to bring OS/2 onto new computers, while still keeping backward compatibility for older machines..

I also disagree, if we are going to jump into  "where everybody else is" projects, everybody here will switch to Linux at the once :)

Let's support Arca Noae, but let also people to experiment and try to create new paths, it is their own time after all.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2018, 05:03:33 pm »
Hi Rick

I think it will be more interesting to show some accomplishment based on your ideas. The first release does not has to be perfect, but you need to show that something real is coming as a result. That may results on more people endorsing your project.

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Martin Iturbide
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... just share the dream.

RickCHodgin

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2018, 05:18:30 pm »
Hi Rick

I think it will be more interesting to show some accomplishment based on your ideas. The first release does not has to be perfect, but you need to show that something real is coming as a result. That may results on more people endorsing your project.

I'm not working on writing code for ES/2 yet.  I'm working on getting the design hammered out, and that's being done secondary to all my other projects.  I go to bed each night with an "Advanced OS/2 Programming" book by my pillow.  I read about OS/2 when I can't sleep.  I am going to write tools to scan the complete OS/2 4.52 and determine the entire relationship of all functions and APIs system-wide on a native install.  I am then going to use that to present my modified API to the world.

It won't be until probably Christmas 2019 or after until I devote full-time to this project.  I am also trying to work on something that will allow me to work on it full-time, but I have no guarantees those efforts will bear any fruit.  I just know I cannot be devoting 50+ hours per week to a job unrelated to my personal interests.  I have to devote many or all of those 50 hours per week to my personal interests if I intend to see any real progress.

In time, Martin.  Patience.  I've been here since 2016 on this project, and met with much resistance pretty much at all points for the reasons previously known ... but I have not diminished one ounce in my desire to complete these projects.  In fact, they've increased.

If it is willed to be so, I think you're going to see what one man with a true desire to work very hard to accomplish his goals can achieve.  And I think that will be inspiring to others to come on board to help, and if not, then I will seek out people within my own community (the one I cannot speak about) and teach people what they need to know to help out.

David Graser

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2018, 07:31:57 pm »
Rick

Could your scan tools be of benefit to those programmers that are presently modifying and fixing bugs in the of ArcaOS when completed?  If so, this could greatly benefit the community until you have progressed further along on your kernel and operating system.

RickCHodgin

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2018, 07:35:38 pm »
Rick

Could your scan tools be of benefit to those programmers that are presently modifying and fixing bugs in the of ArcaOS when completed?  If so, this could greatly benefit the community until you have progressed further along on your kernel and operating system.

Probably.  Everything I develop / release toward ES/1 and ES/2 will be open source and anyone can use them / adapt them as needed.

You can keep track of my work here on this Git server.  I'll put all the generic tools in a UTILS\ folder there at that level.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 07:37:17 pm by Rick C. Hodgin »

Mathias

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2018, 09:34:34 pm »
Martin, obviously I meant ArcaOS with ¨where everybody else is¨. ; )

Rick, I am working for a company that builds software to optimise railway inspection and maintenance processes.

Well I wish you all the best for your project, Rick. I can see the benefits, and will be happy to try things out as soon as there is something to see.

RickCHodgin

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2018, 09:39:38 pm »
Rick, I am working for a company that builds software to optimise railway inspection and maintenance processes.

I mean is it C/C++?  Would you be able to do code reviews?  Or contribute source code?

Mathias

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2018, 09:52:02 pm »
Sure. But I have not yet done OS/2 development. I`d love to be of more use to the OS/2 community, but for now I`m translating ArcaOS into DE part by part.
If the day would have 48 hours I might be able to do more most likely.. ; )

RickCHodgin

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2018, 09:56:06 pm »
Sure.  But I have not yet done OS/2 development.... If the day would have 48 hours I might be able to do more most likely.. ; )

It will be a year from now until I'm ready to start, but if you have time to review things I would appreciate the help.  You will also learn a lot about OS/2 from looking over "working" code that is part of the design, and not just use of that code in an existing blind kernel + DLLs where we don't have source code.

Mathias

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2018, 10:04:55 pm »
Time is indeed the critical part here. Of course I`d love to learn more and understand better how everything works and what could be changed, etc.
Thing is though, work + family already kills almost all of my time. The rest is used for translations and sleep.
But please DO contact me, when you are ready to start. : )

RickCHodgin

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2018, 09:24:46 pm »
In the next several months I'm going to present a full API outlining the functions I believe should be kept, which kernel modules or DLLs they belong to, along with the functions that are able to be deleted with the reason(s) why.

There really is a lot of unnecessary baggage tied up in the API.  A much cleaner / smaller / more elegant API can be created, one which will allow us to develop powerful applications for everyone to use, and without losing any functionality, and in some cases gaining some new functionality more modern OSes have brought into existence.

I plan to begin this research with a focused effort over Christmas break, and into Jan/Feb 2019.  I hope to release the API for examination and scrutiny / debate in March, 2019.

RickCHodgin

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2018, 03:38:41 pm »
Does anybody know of a full or partial API for all core OS/2 files in some kind of text form that can be parsed?

RickCHodgin

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Re: ES/2, the open source OS/2
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2018, 04:31:33 pm »
Does anybody know of a full or partial API for all core OS/2 files in some kind of text form that can be parsed?

I find bits and pieces here and there.  Nothing that is comprehensive.  Nothing with easily parsed text descriptions or parameter lists with definitions, etc.