Author Topic: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine  (Read 8563 times)

Dave Yeo

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2019, 07:49:17 pm »
It was pointed out to me that fslib will work most of the time if SDDHELP.SYS is loaded and it has access to x:\os\2\drivers\snap\graphics.bpd (x: being the boot drive). Testing, my example above still fails but other games successfully use full screen.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2019, 10:04:38 pm »
Hi

I have this cases:
- Amoebax
- Amphetamine

If I use the newer "SDL-1.2.15-20160303.zip" those games will not run. I need to use and older SDL12.DLL and FSLIB.DLL.
Can someone else test those and tell me if it a problem with my configuration/machine, or those games really do not work with the latest "SDL-1.2.15-20160303.zip" port.

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Martin Iturbide
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Dave Yeo

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2019, 10:46:35 pm »
Amphetamine seems to run fine with sdl12.dll │  278457│03/03/16│ 3:03p here.
Amoebax does seem to need its own SDL and FSLIB files and is a prime candidate to be rebuilt. Wish porters would stick to the license and include source, patches or at least a note how it was built if no source changes.
I seem to remember subtle problems (bugs) occasionally when using different versions of SDL as well.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 10:51:45 pm by Dave Yeo »

André Heldoorn

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2019, 02:57:20 am »
Can someone else test those and tell me if it a problem with my configuration/machine, or those games really do not work with the latest "SDL-1.2.15-20160303.zip" port.
Contact the author? It's not unlikely that he's willing to use latest SDL DLLs or to allow for upgrades.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2019, 03:24:57 pm »
Thanks Dave.

I'm double checking what is happening with "Amphetamine". In my VM it does not wants to run with the latest SDL, but on the Thinkpad L420 it do runs. I need to check what can be producing that conflict on the VM. I even removed any SDL and sdl provided by the netlabs rpm to don't have confusion.

Amoebax requires the old SDL and FSLIB in my both enviroments.
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Pete

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2019, 07:07:13 am »
Hi Martin

Are you also considering old DOS games that have been ported to OS/2? - There cannot be many older than the game called Digger originally created by Windmill Software in 1983  ;-)

Digger for OS/2 is here http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/games/action/digger-20140703.zip

The Digger website is here http://www.digger.org/ where you can also download some extras including some addon game levels which work fine with the OS/2 port and a DOS based level editor see http://www.digger.org/download.html


Have fun ;-)

Pete

Mathias

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2019, 10:00:40 pm »
Martin, I also remember Lewis speaking about updated sound drivers, that helps with compatibility in DOS and WinOS/2 mode.
When seeing this thread, I get the feeling that it`s getting all too technical. Imagine some ¨user¨ who just sets up his ArcaOS machine in the hope to play his good old DOS/Win3.11/OS2 games... but aslong it is THAT complicated to get each game to work (each game might need its very own solution to get sound working..) - You might get it to work with the help of the OS/2 community (which is AWESOME btw!!), but for a mere user this would be a hopeless process. :o

I know time is pushing (Retro gaming event in May is pushing closer), but we might not yet be able to present ArcaOS as a retro gaming platform, as long as the updated drivers/sound framework aren`t available yet.

Question is though, what to do... when exactly will this updated sound driver/framework be available? - We do not know yet.
All *I* know is that, Lewis said he also recognised retro gamers as a potential market for ArcaOS, and UniAud replacement/upgrade is planned for the future.

We could...
- either build up a database for each... DOS, Win3.11, OS/2 native games that run NOW with (almost) no efforts (ruling out games, that are too complicated getting them to run properly (and with sound))
- or we could wait for that new sound driver/sound framework that is said to solve exactly these problems and build up the game database by then. (That database might need an update anyway when this sound upgrade comes)

Dave Yeo

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2019, 11:25:39 pm »
The problem Arca Noae has is resources. I'm guessing but they seem to only have perhaps half a dozen developers at most employed or co-owners with a lot on their plate.
USB-C, WiFi, graphics support, perhaps extending SNAP, sound driver that works on modern hardware, UEFI boot support, better support for large HDs to name a few. Then there is work on the installer including extending it, fixing things that need fixing and so on.
I'd guess it'll be a while before they create a DOS virtual SoundBlaster driver or such. If we're lucky, someone else might write one. In principle is seems basic but then you get into subtleties such as sharing the sound device.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2019, 03:41:19 pm »
Hi

Question is though, what to do... when exactly will this updated sound driver/framework be available? - We do not know yet.
All *I* know is that, Lewis said he also recognised retro gamers as a potential market for ArcaOS, and UniAud replacement/upgrade is planned for the future.

I can not answer that since I don't work in Arca Noae, I just know what I had investigated:
1) Arca Noae website lists that they are working on the Win-OS/2 and DOS sound driver compatibility called DTA.
2) I contacted the author of DTA and told me that he gave all rights to Arca Noae.
3) Lewis told on a chat room that he had someone learning/working DTA.

So, I think this are good news for retro-gaming on ArcaOS, but I don't know the time frame for it.

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Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2019, 03:51:45 pm »
Hi

When seeing this thread, I get the feeling that it`s getting all too technical. Imagine some ¨user¨ who just sets up his ArcaOS machine in the hope to play his good old DOS/Win3.11/OS2 games... but aslong it is THAT complicated to get each game to work (each game might need its very own solution to get sound working..)

Your concern is very good and valid.  I'm just starting with the native games on OS/2 and I'm getting some technical complications about libraries and how to make some games work.  But it is good to discuss this, no matter how technical it can be, so we can create a path to make it easier to other users.

Maybe on the future we can do/get somethings like:
1) Include the latest SDL libraries on the rpm repository
2) Including DTA (once it gets updated) on the ArcaOS
3) Trying to package some games in an easy way to get installed for users (like rpm).
4) Recompiling some ported games directing to newer libraries.

Remember that right now we are on a "ping-pong" stage to find the issues and discuss the best way to solve it. I hope to later document the lessons learned from this forum discussion and try to summarize the knowledge.

So, it is still too technical, but it has to be discussed in this terms so we can work a solution to make it easy.

I'm finishing my tests with some native games, and I will move on to DOS, which I think it will be more interesting. But without DTA for DOS (to support audio with Uniaud) , I think I will start with DOSBox. (Maybe on a different thread).

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Martin Iturbide
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Neil Waldhauer

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2019, 05:00:46 pm »
I'm not a gamer at all, but I was interested in what people are doing outside the OS/2 community. Here is a DOS gaming site that I thought could be pretty helpful to us.

https://www.dosgamesarchive.com/downloads/

It lists the DOS games freely available on the Internet ranked by popularity.
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Dave Yeo

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2019, 06:07:01 pm »
The other thing we're missing is joystick support, which went away about the same time as DOS sound support. Haven't seen a joystick port in ages as they're all USB now and I believe there are 2 standards, regular support and Xbox type.
A lot of these games, both OS/2 (SDL) and DOS are a lot better with a joystick. Keyboard or mouse just doesn't work the same.

Mathias

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2019, 08:49:58 pm »
Very true, time and ressources is THE magic thing in softare development. Our company has the same problems: We simply need to find more developers to get stuff done and keep the release plan on par with reality more easily.. ; )

Martin, please don`t get me wrong, very very much appreciated!! : ))
I need to find more time also to test more myself also and bring in some results as well, regarding the gaming topic!
Also testing some jopads and sticks. (Btw.. I suppose the xbox ones might not work out of the box, but the regular USB pads and sticks basing on regular axes could be easier to get them working?!)

Martin Iturbide

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2019, 10:46:22 pm »
Hi Mathias.

Also testing some jopads and sticks. (Btw.. I suppose the xbox ones might not work out of the box, but the regular USB pads and sticks basing on regular axes could be easier to get them working?!)

As far as I know only some "game port" joysticks used to work on OS/2. I haven't get any report of an USB joystick working under OS/2, but if I'm wrong about it please let me know.

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Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: ArcaOS - Retro Gaming Machine
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2019, 11:13:15 pm »
Hi

I still don't have time to test DOS games, but we have like 4224 games to test  ;D ;D

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Martin Iturbide
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