Author Topic: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk  (Read 1451 times)

guzzi

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Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« on: February 26, 2019, 02:17:46 am »
Yes, I know, that doesn't work... I didn't know the disk was gpt when I tried to install ArcaOS. Once I realised my mistake, I made images of the system and windows partitions, converted the disk to MBR using DFSee, writing the images to a second NTFS formatted gpt diskin the machine, booted from a win 7 cd and inserted a USB stick with DFSee to restore the partitions (can't boot the pc from the hard disk anymore of course).
Lesson 1, never assume anything but check first. Can't run DFSee when booted from a win cd(. So, now I have partition images on an NTFS disk, one very large, and can't restore them under win, can't read them booted from the ArcaOS stick which -will- run DFSee.
Ok, I have a large USB disk, so, new plan, format it NTFS (takes half an an ice-age), install NTFS plugin with netdrive on other pc, copy the files over, reformat the USB disk to JFS, copy back and do the restore booted from ArcaOS stick.
And so I find out the poet Burns was right, the best laid plans.... Netdrive throws an error 3 when trying to mount the NTFS drive. Install NTFS003 package from Hobbes. Also doesn't work, tells me the MFT is not where it expects it to be.
What Now? DFSee comes to the rescue, select the NTFS drive, file recovery to a JFS drive. In a while I will be able to finally restore the images. I hope....
Of course it has taken me more time by now then even a reinstall of Win7 with the endless downloading and rebooting to get all the fixes. But I'm pigheaded and won't give up that easily.

David Graser

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2019, 03:39:31 am »
I believe the eComstation team had a NTFS driver that was read only.  It was not readily available.  It might have been that one had to subscribe to the subscription service.  I myself never had it even though it would be nice to have.

Dave Yeo

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2019, 05:03:25 am »
Seems to me that using a Linux live CD (or USB stick perhaps including the DFSee one) and using DFSee from there would be another solution.

guzzi

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 10:58:10 am »
Seems to me that using a Linux live CD (or USB stick perhaps including the DFSee one) and using DFSee from there would be another solution.

Tried that. The PC wouldn't boot from the Puppy Linux stick. Just prompted me to insert a valid boot device.

ivan

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2019, 12:36:59 pm »
Tried that. The PC wouldn't boot from the Puppy Linux stick. Just prompted me to insert a valid boot device.

Is the bios set to boot from USB?  Even the MS approved UEFI requires you to select boot device order.  You may also need to go through the UEFI advanced settings and turn off secure boot and set to Legacy BIOS mode.

Doug Bissett

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2019, 05:44:25 pm »
I have started with win 10 on a GPT disk, in my Lenovo ThinkPad L530, and ended up with a usable win 10, with ArcaOS 5.0.3 installed (any version of ArcaOS should be okay, once you get the disk converted, but later versions are better).

First, READ every word in all of the PDFs, and TXT files, in the root of the ArcaOS ISO. You may need to burn a DVD to be able to do that, although you may be able to mount the ISO in some operating systems.

You must be sure that the system has BIOS support for what they call CSM, and it must be enabled. In the L530, it is in the BIOS settings under STARTUP. I have it set for BOTH, with Legacy first. After doing that, it should still work with a GPT disk installed. Apparently, not all new systems have CSM support. If not, stop here, and wait for the support to be done for ArcaOS (not even started, yet, AFAIK).

You need a full backup, that has been proven to actually restore properly (I will talk windows, but every other OS must do the same). The only backup program, that I know of, that actually works with windows, is Acronis. If you have a Seagate, Maxtor, or Samsung, disk in the machine, or attached by a USB adapter, you can use the free (limited) version called Seagate Discwizard (google it). I haven't checked lately, but Western Digital also had a free version of Acronis, that only works when a WD disk is present. This backup must work on the file system level, you cannot use the DFSEE disk image feature, because it will put the data back exactly as it was backed up, and that isn't what you want. I am not sure what Acronis does at restore time, but it fixes windows so that it will boot. NOTE: that you may need the smaller windows boot partition, if you use something like security software. For a simple windows install, you only need the (windows) C: drive. Do NOT restore the boot records.

Next, boot the ArcaOS installer from a USB stick, or from a burned DVD. Depending on the system, this may be difficult. Each one that I have, does it in a different way. The L530 gives you about 1/2 second to press enter to interrupt the boot sequence. Once you get there, one of the options is to press F12 to get the boot device list. Select the ArcaOS USB stick (you can press F12, to get to the boot list, without going to the first menu).  Note, that the boot device list may have two entries for the stick (or DVD), one prefaced by UEFI, and one not, You need to use the one that is not. Once you get the ArcaOS installer booted, use the System Management-> Disk-> Disk Utility program to wipe the disk (effectively removing everything that is on the disk). Ignore any errors, and select the Disk-> Wipe disk information-> All... option. REBOOT to the ArcaOS installer (again, don't use the UEFI one, if it exists). Run the Disk utility again, and follow the instructions to add LVM information, REBOOT, and use System Management-> Disk-> Manage Volumes (Graphical) to build ALL of the desired partitions (including whatever you need for other operating systems). AND add the Air Boot boot manager (the old Boot Manager can be used, IF, and only IF, Air Boot has some sort of problem that can't be resolved).

Do not, ever, let any other partitioning tool do anything, or it will likely cause problems. The Disk Utility program is a special version of DFSEE, that is specifically designed to do partitioning correctly. DFSEE itself, can do it correctly, but only when it is running under OS/2.

Now, you can restore windows, and it should work (assuming you have a good backup to restore).

Install ArcaOS, and it should work.

Hopefully, I didn't leave something out. Ask questions if something doesn't seem to be right.

ivan

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2019, 06:11:25 pm »
Hi Doug,

I don't think you left anything out but I do have one observation regarding Air Boot.

I have two computers with Ryzen 3 2200G with built in Radeon Vega Graphics that dual boot ArcaOS and Win 7.  To actually boot ArcaOS I have to use a stop watch because I have never managed to get Air Boot to appear on any of my Samsung 24" 1920 x1200 monitors.  All the monitors show is a moving warning that the video is not in the preferred range - hitting enter at set times will bring up the Arca screen.  Win 7 also requires hitting the up arrow at the correct time bit the boot continues without doing anything else.

Boot manager has no problems with those monitors.

Doug Bissett

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2019, 06:47:13 pm »
Quote
I have two computers with Ryzen 3 2200G with built in Radeon Vega Graphics that dual boot ArcaOS and Win 7.  To actually boot ArcaOS I have to use a stop watch because I have never managed to get Air Boot to appear on any of my Samsung 24" 1920 x1200 monitors.  All the monitors show is a moving warning that the video is not in the preferred range - hitting enter at set times will bring up the Arca screen.  Win 7 also requires hitting the up arrow at the correct time bit the boot continues without doing anything else.

Have you reported the problem to the Arca Noae Mantis bug tracker? Be sure to read about how to submit a problem report, with the proper supporting documentation.

AFAIK, Air Boot uses BIOS screen support (at 640x480 pixels, I think), so if you can read the BIOS progress information, you should be able to see what Air Boot puts on the screen. You might try using TAB to go back to the previous screen, when the Air Boot menu should be displayed. It might tell you something.

Remy

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 11:31:33 am »
For your information.
ArcaOS (os/2) needs mbr disk.
GPT disk has no mbr and if windows was installed on GPT and this one got mbr records, windows no more works.
There is a way to get windows GPT partition back.
Use https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/T%C3%A9l%C3%A9charger_TestDisk
It allow to restore GPT disk partitions

Pete

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2019, 03:57:44 pm »
Hi ivan

Probably a silly question but...

Have you tried turning monitors off and then back on? - I sometimes see a similar problem where for whatever reason my monitor displays a "video out of range" message and powering monitor off and then on rectifies the problem.


Regards

Pete

ivan

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 04:29:37 pm »
Hi Pete,

Tried that and when I eventually get a desktop it is at 640 x 380 resolution no matter what it was previously which means setting the resolution to 1920 x 1200 and rebooting (this is using the Panorama video driver.

I have also tried the SNAP driver with no change.

I am getting to the point of considering setting up a mini-itx box (ASRock AM1H-ITX) just for win7 and using a KVM switch to switch keyboard, monitor ans trackball then wiping win7 from the effected boxes (gets back the 700GB on the disks that could be put to better use).

Pete

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2019, 07:37:19 pm »
Hi ivan

The choice of video driver does not matter as it is not loaded until during boot.

I have no idea how airboot is coded but if it is not displaying onscreen then I would guess the system is not presenting the video signal in a way that airboot can interpret.

Not a problem I have bumped into... I sometimes see a video out of range message when the Desktop loads which is "cured" by powering monitor off then on.

I get the impression you are using the graphics integrated into the cpu and wonder if the cause of the problem lies in that direction.

Should be worth a bug report anyway.


Regards

Pete

Doug Bissett

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2019, 08:58:30 pm »
Quote
The choice of video driver does not matter as it is not loaded until during boot.

This is absolutely true. At the time that Air Boot does it's thing, no operating system is active. It is all done by BIOS.

Quote
I have no idea how airboot is coded but if it is not displaying onscreen then I would guess the system is not presenting the video signal in a way that airboot can interpret.

Air Boot does not interpret what the video signal does. The monitor does that. Somehow, it seems that the BIOS is presenting a video signal that the monitor doesn't understand. Since every monitor, every BIOS, and every video adapter is expected to work in text mode, at 25 lines, with 80 characters per line, video, it should not do what it is doing. Air Boot has nothing to do with that either. All it does is put data in the video buffer, in the expected way. If the monitor doesn't display that, there is some device that isn't doing the job properly.

To analyze it, first try a different monitor (different brand, size, etc.) to see if the problem lies there.

See if you can determine what the monitor is actually "seeing". The on screen display should tell you that.

I suggested, above, trying TAB when Air Boot should display. That will take you back to the last BIOS screen. Does that display properly? It should have some Air Boot information, and a summary of the disks. If that doesn't display, see what the monitor is "seeing".

Is BIOS set to display a fancy picture, or does it list the steps that it takes in text? Try setting it to display the BIOS progress, in text, and not a fancy picture. That should also display in 25 lines, at 80 characters per line.

My initial guess is that the BIOS is leaving the video system in some sort of graphics video mode, after displaying a fancy picture. If that is the case, perhaps Air Boot needs to reset the video system, before trying to use it. I don't know how that could be done with minimal code (they have already dropped some unimportant features of Air Boot, to free up enough space to make important things work), but it won't even be attempted, if there is no problem report. It will help, if you answer the questions.

ivan

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2019, 02:18:59 pm »
Hi Doug,

I have submitted a report after checking with Lewis to see if he thought I should.

You might be on the right track regarding monitor resolution.  My old no name 1280 x 1024 monitor works as it should (I used that to set up the system in the first place).  I just borrowed a 1920 x 1080 monitor and it also works yet the Dell UltraSharp 24" monitor, that I also borrowed, running at 1920 x 1200 shows the same symptoms.

The annoying thing is that when I do get to the desktop it works extremely well which is good for my 80 year old eyes.

Rich Walsh

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Re: Installing ArcaOS on a GPT formatted disk
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2019, 05:35:55 pm »
The impression that I (and others) have is that Boot Manager shows up while AirBoot doesn't because BM does an explicit video mode switch while AB doesn't. Therefore, you need something to force that mode switch. So, try this:

Try booting with your ArcaOS install DVD in your optical drive. Does its menu (i.e. "Boot from hard drive"/"Install ArcaOS") show up? If so, select "Boot from hard drive". My _guess_ is that AirBoot will now be visible.