Author Topic: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware  (Read 1571 times)

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 369
  • -Receive: 73
  • Posts: 2281
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« on: March 12, 2019, 06:39:58 pm »
About: [Arca Noae] Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware

Hi

Very good news. It is great to see finally (referring to the old Mensys/XEU days) some progress for the present of the platform. Even that UEFI support is still on very early stage, it is good to see that something has started, I'm looking forward to test that on the future.

I'm on the "Arca Noae Test" mailing list and even that I don't contribute as much as I would like to, I really see that things are moving to release Arca Noae 5.0.4 and the progress for the localization releases for ArcaOS 5.1. There is a lot of details on each update and a lot of movement there.

As you can see, today I'm very optimistic about the platform. Remember that ArcaOS 5.0.0 was released on May 15, 2017, and it had eclipsed any eComStation functionality in only one year. I really hope that after the ArcaOS 5.1 launch with local languages support, Arca Noae can focus more on the present of the platform (drivers, drivers, drivers) and also start thinking on the long term future (component replacement, API improvement, WPS improvements, growing the user base and more bold things).

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 934
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 07:56:24 pm »
I agree Martin, it is good to see some improvements but I do wish they would do something about the USB3.0 and 3.1 problem.  It is becoming harder to find PCIe based USB2 add in cards that don't use a xHCI based chip working in USB2 mode.  It makes it extremely difficult to use Ryzen based motherboards (no usb keyboards, mouse, trackball etc.).

Dennis Smith

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 7
  • -Receive: 2
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 08:37:47 pm »
This is a big feat considering most of the source code is either lost by IBM or somewhere in Russia.  It must have taken a lot of reverse engineering of low level code to make it happen.

Andreas Schnellbacher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 23
  • Posts: 416
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2019, 08:58:28 pm »
It is great to see finally (referring to the old Mensys/XEU days) some progress for the present of the platform.
The next feature regarding the survival of OS/2 will probably be a driver for USB 3.

Remember that ArcaOS 5.0.0 was released on May 15, 2017, and it had eclipsed any eComStation functionality in only one year.
BTW: That's not entirely true. ArcaOS bases on all the development that was made prior for eCS 2.2 beta 2 and thereafter (by almost the same people, now within a new environment). There were several years we saw eCS dying before the release of ArcaOS 5.0.0.

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 369
  • -Receive: 73
  • Posts: 2281
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 11:27:35 pm »
Hi

I'm not sure if I can talk about what is going on inside the AN test mailing list in detail, I don't want to get kicked out. I just can say that I remain optimist about USB 3 also.

Regards
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 11:36:19 pm by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Dariusz Piatkowski

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 13
  • -Receive: 9
  • Posts: 538
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2019, 01:27:20 am »
I second Martin's comments and concur that it is exciting to see the level of concerted effort to keep things not just alive, but improving on our platform.

At the same time I do not want to overlook the contributions that have been made over the years by other projects & contributors, without them I am not sure that AN could have ever been "born".

Keeping my fingers crossed, and contributing here and there with some testing, feedback and monetary contributions. I do genuinely wish there was an easier way for inviduals like myself to contribute more meaningfully though.

Doug Bissett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 45
  • Posts: 1176
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2019, 07:09:06 am »
I am confident that USB 3 will appear, (to quote Lewis) "soonish". ("Soonish" being a technical term for "someday"  ;D)

The biggest problem is that the guy who is doing it, also has a dozen (perhaps more) other "important" projects under development, and they still haven't found a way to work 24 hours a day, while remaining productive (or even sane) over the long term.

It is coming, but it all takes time to get it right.

Lars

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 40
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2019, 09:03:43 am »
The nail in the coffin for OS/2 will neither be UEFI nor USB 3.
It will be the lack of an internet browser.

Roderick Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 11
  • Posts: 298
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2019, 12:15:05 pm »
The nail in the coffin for OS/2 will neither be UEFI nor USB 3.
It will be the lack of an internet browser.

That is what the OS/2 community is trying to resolve by porting the latest QT to OS/2. That way we can port Chromium to OS/2. The fact the QT port is done for 70% brings that within a realistic reach!

Roderick

Sigurd Fastenrath

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 16
  • -Receive: 46
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2019, 01:01:21 pm »
The reason why I almost left the plattform behind me in personal is that I realize during the last months this:

There are three parties left:

1.) ArcaNoae: making the OS and drivers, pushing things forward, has to make/earn money. Delivering excellent software. On the other hand (as a result of "the money"): focussed on industrial clients and their needs. Keeping things "closed". Lower priority for software vendors, lowest priority is the community. Taking not part in Forums where the community is (for various reasons, but I never understood the "No Time" Reason, as it may take only a few minutes a day or even once a week to monitor what is happening there).

2.) Bitwise Works, other free developers: trying to keep the software alive (internet browser, office, ...), user oriented, benefits to both, Arca Noae and the community

3.) The community, or what is left of it. Has lowest priority for ArcaNoae as the money is to be earned in the industrial sector.

That is just my personal statement and point of view. And it is not complaining, even if it might sound like this. Sometimes I wish I could express myself here in my mothertongue, Deutsch, but for obvious reasons that would make not much sense, even though I could "besser schreiben und ausdrücken, was ich wirklich meine" and therefore avoid misunderstanding.

Yes, I know, that is nothing new for the almost all of you, and it does not matter at all. Even if there will be UEFI, NVMe support, this all will benefit industrial clients and the community users or privat users as well, but everything else wich would benefit the privat users more than industrial clients is not in sight. WLAN i.e. Better Sound.

So ArcaNoae will for sure move on, and will bring fantastic new functions to OS/2, but it will stay focused on industrial clients, and those usually do not need WLAN or Sound or...

So, there is no reason for me other than monitoring the development. Expecting this or that feature or driver in the near future is just - dreaming. And I invested already to much money in that dreaming. It was time to wake up.

I made excellent expierences with OS/2 (from Warp 3 on) inside VMWARE PRO, only the missing - or better not working - sound support is a showstopper right now. But I may get a solution for this.

I am looking forward to the OS/2 User meeting in Cologne in November together with Thomas Müller. Would be nice to see a German Version of ArcaNoae 5.1 then though. All the best.



David Graser

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 42
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2019, 03:52:38 pm »
I remember seeing this years ago.  This was the wish list back in 2004. It is interesting to see what was desired back then.

http://os2news.warpstock.org/OS2Wishlist.html


Doug Bissett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1
  • -Receive: 45
  • Posts: 1176
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2019, 08:20:42 pm »
Quote
I never understood the "No Time" Reason, as it may take only a few minutes a day or even once a week to monitor what is happening there).

No, it takes much more time than that. It also takes a LOT of time to try to explain to those who don't want to know, why it all takes so long, and fend off the swords (not to mention debunk the FUD, which helps nobody). They just don't need the hassles, and they can spend their time in more productive ways (including sleeping). Those of us who are on the test team do keep them informed, when there is something worth passing on. In fact, they seem to be ahead of most of the discussion here. That is one of the reasons why they do brief news reports.

Quote
Has lowest priority for ArcaNoae as the money is to be earned in the industrial sector.

Not entirely true, but the sales contract does demand that they support the contract terms. We all need whatever the industrial sector needs, so there is a lot of overlap. They pay for the service, so they expect to get the service. Any user can buy the "full service" version of ArcaOS, but everybody seems to want it all for free. It ain't going to happen (IBM still wants their pound of flesh, and somebody needs to support those who are doing the work). Personally, I think that Arca Noae has struck a pretty good balance, and they are managing the whole project very well. Certainly it could be better, but it could also be a whole lot worse.

ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 2
  • -Receive: 33
  • Posts: 934
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2019, 09:06:54 pm »
No matter what anyone says, the use of OS/2/ArcaOS is going to end-up on the ability to actually install it on modern hardware and that includes AMD processors because of the people in industry having been bitten by the Intel meltdown and spectre CPU bugs.

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 369
  • -Receive: 73
  • Posts: 2281
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2019, 11:16:37 pm »
Ohh, the eternal discussion... Enterprise or End Consumer.  The trick here is how do you keep the balls on the air to support both and trying to align the outcome, so when you do something for one, it will also benefit the other.

Sadly OS/2 is not free (as in beer and as in freedom). Money, enterprise agreements, IBM tax, customer and paid employee are required on this case. I don't think that Arca Noae is not hearing the community and only focusing on the industrial customers. I think that they have a lot of work to produce ArcaOS 5.1 and the local translations, compared to the money flow they may be getting. I don't think that Arca Noae's stockholders are getting rich with this business, like some communist may think.

Quote
Personally, I think that Arca Noae has struck a pretty good balance, and they are managing the whole project very well. Certainly it could be better, but it could also be a whole lot worse.

I agree with Doug's statement and I also have some criticism for Arca Noae and the platform, but if I look back in time and remember that ArcaOS 5.0.0 was just released on May 15, 2017, I noticed that it is not "a lot" of time to consolidate completely an operating system (or even a Linux distro). I'm holding my criticism until May 15, 2019  ;D ;D

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Dariusz Piatkowski

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 13
  • -Receive: 9
  • Posts: 538
    • View Profile
Re: Arca Noae progress report: ArcaOS on UEFI-only hardware
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2019, 03:53:27 am »
I think Doug made a couple of excellent points. True, this forum does not get regular updates from the AN folks...however, the information does trickle in through those who participate in the testing activities.

Regarding the commercial over personal use focus by AN team...hmm, I am actually of quite the opposite opinion. To be very frank, it has been nothing but impressive to have multiple reported issues acknowledged and worked on, with resolutions being provided to nearly all of them...and yet here i am, a lowly "individual" right?

Thw weakness I see today is the seemingly very steep hill one needs to climb in order to join the development efforts. I know this may seem a bit like beating a dead horse, but I have tried this on my own and while many folks have pointed me "here and there", the fact remains that nowhere is there a single and CURRENT solution (a full build environment) available that we can pick up, set up, start producing things and stay in-sync with the toolsets and libraries the main parties (BWW and AN) are using.

If that is too hard to overcome we could always focus on converting whatever software is currently out there into RPM packages. This might go a long way towards standardizing the distribution stream and possibly might allow us to avoid some of the "it works here but fails there" type of situations. Standardization in this way would bring consistency.