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Mick Head:

--- Quote from: Doug Bissett on November 14, 2013, 01:51:58 am ---
--- Quote ---Well, it is just as easy, if you simply add a screen (can be a modern TV set, which most people have anyway, but could be any number of other things, that haven't been announced yet), a proper keyboard, and a mouse.
--- End quote ---

That's a point to consider. But still I try envision a corporate workflow where a graphic designer has a tablet and a desk full of peripherals as means to accomplish work. It's hard for me to see what the advantages are against a desktop computer. But who knows, stranger things have happened.
--- End quote ---

Doug Bissett:

--- Quote ---In my opinion it was the wrong decision not to concentrate on selected hardware.
--- End quote ---

That is a two way street. If you choose a hardware configuration, by the time you have it settled, and working, the hardware is no longer available, and nobody wants to buy it anyway, because there is newer stuff available. The only way to make that work, is to do it like Apple does. Go to the manufacturers, and get the very first devices off the production line, test them, and make them work, then buy 200,000 of them at the tail end of the production run (probably a special run, just for Apple). I doubt that Mensys (or anybody else), would be able to sell enough product to do that. Then, you have the problem where selected devices are not available in all countries, so you need to go through the procedure for alternate devices, after you figure out what is available. Of course, notebook computers really don't have replaceable parts, in a lot of cases.

In fact, I think that most OS/2 (eCS) users already choose carefully. Unfortunately, the manufacturers keep changing what is available, and sometimes things don't work out as expected.


--- Quote ---I tried to build an bootable USB stick using Linux, that automatically starts Linux and then OS/2 in a virtual machine.
--- End quote ---

When I first tried Linux Mint, I found out that it will install to a USB stick, so I did so. It works okay, but even USB 3.0 is pretty slow. I did not attempt to use VBox with that setup, but the (same) stick would boot on all of my "modern" machines, and managed to configure all of the devices. I only have one machine with a USB 3.0 adapter, and it worked okay. The rest, with USB 2.0, were painfully slow. After that, I put Linux Mint 15 cinnamon 64 onto my Lenovo ThinkPad L530, which was causing problems for native eCS. All of the devices work, and the speed is quite good. I then put VBox into that, and I have WinXP, eCS 2.1 and eCS 2.2 installed in it. The really surprising thing is that eCS boots about 50% faster in VBox, than it does in the real machine (that by itself causes boot problems). ECS performance is comparable to the real machine, and it seems to work okay, but I haven't used it much. I have not tried to make eCS start automatically at boot, but it should be possible.  The difficult part, so far, has been to figure out Linux, and all of the new rules (not to mention having to enter the mandatory password about every 5th time I try to do something).

This exercise did point out what I said earlier. There is no point in trying to run something like Firefox, or VLC, in VBox, under Linux. Both work better in the native Linux environment (which is running anyway). I have been playing with that configuration, but I am still not convinced that Linux is ready for prime time. Some other distro might be better, but it would take a couple of months, doing nothing else, to check them all out. FWIW, Linux Mint is the first Linux, that I have tried, that sort of works, for me.


--- Quote ---I really believe there are *a lot* of WPS classes that could be replaced/developed by basic to medium-skilled programmers but, as it happens to myself, they just have no time to figure out how to start.
--- End quote ---

That is one of the problems. Programing the WPS is a little different, and there is a learning curve. I would expect that once you figure out the basics, that it is not that difficult, after all, I seem to recall that Ulrich Möller is (was?) a lawyer, not a programer (perhaps tat is the secret). I think that the ultimate example of WPS programing is XWorkPlace (eWorkPlace is a subset of that). XWorkPlace is, of course, (mostly) just an extension of the WPS classes, not a complete replacement (although you CAN just replace an individual class). Perhaps that would be a place to start.

In fact, now that I think of it, XWorkPlace is really a good beginning to Martin's idea. What is a little different is that he seems to want to replace the root classes with something new, rather than just use the object oriented interface to fix, change, or replace the root classes. XWorkPlace could definitely use a bit of tweaking. The most annoying thing is that it shows a file size of 1 byte, for all files that are bigger than 2 GB. I suspect that that is caused by using the REXX DLLs, because REXX has the same problem.

Doug Bissett:

--- Quote ---That's a point to consider. But still I try envision a corporate workflow where a graphic designer has a tablet and a desk full of peripherals as means to accomplish work. It's hard for me to see what the advantages are against a desktop computer. But who knows, stranger things have happened.
--- End quote ---

There isn't a lot of difference between using a tablet, with a bunch of peripherals, and using a desktop, with the same peripherals. The brain box is just a little smaller, physically. It is done a lot now, using a laptop as the brain box. When the price of a desktop exceeds the price of a tablet (or even a cell phone), and they will do the same thing, why would anyone want to use a desktop? That will reduce demand for the desktop even further, the price will go up, and demand will fall again. It won't take long before desktops price themselves out of the market. Somebody may continue to make one, for those who can afford it, and have some need (that I can't even imagine), but they won't be something that the average user will be willing to buy.

Check out: http://www.linuxmint.com/store_mintbox.php. This appears to be a full blown computer. It runs Linux Mint, by default, but the specs look like it should be able to run eCS (although using the DataPort, or HDMI, for the display may prove to be a problem - I have not been able to get eCS to use the dataport on my Lenovo ThinkPad L530, or my Lenovo ThinkPad T510). Worst case, would be to run eCS, in a VBox, under Linux Mint (which seems to work okay in my Lenovo ThinkPad L530).

Andi B.:

--- Quote ---....The brain box is just a little smaller, physically...
--- End quote ---
This is the reason (smaller) why your next sentence -

--- Quote ---...When the price of a desktop exceeds the price of a tablet (or even a cell phone), and they will do the same thing, why would anyone want to use a desktop?....
--- End quote ---
will never come true in foreseeable future. At least when comparing nearly same performance. As physically smaller at same computing power is more expensive. Compare your notbook power with a same priced desktop system. This relation did not and will not change future.

And no computing power will never ever be high enough to satisfy user demands. Except for eCS users maybe. But not for any serious programming, art, cad.... work.

Alex Taylor:
Tablets and smartphones (and other, possibly yet-to-be-commercialized devices) will almost certainly replace desktop computers within the demographic that uses a computer as an appliance: that is, for word processing, web browsing, email/social media, simple home accounting and (up to a point) games.

However, real computers/workstations will remain essential for other groups. People who need to do programming and development, for example.  Any setting where serious computing power and serious amounts of local storage are necessary.

Computers used to be loosely organized into three different levels: servers for back-room processing, workstations for serious work requiring serious hardware, and end-user devices. Since the mid 1980s the end-user segment has evolved from dumb terminals into powerful machines in their own right, and as a result it's gradually converged with the workstation segment to the point where the two haven't really been distinguishable for about the past 15 years or so.

What we will probably see is tablets and smartphones take over the end-user segment, and desktop computers will retreat back exclusively into the workstation segment.

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