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Community Ideas BrainStorm for 2020

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Dave Yeo:
Hi Dariusz, Happy new decade.
For number one, there is some stuff on Netlabs that could be copied/formatted for edm. Porting, RPM usage comes to mind.
What do you mean by a development environment? There's so many depending on what is being developed. One thing that would be nice, if RPM supports it, are meta-packages, so you install the GCC or Unix porting develp meta-package and it pulls in all needed stuff as dependencies.
For number two, seems like a good idea as long as avoiding RPM hell, so RPM's have to be tested and maintained.
For number three, testing is always a good idea. some things are simple and some aren't. For example, the new NSPR and NSS are stuck in limbo as they seem to make the Mozilla apps unstable and the updated NSS breaks some HTTPS sites with old versions like FF 38ESR. Ideally is not just testing but fixing. Silvan seems to be doing most of the work on a volunteer basis and while he has been doing a good job, he only has so much time and energy. Things like the browser just silently vanishing are hard to debug too.

Doug Clark:
I am coming to appreciate the power of RPM more and more. But what we really have are two "standard" installation techniques that don't talk to each other: WarpIN and RPM. WarpIN in many ways is the the friendlier of the two, but its two level database (OS2 INI files) really isn't powerful enough to handle large applications and packages.  With RPM/APM I don't know how to find out where stuff gets installed, and since so much is automatically installed I have found myself installing something with WarpIN that turned out to be already installed via RPM. And as far as I know there is no uninstall in RPM/APM.

The other issue with RPM is how to package the product and where to place the RPM packages so that they can be found. With WarpIN you just create an archive and upload to Hobbes.

Recognizing that I don't know much at all about RPM or its database, or how realistic this is, perhaps for 2020 we get a modified WarpIN that uses the same database RPM uses for storing info about its applications and packages.

Dave Yeo:
RPM does do uninstalls, yum uninstall package or right click in ANPM and choose uninstall. Can also downgrade much the same way. The problem at times is dependencies, try to uninstall something and RPM will also uninstall its dependencies after asking. Generally if something is available as an RPM and Warpin package, it's likely the RPM one is what you want to use.
There's directions on packaging on Netlabs and it is possible to install an RPM file or create your own repository, not for the faint of heart though.
There is ongoing work to also handle Warpin with ANPM, the beta I'm using is capable of it to a degree. The problem is that there are so many assorted Warpin packages that they'll never all be supported and I believe Arca Noae's plan is to have a Warpin repository for subscribers. The actual databases will likely never be merged.

Dariusz Piatkowski:
Hi Martin,

--- Quote from: Martin Iturbide on January 01, 2020, 09:41:38 pm ---Free free to toss it to the "HowTo pages" on the wiki, I will also review it and make any format change so it can be correctly displayed. Let me know if you need any help with the Wiki.
Regards

--- End quote ---

OK, I will get cracking on that within the next day or so. I do after all want to have a successfull RSYNC run here before I claim to "know it all" and proceed to share my wisdom with the crowd eh? LOL

Dariusz Piatkowski:
Hi Dave!

Let me split up the response into multiple sub-sections.


--- Quote from: Dave Yeo on January 02, 2020, 12:20:16 am ---For number one, there is some stuff on Netlabs that could be copied/formatted for edm. Porting, RPM usage comes to mind.

--- End quote ---

So do we still own/maintain EDM/2? I know the site is still up and chugging away, but it's unclear who actually has the current responsibility, is it netlabs? On the 'Contribute - EDM2' page (http://www.edm2.com/index.php/Contribute) you can find the following section:


--- Code: ---Access to EDM/2 Wiki

You can write to this wiki with a netlabs.org user ID, to get that visit http://www.netlabs.org/site/member/

If anything is wrong please contact ktk@netlabs.org.

--- End code ---

...but based on what I found on netlabs.org (following that provided link) I did not see anything specific to EDM/2 contributions.


--- Quote from: Dave Yeo on January 02, 2020, 12:20:16 am ---...
What do you mean by a development environment? There's so many depending on what is being developed. One thing that would be nice, if RPM supports it, are meta-packages, so you install the GCC or Unix porting develp meta-package and it pulls in all needed stuff as dependencies.

--- End quote ---

Dave, you bet, that was absolutely my thinking. The idea being that we could basicall build a DEV-environment-install-template for each different configuration. So for example: I have VACPP here, along with Watcom and GCC stuff. As I periodically attempt to do things I manage with that type of template based definition which is built around the Visual SlickEdit project functionality. However, that only allows me to deal with PATHs, environment variables, etc...that does not handle the spelling out of what actual toolsets are required.

So in the case of VACPP, or Watcom that's fairly self-explanatory: you install the application and run from there. But GCC...oh boy, that's another thing altogether. I do not mean just the plain vanilla install either. I am talking about all the pieces needed to attempt to migrate anything bigger than the basic Linux type codebase.


--- Quote from: Dave Yeo on January 02, 2020, 12:20:16 am ---...For number two, seems like a good idea as long as avoiding RPM hell, so RPM's have to be tested and maintained...
--- End quote ---

Well, I completely agree. To make this happen however it feels like we basically need good ol' traditional Project Management. A way to assign different folks to different tasks. Since I have no visibility to how teams like BWW or even AN do this type of transactional detail, I have no idea if there are some best-practice type of approaches we could take. Heck, I'd love for us to be able to come in with OS2World testing 'army' that could take on some of the less complex testing efforts. This is where the beauty of community based engagement would really pay off.


--- Quote from: Dave Yeo on January 02, 2020, 12:20:16 am ---...For number three, testing is always a good idea. some things are simple and some aren't. For example, the new NSPR and NSS are stuck in limbo as they seem to make the Mozilla apps unstable and the updated NSS breaks some HTTPS sites with old versions like FF 38ESR. Ideally is not just testing but fixing. Silvan seems to be doing most of the work on a volunteer basis...
--- End quote ---

Right, so the 'OS2World' testing army concept is how I see us being able to make a positive contribution in some of these efforts. We do something similar to this already on the AN Tester List, but that's mostly been unit-level testing with some sprinkling of integration testing (this comment is based only on my personal experience with what I have tested - I realize others are much more engaged and do things like full AN OS installs, etc.).

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