Author Topic: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot  (Read 18377 times)

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4745
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« on: July 28, 2020, 06:52:35 pm »
Hi

I had managed to get a dual boot system between Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x with AirBoot as boot manager. I followed this tutorial which is working very good. (Credit to Richard Dunkle). I also know the premise that you can not acomplish a dual boot on a "GUID Partition Table" HDD, so Windows 10 must on installed on MBR partition table.

But I want to try to understand and document more about the troubleshooting. My issue is that once you have dual boot some changes you made with LVM will break Windows 10 boot and some changes you do on Windows 10 may break ArcaOS Boot. And I had been a hard time trying to recover the dual boot state on the machine. Sometimes I need to resintall Win10 or ArcaOS.

I don't know if someone has more experience with it, and know what to do recover Windows 10 boot manager (or whatever it has), like boot from the USB Flash drive and running xyz commands (Diskpart? bcdedit? bootrec?). Also from the other side, what does Windows 10 does to ArcaOS that breaks it boots and if there is way to fix it (without reinstall).

Any tips are welcome.

Regards
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 01:21:26 am by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Roderick Klein

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 659
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2020, 08:13:23 pm »
But I want to try to understand and document more about the troubleshooting. My issue is that once you have dual boot some changes you made with LVM will break Windows 10 boot and some changes you do on Windows 10 may break ArcaOS Boot. And I had been a hard time trying to recover the dual boot state on the machine. Sometimes I need to resintall Win10 or ArcaOS.

We really really need more information and you need to be extremely specific so we can dig out the details.

Having setup dual  boots with Windows 10 with ArcaOS I  have not experienced the issue you described, where you change something on LVM and Windows 10 no longer boots.

How big is the hard disc you setup ArcaOS on ?

Did you create _all_ partitions with ArcaOS on the disc ?

Roderick

Roderick

David Graser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 878
  • Karma: +87/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2020, 08:32:33 pm »
But I want to try to understand and document more about the troubleshooting. My issue is that once you have dual boot some changes you made with LVM will break Windows 10 boot and some changes you do on Windows 10 may break ArcaOS Boot. And I had been a hard time trying to recover the dual boot state on the machine. Sometimes I need to resintall Win10 or ArcaOS.

We really really need more information and you need to be extremely specific so we can dig out the details.

Having setup dual  boots with Windows 10 with ArcaOS I  have not experienced the issue you described, where you change something on LVM and Windows 10 no longer boots.

How big is the hard disc you setup ArcaOS on ?

Did you create _all_ partitions with ArcaOS on the disc ?

Roderick

Roderick

Hi Martin.

The laptops I have came with Windows 10.  I use a Windows program (can't remember the name right now) to shrink the Windows partition down to the size I need.  Then I do the install of ArcaOS setting up the other partitions.  Never had a problem afterwards.  However, DFSee always states there are problems with the disk, however, whatever the problems never affect the partitions, bootup, or Windows or ArcoOS operations.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 08:47:18 pm by David Graser »

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4745
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2020, 01:26:02 am »
Hi

I'm preparing a 700GB HDD on my Thinkpad L420 to have dual boot there (ArcaOS 5.0.5 and Windows 10), and try to see what can goes wrong.
I will follow these recommendations
- No GUID partition table
- Wipe all the HDD
- Create the partitions from ArcaOS 5.0.5 LVM (Graphical)

Once I have the dual boot configured and working. I will see what I had been doing wrong with LVM or Windows Partition Manager that breaks one or another.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4745
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2020, 03:32:09 am »
Hi

Here it goes my first issue trying to get Dual Boot.
The layout:
C: Windows     655GB    Primary - NTFS - Windows 10 goes here. Formatted by Win10 installer
D: Shared        40GB     Primary - FAT32 - A shared partition
X: ArcaOS        20GB     Primary - JFS - ArcaOS goes here.

1) I created this layout from ArcaOS, installed ArcaOS on X: (formated JFS) and Airboot and everything worked/booted ok.

2) Later I installed Windows 10. It installed ok and broke airboot.


3) I booted again ArcaOS Flash drive and reinstalled AirBoot. Airboot is back.

The problem starts here. AirBoot works but confuses the partitions. I called "Warp" the ArcaOS partition, if I select "Warp" it will run Windows 10.  And now ArcaOS does not boot from AirBoot, it tells there is no OS, and press Ctrl+Alt+Del.



If you boot Windows 10 you will see the partitions this way.




If I boot the ArcaOS Flash drive and go to system management I see:

- No error on "Disk Utility"


- On the graphical "Installation Volume Manager", the ArcaOS JFS partition format is no longer recognized.



I don't know if it is that Windows 10 broke something on the ArcaOS partition format.
Any tips on what more information I can extract of the partitions to try to find what is the issue is welcome.

Regards
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 03:40:38 am by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1559
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2020, 09:45:49 am »
Hi Martin,

It would appear that you have hit the main problem with airboot - it writes to the first track on the disk and so does win 10.  Until such time as someone works out how to install win 10 without it writing its boot information to the first track you are stuck with it. 

Don't forget that windows 10 creates another partition at the start of the disk for its boot information.

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4745
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2020, 04:10:11 pm »
Hi Ivan.

But right now I have Air-Boot and Windows 10 working  (After Air-boot reinstall). Does it means that Air-Boot installed on Win10 partition?

Anyways, I want to see how can I recover the ArcaOS partition now. Or at lease document what is wrong and how I did that. I don't know why X: drive (ArcaOS) JFS format does not longer get recognized by the graphical disk manager (Installation Volume Manager).

Don't forget that windows 10 creates another partition at the start of the disk for its boot information.

As partition I only see this:

and this:


If there are any other techniquest to see hidden partitions, please advice.

Regards
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 04:15:02 pm by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

David Graser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 878
  • Karma: +87/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2020, 05:30:31 pm »
Hi Martin, I believe Win 10 should always be installed first, then ArcaOS and with its boot manager. 

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4745
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2020, 06:22:47 pm »
Hi Martin, I believe Win 10 should always be installed first, then ArcaOS and with its boot manager.

Thanks Dave. I would try that later.

If someone wants to give me some advice on how to asset what did Windows 10 broke on ArcaOS, and if there is a way to recover that partition I would apreciate it. It is just a test machine, I have nothing critical there, but I want to document how to recover from this problem. (if possible)

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Neil Waldhauer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Karma: +24/-0
    • View Profile
    • Blonde Guy
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2020, 09:12:11 pm »
I had this working on my Lenovo Thinkpad X250. It worked fine for a couple of weeks, then I decided to add a new volume with ArcaOS Installation and Volume Manager. After I rebooted, AirBoot no longer works. It starts to put up the menu, then the machine stops working.

If I reinstall AirBoot, nothing is fixed.

If I go back to default MBR, only Windows 10 works. The ArcaOS volume is there, but nothing can tell it to boot.
Expert consulting for ArcaOS, OS/2 and eComStation
http://www.blondeguy.com

Sigurd Fastenrath

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 577
  • Karma: +27/-0
  • OS/2 Versus Hardware - Maximum Warp!
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2020, 09:52:34 pm »
It happens quite often to me that once I change the partition laypiut Airboot manager stops working. It tells me to boot from diskette.

The most succesfull solution in case of having trouble with Airbootmanager was to me:

- Boot DFSEE USB Stick
- Select: NEW MBR; Keep Tables
- Activate Windows 10 boot Partition as active Partition
- Boot Windows 10 and reinstall Airboot

But the best solution was:

- Using IBM Bootmanager instead of Airboot Manager
-> never had such kind of problems even with Windows 10 and OS/2 Double Boot on a 2 TB SSD, please see my T25/2 video at youtube.

ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1559
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2020, 12:57:36 am »

But the best solution was:

- Using IBM Bootmanager instead of Airboot Manager
-> never had such kind of problems even with Windows 10 and OS/2 Double Boot on a 2 TB SSD, please see my T25/2 video at youtube.


Hi Sigurd,

Using the old IBM Bootmanager was/is the answer for me as well - ArcaOS 5.2 and win 7 on a 2TB disk, at least I can see the selection menu that Airboot wouldn't show.

Dave Yeo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4805
  • Karma: +99/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2020, 01:26:43 am »
Strange, when I updated to a 1TB drive, Bootmanager stopped working, or actually only showed my smaller drive, and I was informed it didn't work with drives over 512GB or so, so I switched to airboot.

Andreas Schnellbacher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2020, 01:29:04 am »
Why compare IBM BM with AiRBoot? In cases, where IBM BM (still) works, it might be the best solution, because it uses an own partition. In other cases it's the opposite.

A boot manager that occupies an own partition rather survives the installation of another system than one that is placed in the MBR. For the MBR case: Just reinstall it. Or didn't that work for you?

Neil Waldhauer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Karma: +24/-0
    • View Profile
    • Blonde Guy
Re: Windows 10 and ArcaOS 5.x Dual Boot
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2020, 04:58:48 am »
Why compare IBM BM with AiRBoot? In cases, where IBM BM (still) works, it might be the best solution, because it uses an own partition. In other cases it's the opposite.

A boot manager that occupies an own partition rather survives the installation of another system than one that is placed in the MBR. For the MBR case: Just reinstall it. Or didn't that work for you?

As you guessed, AirBoot does not work no matter how many times you install it. Although I did not think of reinstalling from Windows as Sigurd recommended. Installing MBR does allow Windows to boot. I can also boot ArcaOS from USB stick, which is how I was unsuccessfully reinstalling AirBoot.

I'm hoping this somehow helps Martin with his original post.
Expert consulting for ArcaOS, OS/2 and eComStation
http://www.blondeguy.com