Author Topic: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue  (Read 1573 times)

Igor

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USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« on: August 19, 2020, 01:39:10 pm »
Version 12.07 looks much better. However, the problem with the quality of USB sound has not been fully resolved.
The new version does not lose data anymore, but the sound is choppy. It's like listening to a clipped vinyl record with clicks. Obviously, by the time the playback of the data packet is completed, the next one does not have time to arrive.
Most likely this is a problem in the ECHI driver that they tried to solve. I advise developers to rely on the experience of the 16-bit version. These problems are not there...

Andreas Schnellbacher

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2020, 05:56:49 pm »
...
Sounds interesting. Igor, could you report that to David, either as AN bug report or per PM?

I'm sure, he doesn't read here.

Rich Walsh

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2020, 11:27:47 pm »
Version 12.07 looks much better. However, the problem with the quality of USB sound has not been fully resolved.
The new version does not lose data anymore, but the sound is choppy. It's like listening to a clipped vinyl record with clicks. Obviously, by the time the playback of the data packet is completed, the next one does not have time to arrive.
Most likely this is a problem in the ECHI driver that they tried to solve. I advise developers to rely on the experience of the 16-bit version. These problems are not there...

AFAIK, the original IBM USB Audio driver has never had any significant updates - v12.07 is pretty much the same as every other version back to IBM's v10.something. Since AN now includes Lars/Wim's drivers in ArcaOS, I wouldn't expect any new development. Why bother with the IBM driver when the alternative is clearly better?

Martin Iturbide

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2020, 02:04:48 am »
Hi Igor
... but the sound is choppy. It's like listening to a clipped vinyl record with clicks.

Doug suggest me to use the driver on "<DVD>:\CID\SERVER\ARCAPKG\USBAUD2.WPI" which has USBAUDIO.SYS Lar's version 10.234 and worked for me.  Which USB Audio device are you using (Hardware ID) ? I will like to include it on the wiki.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Igor

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2020, 02:46:28 pm »
AFAIK, the original IBM USB Audio driver has never had any significant updates - v12.07 is pretty much the same as every other version back to IBM's v10.something. Since AN now includes Lars/Wim's drivers in ArcaOS, I wouldn't expect any new development. Why bother with the IBM driver when the alternative is clearly better?
Both drivers (from Lars and from Ark) behave the same with the 12.07 stack. Both work with clicks. This is not a sound driver problem, but the USB ECHI driver.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2020, 08:44:47 pm »
Hi Igor

I slipped this topic. Maybe someone with the same issue can also give feedback.
- Which USB audio hardware are you using? (hardwareID)
- Did you have the same issue with older USB stacks or USBAudio drivers? Did you used to have his problem on the past?

You can also open a ticket to Arca Noar with this information to see if something went wrong.

Regards
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 09:10:21 pm by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2020, 08:47:54 pm »
Sorry Igor, I found the answers to my questions in your older post.

Hi Martin,
I use TI PCM2704.
Lars drivers work great with this hardware and in any configuration.
The error occurs when installing the 12.x kit from Arca. At the moment, I checked version 12.06 and
audio driver from version 12.06. I see a problem in the fact that USB 12.x drivers do not work correctly in a multiprocessor system.
If there is 1 processor in the system (either only one is present, or the rest are not loaded or stopped) - everything works
correctly.
Code: [Select]
<<< Device Description >>>
 Type            : 01
 USB Rev         : 110
 Class           : Reserved (0)
 Subclass        : Reserved (0)
 Protocol        : Reserved (0)
  Device Information is defined at interface Level
 Max. packetsize : 08
 Vendor  ID      : 08BB
 Product ID      : 2704
 Device Release# : 0100
 Strings:
  Manufacturer Name : Burr-Brown from TI             
  Product Name      : USB Audio DAC   
  Serial number     : Not implemented
 Number of Configurations : 1

 Configuration 0 :
  Lenght     : 190
  Name       : <NONE>
  Value      : 1
  Attributes : 0x80
  Power      : 500 mA
  Interfaces : 3

  Interface 0
   Alt Setting : 0
   Name        : <NONE>
   Class       : Audio
   SubClass    : AudioControl
   Protocol    : Not used(0)
   Endpoints   : 0
     Audiocontrol CS Interface Descriptor
     Length  : 9
     Type    : 0x24
     Subtype : 0x01
    Header :
     Audio Device Class Release Number : 0100
     Max size of AudioControl interface descriptor. : 16205
     Number of AudioStreaming and MIDIStreaming interfaces : 1
      1. Streaming interface on Device Interface 1
     Audiocontrol CS Interface Descriptor
    Input Terminal :
     Length  : 12
     Type    : 0x24
     Subtype : 0x02
     Unique Terminal ID       : 1
     Terminal Type            : 0x0101
     Assoc. Terminal ID       : 0
     Number of Log. Channels  : 2
     Spatial channel location : 0x0003
     Name of Channel          : Not Implemented
     Name of Terminal         : Burr-Brown from TI             
     Audiocontrol CS Interface Descriptor
    Output Terminal :
     Length  : 9
     Type    : 0x24
     Subtype : 0x03
     Unique Terminal ID : 2
     Terminal Type      : 0x0301
     Assoc. Terminal ID : 0
     Source ID          : 3
     Name of Terminal   : Not Implemented
     Audiocontrol CS Interface Descriptor
    Feature Unit :
    Length  : 10
    Type    : 36
    Subtype : 6
    Dumped Data :
     03 01 01 01 02 02
     00 09
     Unique Unit ID  : 3
     Source ID       : 1
     Size of Control Item  : 1
     ControlMap for Master : 0x01
     ControlMap for Channel 1 : 0x02
     ControlMap for Channel 2 : 0x02
     Name of Feature Unit : Burr-Brown from TI             

  Interface 1
   Alt Setting : 0
   Name        : <NONE>
   Class       : Audio
   SubClass    : Streaming Audio
   Protocol    : Not used(0)
   Endpoints   : 0

  Interface 1
   Alt Setting : 1
   Name        : <NONE>
   Class       : Audio
   SubClass    : Streaming Audio
   Protocol    : Not used(0)
   Endpoints   : 1
    General Endpoint Information:
     Length  : 7
     Type    : 0x24
     Subtype : 0x01
     Controls:
      - Sampling Frequency
      - Locktime 16263 (No Unit)
     Audiostreaming CS Interface Descriptor
     Format Type:
     Length  : 17
     Type    : 0x24
     Subtype : 0x02
      Physical Channels : 2
      Subframe size     : 2
      Bits used         : 16
      Supported Frequencies
       - 32000Hz
       - 44100Hz
       - 48000Hz
       - 132361Hz

   Endpoint 0:
    Address     : 02
    Attributes  : 09
    Packetsize  : 00C0
    Interval    : 1
    General Endpoint Information:
     Length  : 7
     Type    : 0x25
     Subtype : 0x01
     Controls:
      - Locktime 16296 Decoded PCM samples

  Interface 1
   Alt Setting : 2
   Name        : <NONE>
   Class       : Audio
   SubClass    : Streaming Audio
   Protocol    : Not used(0)
   Endpoints   : 1
    General Endpoint Information:
     Length  : 7
     Type    : 0x24
     Subtype : 0x01
     Controls:
      - Sampling Frequency
      - Locktime 16312 (No Unit)
     Audiostreaming CS Interface Descriptor
     Format Type:
     Length  : 17
     Type    : 0x24
     Subtype : 0x02
      Physical Channels : 1
      Subframe size     : 2
      Bits used         : 16
      Supported Frequencies
       - 32000Hz
       - 44100Hz
       - 48000Hz
       - 132361Hz

   Endpoint 0:
    Address     : 02
    Attributes  : 09
    Packetsize  : 0060
    Interval    : 1
    General Endpoint Information:
     Length  : 7
     Type    : 0x25
     Subtype : 0x01
     Controls:
      - Locktime 16345 Decoded PCM samples

  Interface 2
   Alt Setting : 0
   Name        : <NONE>
   Class       : Human Interface Device (HID)
   SubClass    : No Subclass
   Protocol    : None
   Endpoints   : 1
   HID Description:
    Length          : 09
    HID Rel. Number : 100
    Country Code    : 0000
    Descriptors     : 1
     Type          : 22
     Length        : 0
     Type          : 07
     Length        : 0

   Endpoint 0:
    Address     : 85
    Attributes  : 03
    Packetsize  : 0001
    Interval    : 10

I think it is time to open a ticket, since you already did the testing and it was working for you on older releases of the USB stack.
Regards
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 03:54:47 am by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
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Dave Yeo

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2020, 01:30:33 am »
You have to open a ticket as David who has been doing the USB stuff does not monitor this forum.

Remy

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2020, 10:16:09 am »
Which usb driver do you load :
BASEDEV=USBXHCD.SYS  ?
BASEDEV=USBEHCD.SYS  ?

Did you a try loading USBEHCD only ?
Regards

Lars

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2020, 05:31:15 pm »
AFAIK, the original IBM USB Audio driver has never had any significant updates - v12.07 is pretty much the same as every other version back to IBM's v10.something. Since AN now includes Lars/Wim's drivers in ArcaOS, I wouldn't expect any new development. Why bother with the IBM driver when the alternative is clearly better?
Both drivers (from Lars and from Ark) behave the same with the 12.07 stack. Both work with clicks. This is not a sound driver problem, but the USB ECHI driver.

I do know that Wim invested a lot of effort on USBEHCD.SYS to get isochronous transfers to work on EHCI (OHCI and UHCI were much better in this respect). There were some iterations until it would finally work. One of the things that I also fixed more than once (in USBEHCD.SYS) was the bandwidth computation in order to reserve the proper transmission frames (the ones with the least occupied bandwidth).
Then Wim did some iterations on USBAUDIO.SYS to get it to smoothly stream the data into USBD.SYS (and eventually USBEHCD.SYS).
I guess that David did not follow all the changes that went into USBEHCD.SYS regarding isochronous transfers and rolled his own ball.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 05:34:14 pm by Lars »

Lars

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2020, 07:33:37 pm »
Version 12.07 looks much better. However, the problem with the quality of USB sound has not been fully resolved.
The new version does not lose data anymore, but the sound is choppy. It's like listening to a clipped vinyl record with clicks. Obviously, by the time the playback of the data packet is completed, the next one does not have time to arrive.
Most likely this is a problem in the ECHI driver that they tried to solve. I advise developers to rely on the experience of the 16-bit version. These problems are not there...

Does USB audio also properly work with the 11.17 EHCI driver (or the 11.17 driver set in its entirety) ? If yes, that should give David some good hint of what to change.

Igor

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2020, 07:13:46 pm »
Does USB audio also properly work with the 11.17 EHCI driver (or the 11.17 driver set in its entirety) ? If yes, that should give David some good hint of what to change.
I have installed and tested version 11.17. The version 11.17 stack works correctly and the sound is not interrupted or spoiled. The problem is only in version 12.xx.

Igor

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Re: USB 12.07 stack - Audio Clicking Issue
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2020, 07:16:03 pm »
Which usb driver do you load :
BASEDEV=USBXHCD.SYS  ?
BASEDEV=USBEHCD.SYS  ?

Did you a try loading USBEHCD only ?
Regards
I not use USBXHCD. USBUHCD and USBEHCD only.