Hobbes (Files) Reoganization

[Martin Iturbide]

Hi

I had been trying for the last couple of months to reorganize some OS/2 files on hobbes.
The reasons and motivations (with the discussion) can be find on this thread.

I had been slowly doing some progress, and it is going to take a long time.

The premises are:
- A full hobbes backup is already at archive.org and OS2Site. (Before the changes)
- In the case of applications (not drivers), I'm only leaving on hobbes the latest version. Older versions are in the backups and hopefully in the future it may be organized somewhere else like OS2site. It will be like having one repository for the latest files version (hobbes) and other one with everything (old and new) (OS2Site and Archive.org).
- I'm trying to identify the version number and date of each application to include it clearly on the short description so users will know how old is the software at first hand.
- I'm also changing the file names, to try to include a better naming for the files. Ex: There were files like "os2.zip" or "warp.zip" that sometimes don't tell you what it is.

- I'm sorry, but the process is slow, I have to go file by file and create the .txt file for it. And I need to use the incoming directory to update hobbes, I have no other way as far as I know. I'm sorry to put so many files on that directory, specially for the people like to always check on it for newer software releases.

- For the moment I'm focusing on "/apps", "/utils" and "/multimedia". I will not look into /info and /dev yet.

- Don't get angry and start calling me names if you don't like that some file is is not named or located in where you want. Let's discuss the rationale of that and see if we can get some agreement.

- If there is any older version of a software that I removed and it will be very important to maintain, please let me know which one and why, so we document that. Also remember that those files are on the hobbes backup and OS2site.

- I'm not sure if I'm ever going to finish this. Technically is easy, no brainer, but it takes a lot of time to go file by file and complete the .txt files. And I also play a little bit with the old software, take some screenshot for the wiki, if it is possible.

For the moment I had complete the reorganization these directories:
    /pub/os2/apps/diary
    /pub/os2/apps/speech
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/cd/player
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/radio
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/TV
    /pub/os2/apps/mmedia/scheme
    /pub/os2/util/optical
    /pub/os2/util/batch


I had been working on moving files that I consider that are in the wrong folders, like icons, pointers on the /util, by creating newer categories for it.

I still need help on somethings like:

1) The directories "apps/graphics", "apps/multimedia" and "apps/internet" offers a challenge since there are big subcategories.

I even think that "apps/internet" is no longer as understandable as it was before, since now the internet is a common thing and the meaning of having exclusive apps for the internet is getting lost. I will discuss this further, but suggestions are welcome.

2) The "misc" directories are also something that need to be reviewed with more detail, since some files can be put on the right category, but for the uploader it was easy to put it on "/util/misc/" or "apps/misc" instead of finding the right place for it. I don't mean those folders shouldn't exist, but a double check into its contents will be good to see if there can be a better place.

3) Please let me know if by any chance I had reorganized some old software, and there is a newer version available.

4) I'm still not sure what to do with X11 (XFree86) software. Should I leave it on the same directory or should we create a new structure for X11? And/Or include on the file name "GameName_X11_1-0.zip" or "GameName_1-0_X11.zip"

5) Something more specific will be:
5.1) Suggestions on where should I put the applications for remote control? VNC? Desktop On Call? HelpDesk?
5.2) Suggestions on where should I put the applications  for file sharing? like torrent, Napster, etc?
5.3) What about the xcenter widgets? Should it be on a folder for xcenter widgets? or should each one goes on the belonging category folder of what it does?

If there is someone else, that would like to do the same (reorganize and upload files to hobbes) with DOS, Win16 and Win32 (Odin) and Java freeware software that runs on OS/2, maybe adding some extra .cmd and documentation to make it easy for OS/2 users to run, let me know.

Like always, help is welcome.

Regards

[Andreas Schnellbacher]

I agree. It shows that every classification needs to be maintained. Some thoughts:

To 1)

apps/internet is really not useful nowadays. OTOH has it useful subdirs (protocols) that makes it easy to find e.g. Thunderbird. apps/comm doesn't really make sense in a parallel dir.

apps/graphics and apps/multimedia: Use either a few (max. 10) more top-level dirs or many same-level dirs, but not both. It depends on the structure you have for this. I prefer more the first and wouldn't make it depend on what is now on Hobbes only. It's better to avoid trees with complete different amount of elements on the same level.

I would rather place the other smaller trees that have a too high level below useful top levels.

Another thing is single files in a dir that has other subdirs. Should they rather be placed in a "misc" dir below that? Then "misc" would make sense.

I guess you have already thought about most of them.

To 2)

These two misc dirs contain far too many items. I agree that most of them belong rather to other dirs.

To 5)

5.1) "remote". But rdesktop really in apps/internet/misc?
5.2) "filesharing"
5.3) "xworkplace\widgets"

(I prefer rather short names, but I always stumble about "wp" which should rather be "wordproc" and "dtp", IMO.)


Some other thoughts:

About Thunderbird: I would prefer to place Lightning beneath Thunderbird, not in apps/calendar. After moving them, the rest of app/calendar doesn't need such a high dir level.

About apps/wp: Acrobat Reader (not Distiller), IBM BookManager, PDFMerge and the GNU libs don't belong here. (I've just found that you've already mentioned PDFMerge in an earlier message.)

I'm not sure where to place programs and viewers an tools for special formats. I have here placed them in subdirs below "Format", but I don't like "Format" anymore. It's not that easy as it seems. Someone has to have a good idea for that.

About util: What's the criterion to place it here or in apps, esp. regarding the current contents of apps? I would drop that and move it rather to apps.

How is your planned structure?

[Martin Iturbide]

Thanks for the feedback Andreas.

How is your planned structure?

That is a good question. I don't have yet the final idea, since the idea changes according to the files and apps I found surfing hobbes. I think I will first write down the structure as it is, and work from it to post some planned structure.

apps/internet
...apps/graphics and apps/multimedia

Thanks for the feedback, I need more thoughts on it. But I won't make drastic changes yet until I get a clearer idea.

5.1) "remote". But rdesktop really in apps/internet/misc?

I think I'm going to start with "/pub/os2/util/remote" for it, and not put it on "/internet".

5.2) "filesharing"

I think I'm going to try "/pub/os2/apps/internet/filesharing" to reduce the number of files of "/pub/os2/apps/internet/misc"

5.3) "xworkplace\widgets"

Here I'm not sure if it is an app or an util.
- /pub/os2/util/wps/xwp/widgets
or
- /pub/os2/apps/wps/xwp/widgets
For what I know Xworkplace is more categorized as an utility instead of an application.

About Thunderbird: I would prefer to place Lightning beneath Thunderbird, not in apps/calendar. After moving them, the rest of app/calendar doesn't need such a high dir level.

I also share the idea that Lighting should be near Thunderbird, since it requires Thundebird to run.

About apps/wp: Acrobat Reader (not Distiller), IBM BookManager, PDFMerge and the GNU libs don't belong here. (I've just found that you've already mentioned PDFMerge in an earlier message.)

I also have some doubts here. On hobbes the "/pub/os2/apps/wp" description says "Word processing and desktop publishing".  I think that Acrobat, IBM BookManager and PDF related tools are "desktop publishing software", right? But I think that "desktop publishing" needs to be split from "/pub/os2/apps/wp"

I have no idea where to put the DLL runtimes yet. There are some on /dev and some on /apps. I'm not sure yet.

About util: What's the criterion to place it here or in apps, esp. regarding the current contents of apps? I would drop that and move it rather to apps.

The difference between Apps and Utils: For what I know and google says "Utility Software, as name suggests, is a software designed to perform particular tasks that help in making device perform better and keep environment safe." So, even that everything may be an application, "Utils" are software(applications) more related to make the OS work better to make it easier to administrate.


Regards

[Dave Yeo]

About Lightning, I can't even remember why I uploaded the older versions, packaging error or wanting to include gdata-provider and timezones, but those could go.
The newer versions seem to be all NLS versions, which somewhat surprises me as I would have thought applying a language pack would have updated lightning as well, but apparently not.
As Lightning is also a SeaMonkey add-on, I'd suggest a new directory, Mozilla add-ons or such. I have various other add-ons that I keep wondering about uploading to Hobbes. This includes some new ones such as ublock-origin's latest for XUL based browsers, which I had to patch for SeaMonkey (upstream refused to support our SeaMonkey)
About getting rid of old versions. Mostly I agree but there are exceptions. For the Mozilla apps for example, it seems that some people still use the 38ESR versions and I think they should also be left.
There's other examples where having multiple versions easily available is a good idea. GCC for example where some projects depend on older versions. XFree86, where ideally you have v4 and v3.31 both installed as v4 is missing some stuff that came with v3.x.
There's likely other examples, especially in dev where specific versions are needed and people are likely to expect them on Hobbes. Disk space is cheap.

[Martin Iturbide]

Hi Dave.
Thanks also for the feedback.

About getting rid of old versions. Mostly I agree but there are exceptions. For the Mozilla apps for example, it seems that some people still use the 38ESR versions and I think they should also be left.

I also agree that some Firefox 38ESR should remain in hobbes, but I still don't get there. There seems to many builds, and even if there is a full backup of all of those, I would need advice to know which one should remain there.

But I'm still not even sure of the location of the "Browser" directory. Currently it is on "/pub/os2/apps/internet/www/browser" and I think that the "internet" and "www" categories are no longer understood as it were on the past. Maybe it should only be "/pub/os2/apps/browser" or "/pub/os2/apps/internet/browser"

Regards

[Dave Yeo]

For the various Mozilla apps, the latest of each architecture is probably fine.
As for the browser, it is even worse as only Firefox is a pure browser. SeaMonkey is a browser and email (and news and IRC and composer) client and even Thunderbird is quite capable of acting as a browser as well as newsgroups and various chat protocols such as IRC.
Perhaps they all should be under  "/pub/os2/apps/internet/apps" or  "/pub/os2/apps/internet/mozilla" or "mozilla/apps"
It is awkward when programs have various uses but to me it seems FF, SM and TB should be in the same place or better, symlinked or hard linked to a couple of locations.

[Martin Iturbide]

"/pub/os2/apps/internet/mozilla" or "mozilla/apps"

I'm trying to set a rule of not putting directory names about brands and/or products (even that sometimes I break that rule), and I want to make the directory names about what the software is for like "e-mail", "browser", but you are right about where do we put SeaMonkey or the Netscape suite... maybe under browser since it is mainly know it for that.

Ex: I don't like "/pub/os2/apps/internet/notes" that is "Lotus Notes" related. Also Lotus Notes works on the Internet and on a intranet, so putting it under "/internet" does not looks good today. Maybe the Lotus Notes files should be under "e-mail" since it is known for that function.

I still want to write down some proposed directory structure. The "/pub/os2/apps/internet/" still does not click for me (today).

Regards

[Martin Iturbide]

FYI: Here it is the current structure:

Code: [Select]

├───apps
│   ├───analysis
│   ├───calc
│   ├───calendar
│   ├───clock
│   ├───comm
│   │   ├───ansmach
│   │   ├───bbs
│   │   │   ├───adeptxbbs
│   │   │   ├───door
│   │   │   ├───maximus
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───fax
│   │   ├───fossil
│   │   ├───offline
│   │   ├───term
│   │   └───transfer
│   ├───database
│   ├───diary
│   ├───editors
│   │   ├───emacs
│   │   └───epm
│   ├───emulator
│   ├───graphics
│   │   ├───animate
│   │   ├───cad
│   │   ├───convert
│   │   ├───draw
│   │   ├───fractal
│   │   ├───gimp
│   │   ├───imagepro
│   │   ├───irit
│   │   ├───paint
│   │   ├───plot
│   │   ├───presentation
│   │   ├───ray
│   │   │   └───pov
│   │   ├───scan
│   │   ├───scrncapt
│   │   └───viewer
│   ├───internet
│   │   ├───archie
│   │   │   └───client
│   │   ├───chat
│   │   ├───dialer
│   │   ├───dynip
│   │   ├───ftp
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───irc
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   ├───script
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───mail
│   │   │   ├───list
│   │   │   ├───reader
│   │   │   │   ├───mr2i
│   │   │   │   └───pmm
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───mirror
│   │   │   ├───ftp
│   │   │   └───www
│   │   ├───misc
│   │   ├───mud
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   └───server
│   │   ├───news
│   │   │   ├───reader
│   │   │   ├───server
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───notes
│   │   ├───ppp
│   │   ├───suite
│   │   ├───telnet
│   │   │   ├───client
│   │   │   └───server
│   │   ├───time
│   │   ├───util
│   │   ├───uucp
│   │   └───www
│   │       ├───browser
│   │       ├───cgi
│   │       ├───editors
│   │       ├───server
│   │       ├───util
│   │       └───vrml
│   ├───math
│   │   ├───euler
│   │   └───octave
│   ├───misc
│   ├───mmedia
│   │   ├───cd
│   │   │   ├───cd-r
│   │   │   ├───grabber
│   │   │   └───player
│   │   ├───codec
│   │   ├───jukebox
│   │   ├───misc
│   │   ├───music
│   │   │   ├───midi
│   │   │   │   ├───editors
│   │   │   │   ├───keyboard
│   │   │   │   ├───players
│   │   │   │   └───util
│   │   │   ├───misc
│   │   │   └───mod
│   │   │       ├───players
│   │   │       └───util
│   │   ├───scheme
│   │   ├───sound
│   │   │   ├───convert
│   │   │   ├───editors
│   │   │   ├───players
│   │   │   └───util
│   │   ├───TV
│   │   ├───util
│   │   │   ├───mixers
│   │   │   └───patch
│   │   └───video
│   │       ├───capture
│   │       ├───convert
│   │       └───players
│   ├───money
│   ├───pim
│   ├───religion
│   ├───science
│   │   ├───ai
│   │   ├───astro
│   │   ├───biology
│   │   ├───chem
│   │   ├───ee
│   │   ├───human
│   │   ├───phys
│   │   └───robot
│   │       └───mindstorm
│   ├───scrnsave
│   ├───speech
│   ├───spell
│   ├───spread
│   ├───suite
│   ├───wp
│   │   ├───convert
│   │   └───tex
│   │       ├───betatest
│   │       ├───emtex
│   │       ├───psfonts
│   │       └───util
│   └───wps
│       ├───xfolder
│       └───xworkplace
├───dev
│   ├───16-bit
│   ├───32-bit
│   ├───ada
│   ├───asm
│   ├───awk
│   ├───basic
│   ├───c
│   ├───codec
│   ├───cplusplus
│   │   └───patches
│   ├───database
│   ├───dive
│   ├───dll
│   ├───dos
│   ├───drivers
│   ├───emx
│   │   ├───contrib
│   │   │   ├───bison
│   │   │   ├───g77
│   │   │   ├───gcc
│   │   │   └───gnat
│   │   ├───v0.9c
│   │   └───v0.9d
│   ├───forth
│   ├───fortran
│   ├───help
│   ├───icon
│   ├───info
│   │   └───msjournal
│   ├───jscript
│   ├───lisp
│   ├───misc
│   ├───mm
│   ├───modula
│   ├───orexx
│   ├───pascal
│   ├───perl
│   ├───pm
│   ├───python
│   ├───rexx
│   │   ├───patches
│   │   └───vxtech
│   ├───SDL
│   ├───smalltalk
│   ├───tcl
│   ├───unix
│   ├───util
│   ├───wps
│   └───x11
│       └───gtk
├───doc
│   └───OpenGL
├───games
│   ├───action
│   │   ├───doom
│   │   └───quake
│   ├───adventure
│   ├───board
│   │   ├───checkers
│   │   └───chess
│   ├───casino
│   ├───educ
│   ├───mahjongg
│   ├───misc
│   ├───network
│   ├───patches
│   ├───puzzle
│   ├───rogue
│   ├───sport
│   ├───strategy
│   │   └───galciv
│   ├───toys
│   ├───txtadv
│   └───word
├───info
│   ├───faq
│   ├───forum
│   ├───newsltr
│   │   ├───connect
│   │   ├───dsn
│   │   ├───edm
│   │   ├───gamerev
│   │   ├───hhgos2
│   │   ├───midwest
│   │   ├───mm
│   │   ├───mn
│   │   ├───mnth
│   │   ├───pros
│   │   ├───sd
│   │   ├───tmb
│   │   ├───tmos2
│   │   ├───to2
│   │   ├───voice
│   │   └───warpfl
│   └───tips
├───system
│   ├───drivers
│   │   ├───APM
│   │   ├───cdrom
│   │   ├───CPU
│   │   ├───filesys
│   │   ├───irda
│   │   ├───misc
│   │   ├───modem
│   │   ├───mouse
│   │   ├───network
│   │   ├───PCCard
│   │   ├───printer
│   │   ├───scanner
│   │   ├───scsi
│   │   ├───serial
│   │   ├───sound
│   │   ├───storage
│   │   ├───TV
│   │   ├───usb
│   │   └───video
│   ├───patches
│   │   ├───fixpack
│   │   │   ├───v2.x
│   │   │   ├───warp_3
│   │   │   └───warp_4
│   │   │       ├───xr_m001
│   │   │       ├───xr_m004
│   │   │       ├───xr_m005
│   │   │       ├───xr_m013
│   │   │       └───xr_m014
│   │   ├───installer
│   │   ├───mixed
│   │   ├───v2.x
│   │   ├───warp_3
│   │   └───warp_4
│   └───x11
│       ├───term
│       ├───wm
│       └───XFree86
│           ├───v3.1
│           ├───v3.2
│           ├───v3.3
│           └───v3.3.1
├───util
│   ├───archiver
│   ├───backup
│   ├───batch
│   ├───benchmark
│   ├───browser
│   ├───clipbrd
│   ├───config
│   ├───convert
│   ├───disk
│   ├───encrypt
│   ├───file
│   ├───font
│   ├───international
│   │   └───chinese
│   ├───keyboard
│   ├───macro
│   ├───mboard
│   ├───memory
│   ├───misc
│   ├───mouse
│   │   └───amptr
│   ├───network
│   │   ├───lansrv
│   │   ├───ndis
│   │   ├───netware
│   │   └───tcpip
│   ├───optical
│   ├───patches
│   ├───power
│   ├───printer
│   │   └───ghost
│   ├───process
│   ├───schedule
│   ├───shell
│   ├───startup
│   ├───system
│   ├───virus
│   └───wps
└───win32os2


[Martin Iturbide]

Hi

Even that I don't want to touch "/dev" yet, I'm thinking on moving "/pub/os2/apps/internet/www/editors" to something like "/pub/os2/dev/webauthoring"

Update: Or maybe just "/pub/os2/dev/web" which may mean Web Author or Web Development.

Regards

[Dave Yeo]

It seems to me they should be kept under apps. While it's true you can stretch html composers/editors to call them developer stuff, they're really aimed at regular users who want to throw together a web page. I wouldn't expect to find them under dev/

[Martin Iturbide]

Hi

I think that the first stage of the hobbes reoganization (the first stage in my head) is almost ready. It was to rename and relocate some programs that where in the main category of some directories. For example there was a lot of stuff on "/pub/os2/util", "/pub/os2/apps", "/pub/os2/apps/graphics", "/pub/os2/apps/mmedia", etc, that were relocated to the correct directory. There are still something missing, like "/pub/os2/apps/comm" that is a mess.

The other things was to try to remove the excess of same apps with different version on hobbes (remember that we have backups). It still a work in progress.

Now I will focus on the super boring task of trying to rename and if possible reorganize some the apps. It is so boring that I prefer not doing it on a straight forward order, that's why my uploads seems so random. These will take some months.

Regards

[Martin Iturbide]

Hi

I need a place to put all the document viewers for Inf, PDF, Djvu, BOO, etc. With apps like NewView, Lucide, Acrobat Reader, Bookmanager, etc.

I'm thinking on creating "/pub/os2/apps/docviewer", instead of using "apps/misc" or "util/system"

Regards

[Dave Yeo]

"/pub/os2/apps/docviewer" sounds good, or at least I can't think of anything better (more general)

[Andreas Schnellbacher]

"/pub/os2/apps/docviewer"

Same from me.

[Martin Iturbide]

Thanks.  The docviewer/ was created and I'm putting some files there.