Author Topic: Boycott Discussion  (Read 706 times)

Martin Iturbide

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Boycott Discussion
« on: May 27, 2022, 12:08:38 am »
Hi Roderick
From my perspective this way of fixing stuff is the same as throwing mutt at the wall and see if it sticks.
I think everybody is putting Glenn on the wrong foot to make him replace pmmerge.dll. It might fix the crash the but nobody even knows why the crash occurs in the first place. So if you backlevel the last version of pmmerge.dll with an older one. The program might start to work, but then what is broken ?
I mean its all well intended but what is causing the crash in the first place ? PMMERGE.DLL is pretty important system dll and not something that should just be swapped out like spare tire from the trunk of your car.

I took these words as your opinion and FUD against the OS4 development. Please open another thread if you want to express something else. We know that the OS4 development is experimental and for me it is categorised as a research/educational project. We have discussed that a lot on the forums, and I don't want to continue with that.

Sorry Glenn, let's try to get the "popuplog.os2 entry" as Roderick also said.

Regards
« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 04:10:09 am by Martin Iturbide »
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Roderick Klein

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Re: Boycott Discussion
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2022, 12:17:15 am »
Its not any statements against anybody or OS/4. You should not recommend to swap key system files to get an application to work. I think we should rather start to learn how to analyze the issue at hand and see if we can fix possibly. If you put an old version of PMMERGE.DLL, what can then be broken ?

What can we do with popuplog.os2 Entry ? How can we analyse a crash and see if we can fix it actually. Sometimes the exceptq.log provides SOME information so you can see what goes wrong. But since popuplog.os2 has registers. How can you analyse this ? If we could learn that togheter we can help possibly BETTER analyse crashes for people as team. BTW That is not always easy, but if we can learn it to an extend...
« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 04:15:32 am by Martin Iturbide »

Rich Walsh

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Re: Boicot Discussion
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2022, 01:38:04 am »
I took these words as your opinion and FUD against the OS4 development.

This is OUTRAGEOUS!  For anyone to make such an accusation with no basis in fact would be out of line. For you to do so - especially against someone who has done more to promote OS/2 development (e.g. Dooble) than nearly anyone - calls into question whether you are really suitable to be an os2world moderator. You should apologize immediately.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 01:39:39 am by Rich Walsh »

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Boycott Discussion
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2022, 04:04:23 am »
Hi Rich

I'm sorry but there is more background history here. I had noticed a lot of FUD against OS/2 russian developers and the OS4 project on the past. I don't want that and I want to advice people to stop that kind of things on the forum. There had been some private, "super confidential", that "I'm not supposed to repeat" skype calls on the past and I will no longer take part on those.

I will stop on the forum any attempt of boycott a project, even if you think that are hard words.

Roderick may love this platform, work hard to do things for OS/2, but he has ways to obtain his goals that I don't like or share.

Regards
« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 05:05:36 am by Martin Iturbide »
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jailbird

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Re: Boycott Discussion
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2022, 05:56:39 am »
Its not any statements against anybody or OS/4. You should not recommend to swap key system files to get an application to work. I think we should rather start to learn how to analyze the issue at hand and see if we can fix possibly. If you put an old version of PMMERGE.DLL, what can then be broken ?

That's my fault and I apologize. I saw mention that the trap was happening in PMMERGE.DLL and I remembered that the OS/4 team had squashed some bugs in that, so I figured it was worth a shot to try.

Dave Yeo

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Re: Boycott Discussion
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2022, 06:31:15 am »
Its not any statements against anybody or OS/4. You should not recommend to swap key system files to get an application to work. I think we should rather start to learn how to analyze the issue at hand and see if we can fix possibly. If you put an old version of PMMERGE.DLL, what can then be broken ?

That's my fault and I apologize. I saw mention that the trap was happening in PMMERGE.DLL and I remembered that the OS/4 team had squashed some bugs in that, so I figured it was worth a shot to try.

Nothing wrong with making the suggestion and doing the test. Do have to remember that using it will result in no support from Arca Noae and the very small possibility of being sued by IBM as, IIRC, the license doesn't allow reverse engineering.

Roderick Klein

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Re: Boycott Discussion
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2022, 11:36:33 am »
Hi Roderick
From my perspective this way of fixing stuff is the same as throwing mutt at the wall and see if it sticks.
I think everybody is putting Glenn on the wrong foot to make him replace pmmerge.dll. It might fix the crash the but nobody even knows why the crash occurs in the first place. So if you backlevel the last version of pmmerge.dll with an older one. The program might start to work, but then what is broken ?
I mean its all well intended but what is causing the crash in the first place ? PMMERGE.DLL is pretty important system dll and not something that should just be swapped out like spare tire from the trunk of your car.

I took these words as your opinion and FUD against the OS4 development..

Regards

I told you that already 3 times Martin its not, not not. End of story.  I thought we would try as community project see how we could analyze the issue and learn how to trace the issue in the way you can trace it with tools from IBM. 

Why do you think I asked in the second posting for the popuplog.os2 entry to see what is going on ?
https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3063.msg34814.html#msg34814

Why do you think I asked for this ? If the version of PMMERGE.DLL matches with the PMMERGE.DLL you MIGHT be able to trace the crash.
The crash could be caused by an font installed. I have seen that happen as well.

Why do you think I suggested using PMDF and making a procdump of the process crashing ?
I will not try and get engaged anymore to try and help debug a problem anymore.
Good luck swapping files around.

Roderick

Roderick Klein

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Re: Boycott Discussion
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2022, 11:45:03 am »
Its not any statements against anybody or OS/4. You should not recommend to swap key system files to get an application to work. I think we should rather start to learn how to analyze the issue at hand and see if we can fix possibly. If you put an old version of PMMERGE.DLL, what can then be broken ?

That's my fault and I apologize. I saw mention that the trap was happening in PMMERGE.DLL and I remembered that the OS/4 team had squashed some bugs in that, so I figured it was worth a shot to try.

Nobody is to blame at all. All suggestions are well intended. I just do not see you should swap a key system file.  OS/4 has fixed some bugs in PMMERGE.DLL. But I did not know what exactly fixed and that is why I asked what bugs where fixed. I suggested asking for the information so we could possibly find out what was causing it. But sadly PMMERGE.DLL is a big DLL and a lot ways this DLL can crash. Its one of the core PMSHELL DLL's.
The crash could be caused by an installed font. Does the DUX program install any extra fonts for example ?

I thought it would have been a great learning project to debug the issue on the forum. The stuff how to read popuplog.os2 is document by IBM in PDF's, Martin has these. And Martin I think knows what PMDF.EXE is for ?, which I also suggested we could use to load a procesdump.
We could have use Steve Levine his script for this http://www.warpcave.com/os2diags/index.html  to create a procdump.
How many people use this to debug crashes they can not figure out ?

Roderick
« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 11:49:09 am by Roderick Klein »

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Boycott Discussion
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2022, 01:34:12 pm »
Hi Roderick

It is good that you clarified that for the moment you don't have anything against the OS4 project or their developers.

My alarms just jumps off based on your past behaviour, our past skype calls and when you use phrases like "throwing mutt at the wall and see if it sticks" or "swapped out like spare tire from the trunk of your car " to undermine the free will of a OS/2 user to change the components of their OS.

If you don't have issues with the OS4 project, that's fine with me.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Roderick Klein

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Re: Boycott Discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2022, 01:53:21 pm »
It is not to undermine the free will. Its rather to see how we can try and learn in this forum to see how we can possibly analyse WHY a program crashes.

Who ever made a memory dump or process dump  and loaded in PMDF ?

Roderick