Author Topic: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze  (Read 10641 times)

christech

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« on: December 04, 2022, 07:01:59 pm »
Seem to have an issue with Netlabs EPMD 1.24. It installs fine but after rebooting it hangs after launching. If I Control-ESC I get a non responsive message and then it finally loads and subsequent launches are fine. Any idea how to troubleshoot this? V1.0 seems to be fine. Will test out 1.23 also. The whole system is froze until I Control-ESC.

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4710
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2022, 02:26:34 pm »
Hi christech.

I installed ​nepmd124_eng.wpi on a ArcaOS 5.0.7 VM. I used NEPDM without issues, I had rebooted and used it too without any issues.

I was not able to reproduce your issue.

Are you doing something specific on NEPDM when it get non responsive?
Do you have any other software that behaves similar (non responsive) on your machine?

On "Help-NEPDM runtime information" it gives some information about the components, maybe you can check if something is different on your side.
Code: [Select]

          netlabs.org EPM Distribution - Runtime Information
    Copyright (c) netlabs.org EPM Distribution Project 2002 - 2022
                     http://trac.netlabs.org/nepmd
      Copyright (c) IBM Corporation 1989, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996

Versions
--------
     Editor version: 6.03b
     Macros version: 6.03b
      NEPMD version: 1.24 - This is the latest version (checked on 2022-12-05 08:24:13)
   NEPMDLIB version: 1.24

NEPMD dynamic configuration
---------------------------
  Installation directory: C:\Programs\NEPMD
          User directory: C:\Programs\NEPMD\myepm
       Loader executable: C:\OS2\EPM.EXE
   Loaded EPM executable: C:\OS2\APPS\EPM.EXE

       Selected language: eng
     Initialization file: C:\Programs\NEPMD\myepm\bin\nepmd.ini
            Message file: C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\bin\nepmdeng.tmf
   Main environment file: C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\bin\EPM.env
   Add. environment file: (not found)

EPM runtime modules
-------------------
    EPM.EXE           2022-12-05 08:20:18  C:\OS2\APPS 
    ETKE603.DLL       2022-12-05 08:20:20  C:\PROGRAMS\NEPMD\MYEPM\DLL 
    ETKR603.DLL       2001-09-14 16:19:56  C:\OS2\APPS\DLL 
    ETKC603.DLL       2001-09-14 16:06:44  C:\OS2\APPS\DLL 
    ETKUCMS.DLL       2001-09-14 16:09:30  C:\OS2\APPS\DLL 
    EPMMRI.DLL        2001-09-14 16:06:24  C:\OS2\APPS\DLL  (official build, some time after 1996/04/12 17:16:58)

NEPMD runtime modules
---------------------
    EPM.EXE           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\OS2 
    NEPMDLIB.DLL      2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\PROGRAMS\NEPMD\NETLABS\DLL 
 0  epm.ex            2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 1  nepmdlib.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 2  file.ex           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 3  filelist.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 4  stdctrl.ex        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 5  modeexec.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 6  tools.ex          2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 7  mouse.ex          2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 8  menu.ex           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 9  newmenu.ex        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
10  prefspopup.ex     2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
11  keys.ex           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
12  stdkeys.ex        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
13  locate.ex         2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
14  recompile.ex      2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
15  assist.ex         2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
16  bookmark.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
17  popup.ex          2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
18  epmshell.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
19  dict.ex           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
20  encoding.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
21  subinclude.ex     2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
22  cuakeys.ex        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 

NEPMD tools    For details, see: C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\tools\tools.txt
-----------    (Place the cursor within the filename above and press Alt+1)
    md5sum.exe        2019-12-09 14:06:56  C:\usr\bin 
    lxLite.exe        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\tools 
    UNLOCK.EXE        2010-12-21 05:39:22  C:\OS2 
    grep.exe          2020-05-24 08:14:14  C:\usr\bin 
    diff.exe          (not found)   
    wget.exe          2020-01-14 10:09:26  C:\usr\bin 
    unzip.exe         2020-06-12 13:17:30  C:\usr\bin 
    uconv.exe         (not found)   
    recode.exe        (not found)   
    kdiff3.exe        (not found)   
    gfc.exe           (not found)   
    oslexam.dll       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\tools 
    WPTOOLS.DLL       2021-07-25 01:09:38  C:\sys\dll 

Regards
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 08:11:49 pm by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Andreas Schnellbacher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2022, 05:00:02 pm »
I would close all EPMs and then rename NEPMD.INI first. 'Runtime information' displays the path to it. It's in %NEPMD_USERDIR%\bin. Corrupted ini files may occur on exhausted system resources. A reboot is required then.

Note that since version 1.23 up to 10 daily generations of NEPMD.INI backups are created in %TMP%\nepmd\backup\ini. If you had 1.23 or 1.24 successfully installed before, that is something to try on corruption for to restore your settings. (It has happened here a few times.)

Andreas Schnellbacher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2022, 05:43:17 pm »
Another problem:

Martin, thanks for the 'Runtime Information' report. I've spotted that the old IBM file is still the first in PATH on ArcaOS 5.0.7. That won't work for unlocking etke603.dll, which is required for to edit it for highlighting color changes from EPM.

I've just added that to my list of bugs. (The path in your case is myepm\dll, which shows that it was successfully patched on installation. The installation calls postwpi.exe, postwpi2.cmd and then colors.erx directly.)

BTW: I don't know why ArcaOS 5.0.7 doesn't ship with Veit's version of unlock.exe, which works for both. Wasn't that already installed with a later eCS?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 05:51:00 pm by Andreas Schnellbacher »

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4710
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2022, 08:22:53 pm »
Hi Andreas

Sorry, but I didn't get it right, which should be the correct epm.exe?

Code: [Select]
[C:\]dir epm.exe /s

The volume label in drive C is ARCAOS.
The Volume Serial Number is 6CE8:A5BF.

Directory of C:\OS2

 4-02-22 10:30a        47,172     26 a---  epm.exe
        1 file(s)      47,172 bytes used

Directory of C:\OS2\APPS

12-05-22  8:20a        20,908      0 a---  EPM.EXE
        1 file(s)      20,908 bytes used

Directory of C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\bin

 4-02-22 10:30a        47,172      0 a---  epm.exe
        1 file(s)      47,172 bytes used
Total files listed:
        3 file(s)       115,252 bytes used
                    398,389,248 bytes free

There are some differences between "12-05-22  8:20a  / 20,908" and "4-02-22 10:30a /47,172" but I'm not sure what is the difference in functionality.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Andreas Schnellbacher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2022, 09:48:53 pm »
Sorry, but I didn't get it right, which should be the correct epm.exe?
The one in C:\OS2 is the correct one. It's copied on installation from NEPMD\netlabs\bin. Both are the EPM loaders. They start the EPM executable with a special environment. Additionally an EA is written, to avoid mixing it up with the EPM executable by the installer.

The original EPM executable is in C:\OS2\APPS and is still used by the loader.

The reason why we decided to copy the loader into an OS/2 path is to make loading the netlabs.org EPM even from command line. That works, because C:\OS2 usually comes before C:\OS2\APPS in PATH.

About the environment: Open an EPM shell or an OS/2 window from EPM. Compare the output of
Code: [Select]
set | grep -i epmin both the original EPM and with the extended environment. That replaces the original EPM files with the netlabs ones without physically replacing them. (The installer has created a program object: netlabs.org EPM Distribution\More EPM objects\Standard EPM.)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 10:45:10 pm by Andreas Schnellbacher »

christech

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2022, 04:37:32 am »
So what I am seeing is that 1.23 and 1.24 both have the same problem. 1.00 seems to be just fine, it loads all the way. With 1.2x I get an item in the menu bar .Untitled like it's trying to create a temp file of some kind and it's getting stuck. When I force quit the application, everything works great. I can close and reopen EPM without any issues. Weird right?

I just tried something, loading an app so that EPM wasn't the first app launched. No effect if I opened PM PRO, but if Firefox is open, EPM loads up just fine.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 04:52:31 am by christech »

Andreas Schnellbacher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2022, 11:40:12 am »
Yes, that's weird. With '.Untitled' you most likely mean the text in the title bar, not in the menu bar. I guess that the menu is completely missing.

At any rate, initialization is not completed. Another guess is that you have file or file system corruption. It should really work with a newly created NEPMD.INI in myepm\bin.

Wording: Both the standard EPM and the EPM with NEPMD macros and other files start the EPM executable. Mainly the macros are replaced in NEPMD, but both are EPMs. Please use the term 'standard EPM' if you mean EPM with standard macros.

1. Is EPM started hidden?

2. Is the menu bar missing?

3. Do you see any error message on the message line? (Eventually try that several times.)

4. With luck you can open the 'Messages' dialog. (Double click on the message line or press Ctrl+I to open EPM's 'Command' dialog and execute: messagebox) Any message there? (Something like 'Invalid argument' would be useful.)

5. Note that the standard EPM uses the same NEPMD.INI, because the OS2.INI key was changed by the NEPMD installation. You could also view the messages from there.

6. Is myepm\bin\NEPMD.INI created at all?

7. Can you reproduce that on another system or another partition?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2022, 11:43:58 am by Andreas Schnellbacher »

christech

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2022, 04:52:11 am »
EPM is starting hidden. I do see the NEPMD.ini in myepm\bin and when I delete the INI file and reopen NEPM (with Firefox open) I get a message "Toolbar "newbar" imported and activated. If Firefox is not open, EPM will not launch until I force quit and relaunch.

Here is my .NEMPD_INFO:

Code: [Select]
          netlabs.org EPM Distribution - Runtime Information
    Copyright (c) netlabs.org EPM Distribution Project 2002 - 2022
                     http://trac.netlabs.org/nepmd
      Copyright (c) IBM Corporation 1989, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996

Versions
--------
     Editor version: 6.03b
     Macros version: 6.03b
      NEPMD version: 1.24 - This is the latest version (checked on 2022-12-06 19:58:41)
   NEPMDLIB version: 1.24

NEPMD dynamic configuration
---------------------------
  Installation directory: C:\Programs\NEPMD
          User directory: C:\Programs\NEPMD\myepm
       Loader executable: C:\OS2\EPM.EXE
   Loaded EPM executable: C:\OS2\APPS\EPM.EXE

       Selected language: eng
     Initialization file: C:\Programs\NEPMD\myepm\bin\nepmd.ini
            Message file: C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\bin\nepmdeng.tmf
   Main environment file: C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\bin\EPM.env
   Add. environment file: (not found)

EPM runtime modules
-------------------
    EPM.EXE           2022-11-28 11:21:10  C:\OS2\APPS 
    ETKE603.DLL       2022-12-05 19:34:20  C:\PROGRAMS\NEPMD\MYEPM\DLL 
    ETKR603.DLL       2001-09-14 16:19:56  C:\OS2\APPS\DLL 
    ETKC603.DLL       2001-09-14 16:06:44  C:\OS2\APPS\DLL 
    ETKUCMS.DLL       2001-09-14 16:09:30  C:\OS2\APPS\DLL 
    EPMMRI.DLL        2001-09-14 16:06:24  C:\OS2\APPS\DLL  (official build, some time after 1996/04/12 17:16:58)

NEPMD runtime modules
---------------------
    EPM.EXE           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\OS2 
    NEPMDLIB.DLL      2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\PROGRAMS\NEPMD\NETLABS\DLL 
 0  epm.ex            2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 1  nepmdlib.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 2  file.ex           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 3  filelist.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 4  stdctrl.ex        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 5  modeexec.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 6  tools.ex          2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 7  mouse.ex          2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 8  menu.ex           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
 9  newmenu.ex        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
10  prefspopup.ex     2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
11  keys.ex           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
12  stdkeys.ex        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
13  locate.ex         2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
14  recompile.ex      2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
15  assist.ex         2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
16  bookmark.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
17  popup.ex          2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
18  epmshell.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
19  dict.ex           2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
20  encoding.ex       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
21  subinclude.ex     2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 
22  cuakeys.ex        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\ex 

NEPMD tools    For details, see: C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\tools\tools.txt
-----------    (Place the cursor within the filename above and press Alt+1)
    md5sum.exe        2019-12-09 14:06:56  C:\usr\bin 
    lxLite.exe        2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\tools 
    UNLOCK.EXE        2010-12-21 05:39:22  C:\OS2 
    grep.exe          2020-05-24 08:14:14  C:\usr\bin 
    diff.exe          (not found)   
    wget.exe          2020-01-14 10:09:26  C:\usr\bin 
    unzip.exe         2020-06-12 13:17:30  C:\usr\bin 
    uconv.exe         (not found)   
    recode.exe        (not found)   
    kdiff3.exe        (not found)   
    gfc.exe           (not found)   
    oslexam.dll       2022-04-02 10:30:00  C:\Programs\NEPMD\netlabs\tools 
    WPTOOLS.DLL       2021-07-25 01:09:38  C:\sys\dll 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 05:09:35 am by christech »

christech

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2022, 05:18:26 am »
I am seeing this in POPUPLOG:

Code: [Select]
12-06-2022  19:36:33  SYS3179  PID 003d  TID 0001  Slot 0033
C:\OS2\APPS\EPM.EXE
c0000096
1fb7e1d4
EAX=00086038  EBX=00086050  ECX=00000c7f  EDX=00000005
ESI=1a2174f4  EDI=00086134 
DS=0053  DSACC=d0f3  DSLIM=5fffffff 
ES=0053  ESACC=d0f3  ESLIM=5fffffff 
FS=150b  FSACC=00f3  FSLIM=00000030
GS=0000  GSACC=****  GSLIM=********
CS:EIP=005b:1fb7e1d4  CSACC=d0df  CSLIM=5fffffff
SS:ESP=0053:00085fec  SSACC=d0f3  SSLIM=5fffffff
EBP=00086024  FLG=00010202

PMMERGE.DLL 0004:0004e1d4

Dave Yeo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4786
  • Karma: +99/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2022, 05:34:34 am »
There's an exception I've never seen. What CPU do you have as it is a precision exception,
Code: [Select]
SYS3179: A program in this session encountered a problem and
cannot continue.

EXPLANATION: A loss of precision exception occurred when the result
of an operation was not exactly representable in the destination
format.  For example, the fraction 1/3 cannot be exactly represented
in binary form.  For the Intel 80386** and 80387** processors, this
corresponds to one of the class of exceptions for which the 80387
processor signals the 80386 processor to raise trap #16.

ACTION: If you purchased this program, contact the supplier of the
program.  If you are the developer of this program, refer to the
information in the register.

Or perhaps FPU control word related. Instead of Firefox, can you try with a different recent port running that uses a recent libc?

christech

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2022, 07:07:14 am »
Ok I may be into something. In a previous post it was a suggestion for disk corruption. I tried chkdsk and it says my file system is dirty. But, EPM opens up afterward. I have an i7 T15 Thinkpad. Not bad for a trash can find! I had to put a new NVMe drive in but it’s been good so far.

Dave Yeo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4786
  • Karma: +99/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2022, 08:26:42 am »
You have hyper-threading turned off?

roberto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 810
  • Karma: +3/-6
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2022, 12:36:52 pm »
Do you have a c:\BIN in your SET UNIXROOT=C:?
saludos
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 12:39:54 pm by roberto »

Lars

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1271
  • Karma: +65/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Netlabs EPMD Startup Freeze
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2022, 01:17:17 pm »
I am seeing this in POPUPLOG:

Code: [Select]
12-06-2022  19:36:33  SYS3179  PID 003d  TID 0001  Slot 0033
C:\OS2\APPS\EPM.EXE
c0000096
1fb7e1d4
EAX=00086038  EBX=00086050  ECX=00000c7f  EDX=00000005
ESI=1a2174f4  EDI=00086134 
DS=0053  DSACC=d0f3  DSLIM=5fffffff 
ES=0053  ESACC=d0f3  ESLIM=5fffffff 
FS=150b  FSACC=00f3  FSLIM=00000030
GS=0000  GSACC=****  GSLIM=********
CS:EIP=005b:1fb7e1d4  CSACC=d0df  CSLIM=5fffffff
SS:ESP=0053:00085fec  SSACC=d0f3  SSLIM=5fffffff
EBP=00086024  FLG=00010202

PMMERGE.DLL 0004:0004e1d4

This is very strange. As David pointed out, it is the Floating Point Control Word (FCW) that controls if and what floating point unit (FPU) exceptions are masked (or not) when certain floating point related problems occur.
The FCW is a global register. In order for applications to be able to use different settings, the OS will save and restore the FCW whenever you switch from one application (thread) to another application (thread).
Typically, C compilers produce code where on program start, they mask all FPU exceptions and let the application override this when it needs something different.
So, one application should NEVER influence the FPU exception masking of another application.
However, there is one case of unexpected problem and that is the use of DLLs. If an application loads a DLL, the DLL code executes as part of that application and if that DLL changes the FCW, then an FPU exception might trigger that the application did not expect.
I would conclude that it is not Firefox influencing EPM but rather EPM loading a DLL that manipulates the FCW. And I remember from some webpage I cannot find anymore that the WATCOM compiler produces DLL startup code that changes the FCW. I don't know about GCC compiler.
I think updating to all the latest libraries (libc for example) is therefore a good suggestion.

EDIT: regarding WATCOM, look here:
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.os2.programmer.misc/c/IGK-FEa-q0g/m/XG-rDTgf5WgJ
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 01:35:36 pm by Lars »