Author Topic: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks  (Read 9194 times)

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4677
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« on: December 10, 2022, 05:49:15 pm »
Hi

I don't want to discuss the performance of Warpstock 2022, ...
(ok, just one little exception, I liked a lot Alex's presentation (High-Resolution OS/2) since it always produces me a lot of illusion any improvements to the OS/2 GUI)
..., but I wanted to discuss a little bit what I talked to other OS/2 users and what was discussed sometimes between presentations.

1) Almost all the OS/2 users there with their laptops had a router plugged to the Ethernet port. A lot of discussion or which is the router they like, models, etc. So, it was obvious that there is a big need for a wifi driver for the platform.

Maybe even some people there would prefer the wifi driver before the UEFI support. Maybe this is a good example of the "Important" vs "Urgent" necessities. UEFI is important and focus on a long term support strategy, and wifi is urgent and what user requires today.  And Wifi seems to be more required for individual non commercial users, while I don't see the need for commercial and industrial OS/2 equipment for wifi at the moment.  Sorry to make the comparison, but now that UEFI support is almost ready on ArcaOS 5.1, the necessity focus on wifi drivers.

2) The GUI and High Resolutions.
- A need that jumped out from this presentation was that we need to make bigger icons for xCenter. The xCenter size can be increased by the icons there remains small. It may not very difficult to make it but we need a developer to tweak the xCenter code and turn it into a reality.
- The need to improve the size of fonts in one shot (a centralized GUI) for high resolutions was covered by Alex on his presentation, and I hope to see a release of his software for it next year.

3) The dream of the 64 bit kernel
It remained as a lunch conversation, but a solution it is always time consuming, hard, and there are so many different ways to theorize the solution, but all are out of reach because of the cost of making a 64bits kernel with full OS/2 compatibility.

4) The New Browser
- The expectation for the new browser is still there. OS/2 user wants to surf the internet and visit modern sites without issues.
- The extra thing on this subject is that there is also a need for "password saving" tool, and good bookmark tool too.


I was not able to talk to everybody at Warpstock, but I just wanted to share some remarks that adds more things to our "Platform Santa's List".

Feel free to comment and add any other remark that I may missed from Warpstock 2022.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Rich Walsh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • ONU! (OS/2 is NOT Unix!)
    • View Profile
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2022, 10:02:15 pm »
2) The GUI and High Resolutions.
- A need that jumped out from this presentation was that we need to make bigger icons for xCenter. The xCenter size can be increased by the icons there remains small. It may not very difficult to make it but we need a developer to tweak the xCenter code and turn it into a reality.

Have you considered talking to XWP's current maintainer about it?

As it happens, it's already on my agenda because...

Quote
- The need to improve the size of fonts in one shot (a centralized GUI) for high resolutions was covered by Alex on his presentation, and I hope to see a release of his software for it next year.

I'm working with Alex on this because there's more to  getting fonts changed than a centralized GUI (though it's obviously needed). There's the matter of getting stuff to pay attention to those settings - most notably, XWP. That's why I've spent the last week  ensuring that it's next release will be 100% "font-compliant" and will honor those settings rather than always using 9.WarpSans. I've also updated DTProgram and some other WPS add-ons.

Anyway, implementing full-sized icons in XCenter as part of expanded support for higher resolutions is an obvious enhancement that will happen if at all possible. OTOH, PNG support is highly unlikely (would be nice, but...)

Roderick Klein

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 652
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2022, 03:32:10 pm »
While everybody would have wanted new wireless drivers years ago, the wireless driver development has had setbacks not encountered with other drivers.


This whole venture started with Nickk porting the Linux ethernet driver for Nvidia ethernet chipsets to OS/2.
That was a success. Later this work was picked up by Mensys and ported the E1000 driver to OS/2 and Realtek 1 Gigabit chipset driver.
Work was then performed by David to port the first wireless driver from Linux to OS/2. The first issue is that wireless drivers are way, way, way more complicated then ethernet drivers. A library was written to support all the Linux kernel calls. A lot of time invested in this porting venture but was broken by changes in the Linux kernel. I forgot what these changes where. But it resulted in the wireless drivers being ported from Linux to longer be possible. However David got fer far.

As you know AN switched to using FreeBSD sources to compile NIC drivers on OS/2 a few years ago. And work to port FreeBSD wireless drivers went from there.
From what I understood the FreeBSD kernel made kernel changes that made porting the drivers not possible or at least more difficult.  As Lewis mentioned from Arca Noae at Warpstock in Orlando that David is still working on wireless drivers.

The bottom line is yes we all want wifi drivers. But we could have been there already if it was not for the unforseen setbacks.
UEFI support was coming for more then 10 years. And Intel announced that on 1st of January 2020 CSM support would be withdrawn by Intel.
So its all difficult choices to make...

Roderick

Neil Waldhauer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1020
  • Karma: +24/-0
    • View Profile
    • Blonde Guy
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2022, 04:28:38 pm »
I wrote about Travel Routers on ArcaOS in 2021.

http://www.blondeguy.com/TravelRouters.html

Since then, GL.iNet software in my preferred routers has worked intermittently due to lack of support for Firefox 45. Current browsers, including dooble, seem to work fine with all versions of GL.iNet. One attendee at Warpstock used his phone to tell the router to provide service to his laptop.
Expert consulting for ArcaOS, OS/2 and eComStation
http://www.blondeguy.com

Sigurd Fastenrath

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
  • Karma: +27/-0
  • OS/2 Versus Hardware - Maximum Warp!
    • View Profile
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2022, 02:18:12 pm »

UEFI support was coming for more then 10 years. And Intel announced that on 1st of January 2020 CSM support would be withdrawn by Intel.
So its all difficult choices to make...

Roderick

While there is still a very large amount of hardware that allows installation in the CSM, there have been no new OS/2 WLAN drivers for almost exactly 15 years.

As uninteresting as it may be for industrial customers, this has ultimately been the nail in the coffin for many private users for OS/2 use.

Unfortunately, "It's high on our list, but..." or "Priorities have shifted for the umpteenth time..." were also very counterproductive. It's the same as always: there are lengthy explanations but in the end only facts count: no WLAN for 15 years, it's that simple.


Neil Waldhauer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1020
  • Karma: +24/-0
    • View Profile
    • Blonde Guy
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2022, 05:01:28 pm »
I want to comment on the new browser and bookmarks. I listened to the comments at Warpstock. I kind of want an OS/2-like solution to bookmarks.

Back in Web Explorer days, bookmarks used to be a folder on the desktop, and the URL objects in these folders could have parameters like which browser to use. I think this would be an adequate solution to bookmarks on the new browser, particularly if you could drag URL objects to the browser and drag browser tabs to create or update a URL object.

Expert consulting for ArcaOS, OS/2 and eComStation
http://www.blondeguy.com

Jan-Erik Lärka

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 275
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2022, 10:33:27 pm »

UEFI support was coming for more then 10 years. And Intel announced that on 1st of January 2020 CSM support would be withdrawn by Intel.
So its all difficult choices to make...

Roderick
One use whatever, when there's a way one can find a workable solution with minimum effort. It's however not possible to buy a current computer here without uefi and gpt, so that is something to address here and now. CSM is a transition phase that OS/2-ArcaOS need to overcome or we're stuck with spare-parts-machines.

While there is still a very large amount of hardware that allows installation in the CSM, there have been no new OS/2 WLAN drivers for almost exactly 15 years.
Blonde Guy presented a neat universal solution on his page with the external WiFi that use ethernet where we do have support combined with configuration through the web browser or curl. Ok, it use something external, but it seem quite usable. I've asked the local dealers for some "mango" but may have to order one directly from the states. Need to get a new laptop soon, as the left shift key fail now and then, so...

As uninteresting as it may be for industrial customers, this has ultimately been the nail in the coffin for many private users for OS/2 use.
Isn't it more likely the die hard enthusiasts that use OS/2-ArcaOS these days and not "Industrial customers"? Do look forward to the update to Dynamic Icons, xCenter/XWP, high resolution support (as mini icons tend to be tiny on modern screens) updated web browser and ooRexx 5.0. Appreciate such usability enhancements as a user while others want something else more important to them.

I'd therefore like to take the opportunity to

Thank you to everyone for your participation and work on OS/2, eComStation and ArcaOS. You are greatly appreciated!

Unfortunately, "It's high on our list, but..." or "Priorities have shifted for the umpteenth time..." were also very counterproductive. It's the same as always: there are lengthy explanations but in the end only facts count: no WLAN for 15 years, it's that simple.
Can imagine that developing the framework/infrastructure for such a set of driver must be significant. I can't see, quantify and thus not compare that required effort as to what it has been used for instead, and perhaps that's what some would like: To be able to compare themselves and prioritize, but that is possible when you have the some money already and the info tied to it. It can be frustrating when someone else got a broader perspective and info that may not be available to all.

David McKenna

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
  • Karma: +24/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2022, 10:43:25 pm »
 Hey Neil,

  That's a great idea about a bookmark folder! I decided to create a URL folder for bookmarks and use the 'Computer -> Templates -> Internet Templates -> URL' template to create web objects. You have to type the URL manually, but at least it is a way to maintain bookmarks. Would be great if you could D&D a URL to a folder and it was automatic - wonder if DragText could help here. You can also copy a URL from dooble to the clipboard, then paste that into a URL folder and you get a dialog to name it and define the class (WPURL). One issue using dooble is that every time you double click a URL object, a new window is opened and I don't see any setting to open new URL's in a new tab - maybe that could be added to dooble? Thanks for the nudge!

Regards,

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4677
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2022, 02:25:49 pm »
Have you considered talking to XWP's current maintainer about it?

As it happens, it's already on my agenda because...

Hi Rich.

If it is on already on your agenda that is great. I was just listing what I remember we discussed at Warpstock as extra things outside of the video stream.
You are XWP's current maintainer, right? Do you want me to post this request on the XWP SVN ticket system?

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Dave Yeo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4761
  • Karma: +98/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2022, 03:39:56 am »
For bookmarks, it would be nice to get the OpenWith extension working on our platform. Use Firefox/SeaMonkey until a page doesn't work and right click the URL and open it with Dooble, the SimpleBrowser etc. I tried hacking on it but couldn't do more then navigate to @unixroot\usr\bin.

As for using WPS folders and URL objects, I wonder how it would scale, I have 1226 lines in bookmarks.html and most, well over half, are URL's. Our ini files do get weird if too big and I understand objects are stored in EA's and the ini files

roberto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
  • Karma: +3/-6
    • View Profile
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2022, 02:23:51 pm »
I don't know if I understand what you want to do, but to read the Bookmars of Seamonquey, I export to the cups folder, \usr \ share \ cups \ www \ BOOKMARKSROB2022.HTML
Just pay attention to capital and minuscules

Then from Dooble, I open it with
http://localhost631/help
and rename to
http://localhost:631/bookmarksrob2022.html

My main problem with Dooble, is that I have to authenticate as a user on EBAY, in Google, on YouTube, and every page that I open new, I have to do it again, and it is torture. Do you have any solution for this?
Saludos
« Last Edit: December 18, 2022, 05:10:03 pm by roberto »

Lars

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Karma: +65/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2022, 02:34:48 pm »
For bookmarks, it would be nice to get the OpenWith extension working on our platform. Use Firefox/SeaMonkey until a page doesn't work and right click the URL and open it with Dooble, the SimpleBrowser etc. I tried hacking on it but couldn't do more then navigate to @unixroot\usr\bin.

As for using WPS folders and URL objects, I wonder how it would scale, I have 1226 lines in bookmarks.html and most, well over half, are URL's. Our ini files do get weird if too big and I understand objects are stored in EA's and the ini files

"WPUrl" class is derived from "WPDataFile". Which means, these are real files with additional info saved in those files' EAs.
So, no need to worry that anything will flood the INI files (OS2.INI, OS2SYS.INI). At least not the WPUrl Objects ...

Martin Iturbide

  • OS2World NewsMaster
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4677
  • Karma: +41/-1
  • Your Friend Wil Declares...
    • View Profile
    • Martin's Personal Blog
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2022, 02:35:23 pm »
Hi guys

Do you think it will be good to provide a suggestion to the Dooble original author to include a  "Password Management Tool" on Dooble?
I think we should give it a try and provide the author some feedback.
Are there any suggestion for it that I can include on the ticket?

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.

Dave Yeo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4761
  • Karma: +98/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Warpstock 2022 - Personal Remarks
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2022, 05:18:04 pm »
I don't know if I understand what you want to do, but to read the Bookmars of Seamonquey, I export to the cups folder, \usr \ share \ cups \ www \ BOOKMARKSROB2022.HTML
Just pay attention to capital and minuscules

Then from Dooble, I open it with
http://localhost631/help
and rename to
http://localhost:631/bookmarksrob2022.html

My main problem with Dooble, is that I have to authenticate as a user on EBAY, in Google, on YouTube, and every page that I open new, I have to do it again, and it is torture. Do you have any solution for this?
Saludos

Allow more cookies? In settings under Privacy, try changing the Cookie Policy to "Save Persistent Only" or "Save All".
"Save Persistant Only" seems good enough to save some login details here.