Author Topic: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked  (Read 10753 times)

voidstar

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I recently got ArcaOS.   Here are some notes of three systems that I tried it on while trying to find some hardware that would work with it:


***********************************************************
I tried a Gateway Solo Pentium III with 288MB RAM (system from about 1998)

  EDIT: Got this working by taking the install from the Precision M60 and mirroring it over to another 2.5" drive for this Gateway system (i.e. Gateway Solo hardware works with ArcaOS, only issue is the system can't boot from a DVD).

  I can use CD-ROM to boot GPARTED,  [ confirm CD-ROM is working ]

  but I can't use DVD-R disc to boot ArcaOS    [ drive on the side is labeled "DVD" etched in the plastic, so not a CD-ROM drive-only issue ]

  Can't get USB boot working (BIOS only offers ATAPI Removeable media, perhaps it means the PCMCIA card slot?)

  The system has 2x USB slots on the side - I also tried an external USB-DVD drive to boot ArcaOS, but that didn't work either. 
     Perhaps I need the docking station, and the side-mounted USB are strictly only for keyboard and mouse?  (1.1 stuff?)


***********************************************************
I tried a Dell Precision M60 (circa 2002, Pentium M, 1GB RAM)
  Boot GPARTED CD, deleted ALL partitions  (80GB old PATA drive)
  System has F12 Boot Menu, selected USB Device
  Booted ArcaOS from USB 2GB thumbdrive
  Made 20GB Startable partition (JFS)
  ArcaOS install went to 100%   [ system beeped at 3% and 47%, not sure why ]
  Reboot worked, ArcaOS loaded from HDD (and audio worked!)
  Haven't tested networking yet - but excited to be able to try some OS/2 again!

*********************************************************
I tried a Shuttle XPS with Pentium E2180 CPU with 4GB RAM, 1TB SATA SSD  (circa 2007 system)
  [ the Shuttle XPS is some integrated IPS heatsink thing for the CPU, small motherboard - think a bit
    smaller or more narrow than ATX; motherboard also has floppy disk (1x), PATA/IDE, and 2x SATA ]

  Set drive to Large in the BIOS

  Booted GPARTED, deleted ALL partitions.  Saved that (F2).

  Couldn't boot USB (tried two different 2GB thumbsticks). 
    BIOS only has boot options for USB-FDD, USB-CDROM, USB-ZIP
    none of these USB-XXX options allowed me USB boot (tried both front and rear ports)

  Booted ArcaOS from a DVD+R media disc, was able to complete the install !
    but then ArcaOS doesn't start from hard drive  :(

  EDIT: Got this working by using "System | Boot Menu | Install/Update" to install the AIRBoot to the system partition.

  Tried 110GB JFS partition (install went to 100%, but after reboot got nada - just blinking cursor)
  Tried 110GB HPFS partition (it said format complete, but then install copy sat at 0% for over 30min)

  [ I tried 110GB just to keep it under 128GB partition ...  I also tried a smaller 8GB partition, same result  ]


-------------------------------

Is it possible to make a CD-ROM install of ArcaOS ?  (sorry brand new here - didn't search yet )

Amazon has some cheap CompactFlash to PCMCIA adapters, maybe I'll see if one of those works as an ATAPI removeable disk on the Pentium III system?


« Last Edit: March 15, 2023, 06:45:20 pm by voidstar »

Dave Yeo

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2023, 05:16:25 am »
Hi voldstar, welcome. I wonder if you have a good DVD and the ISO correctly written? Your first PIII should have got further with the DVD boot. Even the USB DVD should have worked.
You can't have a 110 GB HPFS partition, it's limited to 64GB (in practice closer to 60GB and chkdsk takes forever), the JFS install should have worked. Almost sounds like something went wrong with the partitioning. Without seeing the install logs it's hard to say. Perhaps boot to the maintenance desktop from the DVD and run diskutil.
Can't do a CDRom install, the ISO is just too big.

Doug Bissett

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2023, 05:31:11 am »
Quote
I tried a Gateway Solo Pentium III with 288MB RAM (system from about 1998)
  I can use CD-ROM to boot GPARTED,  [ confirm CD-ROM is working ]
  but I can't use DVD-R disc to boot ArcaOS    [ drive on the side is labeled "DVD" etched in the plastic, so not a CD-ROM drive-only issue ]
  Can't get USB boot working (BIOS only offers ATAPI Removeable media, perhaps it means the PCMCIA card slot?)
  The system has 2x USB slots on the side - I also tried an external USB-DVD drive to boot ArcaOS, but that didn't work either

That machine should work (I seem to recall that Gateway did not make very good machines, so it may not), but will be pretty much useless (not enough memory). If the drive really is a DVD drive, it should boot, IF the machine is smart enough to do it. My similar vintage IBM ThinkPad A22e (with 256 MB memory, and DVD RW drive) installs ArcaOS, with no trouble. A few years ago, I tried to run the current Firefox (probably around version 20, at that time). It took 20 minutes to get to a blank home page. Forget PCMCIA, it is far more trouble than it is worth. ATAPI removeable probably means CD, or DVD. USB should also work, but it seems that the machine is not smart enough to boot from USB. You need to determine if the drive really is a DVD drive, and that it works properly.

Quote
I tried a Dell Precision M60 (circa 2001/2002)
  Boot GPARTED CD, deleted ALL partitions  (80GB old PATA drive)
  System has F12 Boot Menu, selected USB Device
  Booted ArcaOS from USB 2GB thumbdrive
  Made 20GB Startable partition (JFS)
  ArcaOS install went to 100%   [ system beeped at 3% and 47%, not sure why ]
  Reboot worked, ArcaOS loaded from HDD (and audio worked!)
  Haven't tested networking yet - but excited to be able to try some OS/2 again!

This sounds like a candidate. First thing: put the GPARTED CD out of reach. It is okay to prove that you can boot from a CD, but DO NOT EVER use anything other than the tools in ArcaOS to partition disk drives that will be used with ArcaOS.

The beeps are part of the original OS/2 installer. Ignore them.

Quote
I tried a Shuttle XPS with Pentium E2180 CPU with 4GB RAM, 1TB SATA SSD  (circa 2007 system)
  [ the Shuttle XPS is some integrated IPS heatsink thing for the CPU, small motherboard - think a bit
    smaller or more narrow than ATX; motherboard also has floppy disk (1x), PATA/IDE, and 2x SATA ]

I don't know anything about that machine. I suspect it is one of those things that need some special handling (or it just doesn't work).

For now, Learn on the DELL. You probably should do some serious reading at: https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/, and ask more questions.

Quote
Is it possible to make a CD-ROM install of ArcaOS ?  (sorry brand new here - didn't search yet )

It should be possible, but you had better know what you are doing if you want to try it. I suggest forgetting that approach.

voidstar

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2023, 11:35:32 am »
I wonder if you have a good DVD and the ISO correctly written? Your first PIII should have got further with the DVD boot. Even the USB DVD should have worked.
You can't have a 110 GB HPFS partition, it's limited to 64GB (in practice closer to 60GB and chkdsk takes forever), the JFS install should have worked. Almost sounds like something went wrong with the partitioning. Without seeing the install logs it's hard to say. Perhaps boot to the maintenance desktop from the DVD and run diskutil.
Can't do a CDRom install, the ISO is just too big.

Regarding the Gateway PIII system:

- I just tried using a factory fresh media of Windows 7 32-bit and also Windows 98, and those didn't boot either.  Is there some difference with DVD-ROM drives? IIRC, DVD-R is older than DVD+R, so the media I've been using is DVD-R (although, 10+ year old media at that).   But again, I'm having issues with "factory fresh" so looks like the hardware is having issue.

- I've been using Puppy Linux on that PIII system.  I tried getting Firefox to work, but gave up -- I recall reading somewhere that Firefox really needs 512+ MB.   PuppyLinux runs decently well and has quite a bit of features, networking worked out of the box, and then download Palemoon for web browsing on 256MB.

EDIT: update notes about the memory...
- I have 2x memory chips, each one has a sticker on it saying 256MB.  However, it actually says "256MB SYNC", so I'm thinking it's actually a "256MB kit" where each one is 128MB.   In any case, if I remove both memory chips, the system still boots up indicating 32MB - so it has some "hidden" internal memory somewhere.  As noted it was booting to 288MB (256 + 32).   The actual memory chips are 8x hynix HY57V561620BT-H (4x on each side).   I'm not sure how to decode hynix part numbers.   If I insert only one chip (tried both of them, individually) it boots with 128+32MB (160MB).  memtest says each chip is fine.

- In my old notes, somehow I concluded the 2x USB ports that system has on the side are only USB 1.1.  I'm not sure how I would have determined that.  The Solo 9300 manual doesn't clarify.

- Attached below is an image of the DVD-ROM from that PIII (Gateway Solo Pro 9300).    Despite it saying DVD-ROM, I've only been able to boot CD media from it.   Puppy Linux is about 388MB, and GPARTED as mentioned fits on a CD.
EDIT:  No room atm for a 300KB image attachment - but sticker says 11X/24X CD and 1.8X/4X DVD.   But also says "DVD-ROM"

- to recap, my issue on the PIII system isn't yet ArcaOS related -- I just that I can't get that system to boot from DVD or USB yet.  It does have a built in 3.5" disk drive, which I've booted MinuetOS from that.

- I have the original power supply unit, so I wouldn't think it is a power issue to the DVD drive.  Can't recall if DVD and CD use the same laser?


Bummer, would be nice to confirm if ArcaOS would otherwise work on this.   I'll have to wait till I can find a different swapable DVD drive to try.   OR, find a CD (or disk, lol) install of ArcaOS.    Meanwhile, PuppyLinux goes on this one.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 12:41:57 pm by voidstar »

voidstar

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2023, 11:47:29 am »
Quote
This sounds like a candidate. First thing: put the GPARTED CD out of reach. It is okay to prove that you can boot from a CD, but DO NOT EVER use anything other than the tools in ArcaOS to partition disk drives that will be used with ArcaOS.

Well - I fought with installing ArcaOS for quite a while on that Dell Precision M60.  ArcaOS would boot, then it would say I have to "fix" the partition on the drive -- but then that would fail, saying it couldn't fix it.     Don't have a photo, so I forget the exact wording.    The only way I could get it to go was to blast away all existing partitions using a GPARTED boot CD (it previously had Windows7 installed on the drive -- probably partitioned to use the entire drive since it's only an 80GB).  The stock ArcaOS installer wasn't giving me options to delete any existing partitions.

Indeed, I didn't use GPARTED to define any other new partitions - just left it entirely non-partitioned.  Then after that, the ArcaOS boot DVD let me use the drive (and define new startable partition).

NOTE: This is the same ArcaOS boot DVD that I was trying in the Solo laptop PIII system mentioned earlier.  So it suggest to me the media is ok.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 11:58:12 am by voidstar »

voidstar

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2023, 12:13:45 pm »
Separate reply regarding the Shuttle XPC system that I was trying also, just in case someone tries similar in the future:

Shuttle Inc XPC systems are pretty obscure - can't find any specific manuals online (the one I got was at Fry's Electronics years ago).
The motherboard is labeled FD30V10 but the system itself is SD30V10

Only reference I can find is a set of 32-bit and 64-bit drivers from Windows XP on up to Windows 10:
https://www.driverscape.com/manufacturers/shuttle/laptops-desktops/sd30v10/12902

That least gives clue to some of the chipset parts:
Intel 82801G
Intel 945G
Marvell Yukon ethernet


The only reason I keep it is because it's one of the last systems I have still with IDE (PATA 40-pin) and 3.5" 34-pin disk drive support.

It also only supports 4GB.  I tried upgrading it to 8GB a couple of times, just wouldn't go (it's a compact case with only 2 memory slots, but it just won't accept >2GB memory sticks -- or at least I couldn't find any compatibles ones, so 2x2GB is it).  Sad since the E2180 is a 64-bit processor.  But I figured with only 4GB max, it might be a good candidate to try ArcaOS 32-bit on.

And ArcaOS did install - it's just that after the final reboot, then the hard drive wouldn't boot ArcaOS (just sits at a blinking cursor).  It's a 1TB SATA SSD.  The install only worked after setting the drive to "Large" in the BIOS.   But moot anyway, the OS installs but drive won't boot.  I tried both an 8GB JFS partition and also 110GB partition.


I don't have any actual PATA/IDE drives at the moment - I'll seek one out, see if that makes a difference (would like to verify the IDE stuff is working anyway).

As another option -- shouldn't it be possible to install ArcaOS to a 2GB USB thumbstick?  So boot from the DVD, set the thumbstick as the install target?  Might try that this weekend.


Dave Yeo

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2023, 04:32:20 pm »
Seems the XPC should work, it would be interesting to see the testlog from the system.
Boot the install DVD, at the beginning of the install drop into the maintenance desktop, open a cmd prompt and do "testlog generic" without the quotes, copy the testlog from Z:\var\temp (IIRC, it says where it is) to a USB stick.
As for installing to a USB stick, the USB drivers only load late during the boot, so no way for the kernel to read the USB stick to boot. It is why the installer creates a ramdisk to run OS/2 from for the install.

Doug Bissett

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2023, 07:01:13 pm »
What Dave said...

quote]Well - I fought with installing ArcaOS for quite a while on that Dell Precision M60.  ArcaOS would boot, then it would say I have to "fix" the partition on the drive -- but then that would fail, saying it couldn't fix it.     Don't have a photo, so I forget the exact wording.    The only way I could get it to go was to blast away all existing partitions using a GPARTED boot CD (it previously had Windows7 installed on the drive -- probably partitioned to use the entire drive since it's only an 80GB).  The stock ArcaOS installer wasn't giving me options to delete any existing partitions.[/quote]

The "fix" thing indicates that you have not properly partitioned the drive. READ the appropriate information at the Arca Noae wiki (link posted earlier). You do need to create properly aligned partitions (done by using MiniLVM). There are tools (based on DFSEE) to handle various disk problems.

Dave Yeo

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2023, 07:34:59 pm »
Gparted should be fine for wiping the beginning of the disk. In CHS mode, it can almost partition in an OS/2 friendly way.

Rich Walsh

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2023, 10:09:28 pm »
  Couldn't boot USB (tried two different 2GB thumbsticks). 
    BIOS only has boot options for USB-FDD, USB-CDROM, USB-ZIP
    none of these USB-XXX options allowed me USB boot (tried both front and rear ports)

I wrote a lot of the USB boot stuff ("AOSBoot"), so let me offer some insights...

AOSBoot will only work on machines that support USB Mass Storage (USB-MSD). Ideally, the USB stick will just be listed as another hard drive - there usually isn't an explicit USB-MSD option.  Some BIOSs in that transitional period didn't provide full mass-storage support but could navigate a partition table then boot the partition in the first slot as a large floppy. In this case, you'd select the "USB Removable"  option (e.g. "USB-ZIP").

No effort was made to support unpartitioned media (i.e. "large floppy" mode) because any system that was too old to provide USB-MSD probably wouldn't perform very well (or at all in the case of a browser). Still, I think it _may_ be possible if you have a 2gb stick (I can't test this myself because I burned up all my 2gb's years ago). Let me know if you're insterested.

Quote
  Booted ArcaOS from a DVD+R media disc, was able to complete the install !
    but then ArcaOS doesn't start from hard drive  :(

Did you install to a primary partition or to a logical? If a logical, OS/2 will not boot to it without the help of a compatible boot manager, i.e. "AirBoot".  Even if you used a primary and called it 'C:' there are still good reasons to install it. Since it replaces the boot-sector code with its own, you should get _something_ at startup if the disk is functional.  Assuming its menu appears, you should see your partition(s) listed - if not the partitioning has problems. Finally, what happens when you boot your AOS partition? Blinking cursor, error message from AIrBoot, or success?

To add AirBoot, boot from the DVD to the installer, then select the System Management button in the lower right. On the next screen, under 'Disk' select 'MiniLVM' (I'm working from memory here). When that opens, select System->BootMenu->Install/Update. Finally, shut down, reboot, hope...

voidstar

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2023, 05:26:51 am »
Seems the XPC should work

Thank you all for the suggestions - AirBoot suggestion did get ArcaOS working on the Shuttle XPC system.

The steps using 5.0 that I did are:
------
(boot from ArcaOS DVD)
click Manage Volumes...
(no partitions, "blank drive)
953,855 MB "Free Space"
Right Click, Create volume...
Standard (bootable) volume
Specified 48000 MB, Use primary partition  (was automatically set as Startable)

System | Boot Menu | Install/Update
(save changes)
Format As: JFS   (C: UNKNOWN 46.88 GB)
(defaults)
Next
(defaults)
Next
GenMac Wrapper Marvell Yukon 88E8001
Next, Next, Next...

[rebooted, picked boot from hard drive -- AIR boot -- installed resume]
------

At DVD install completed, rebooted again (without DVD) and ArcaOS was booting from this SATA drive just fine.
(networking didn't work, but will try again later this weekend when more time)


Didn't mess with the install log after that.  The AIR booter was installed and worked fine.   Could also use the AIR booter to boot to a USB thumbdrive.

Two down, one more to go :)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 05:58:31 am by voidstar »

Dave Yeo

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2023, 05:42:20 am »
Good to hear. Your Gateway might be happier with legacy instead of ACPI system. I think on the first page of the options.

voidstar

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2023, 11:55:41 am »
I got the Gateway Solo with 288MB of RAM to work!! (i.e. it booted ArcaOS)

I'll try to get more details on exactly which model of Solo it is (I just know it is a Pentium III based model).  Sound even worked "out of the box".

I may start on a new thread to describe the details - the main point here is, the hardware supports it.

While this Gateway Solo has an optical drive that is labeled as DVD -- for whatever reason, it wouldn't boot to the ArcaOS DVD (nor the Windows DVD).  But it would boot to a CD (e.g. Win7 mini or Puppy Linux).   Which is odd - I did even try cleaning the laser lens.   I searched eBay and places for a replacement DVD drive, but didn't come across any that looked compatible (as far as what the bays socket looks like and the photos I was able to see -- even though they said "Gateway Solo DVD", there are a variety of sub-models).

Also since then, the floppy drive on this Solo has also stopped working.  I used to be able to boot to MinuetOS (a 3.5" 1.44mb OS), but that stopped working on this Solo (but that same MinuetOS 3.5" disk worked in another system, so it's not the disk).


ANYWAY - the general gist of how I got this to work:  recall ArcaOS was working for me fine on the Dell Precision M60.

So all I did was use Malcrium Reflect to image the ArcaOS used on the Dell Precision M60 to a new 2.5" drive.  i.e. made a backup since I didn't want to risk corrupting the drive used in the Precision M60.   The hard part, though, was I had to use a 3rd machine that still supported IDE PATA drives -- and luckily I have another Win10 box on some old 2007 hardware with one other motherboard that I still which has support for a single floppy and IDE PATA drives.  So I used that as the system to run Malcrium Reflect, with a 2.5" to 3.5" IDE adapter -- made a RAW image of the 15GB ArcaOS partition.  NOTE: this took 4 hours for 15GB partition, stupid slow.

The new drive is actually an M.2 solid state inserted into a 2.5" IDE adapter (silly, I know-- but it's what I had and I really try to avoid using mechanical spinner drives anymore).  Before Malcrium Reflect would let me Restore to that drive, I had to initialize it in Windows Computer Manager tool (normal part of Control Panel, at least on Pro versions of Win10), but I didn't assign a drive letter or format the drive.  Malcrium then let me pick it as a Restore destination.  This was only like 20-30min, if even that.


Put the M.2 w/ 2.5" IDE adapter into the Gateway Solo with the restored ArcaOS.... And, it booted!    There was a long pause during the boot, I thought maybe it had locked up or failed, but the cursor was still blinking.  It felt like maybe 2 minutes, but maybe it wasn't that long.  Anyway, it continued, and the OS GUI came up, sound worked.  Didn't try networking or much else, had to get going for the day.

There were a couple issues:
#1) during the boot it said
MDFS32 NEtDrive for OS/2 File System Drive (Large Files), V3.028
SYS1201: The device driver C:\IBMCOM\MACS\MMBGE.OS2 specified in statement
on line 130 of the CONFIG.SYS file was not initialized.  Line 130 is ignored.

(then the long delay was after pressing Enter to continue)

#2) The screen video was readable, but awful looking.  I assume that'll be a fairly minor issue to address when I get more time later in the week.  Like I said, audio worked fine, and I was excited just to get this far.


Long story short is:  if the Gateway Solo's DVD drive *had* been working, ArcaOS would have installed on it like a champ.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2023, 11:59:56 am by voidstar »

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2023, 02:33:28 pm »
While a system like Gateway Solo can't run the ArcaOS installation media, it can run eComStation 2.1 installation media.

This is a trade-off. Systems as old or older may really be better off with eComStation 2.1. (The eComStation 2.2 beta is DVD based, so ArcaOS is a better choice.)

It would be an interesting exercise to put the ArcaOS installer on a diet and get it to fit on a CD.

I have a Dell GX-240 with the same limitations as the Gateway Solo.
Expert consulting for ArcaOS, OS/2 and eComStation
http://www.blondeguy.com

voidstar

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Re: Tested three systems with ArcaOS ('98, '01, '07), one of them worked
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2023, 06:39:02 pm »
It's super weird since now that ArcaOS is running on that Gateway Solo - I can insert DVD's and read them.   Like I have Cygwin media on a DVD that's 4GB - I copied those over to the ArcaOS drive.    And opened the zip archive to make sure it can really read the data on there.


So that's a new situation to me - that it can read DVD's but just can't boot to one.


But yes, I agree, making a CD distribution of ArcaOS might help open it up to a broader set of late 1990's era systems.