Author Topic: OS/2 ... Working Today, and most likely, Working Tomorrow  (Read 15886 times)

Andi B.

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Re: OS/2 ... Working Today, and most likely, Working Tomorrow
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2023, 07:42:57 pm »
Quote
-  I want access to a modern Firefox, and I don't want to boot into Linux to get it. At the same time, I don't want to lose access to ArcaOS (by booting into Linux).
You would not lose your OS/2 data cause Linux can read your JFS partitions very well.

But he, when I'm on Linux then my FF and Seamonkey (email) profile and all my other data (documents, passwords, program sources) is on Linux host too. There's no sense anymore to store them in a virtualized guest system.

Quote
Follow with me now ...
1. *Boot* one Host-OS, minimally configured ... never touch it again.

The key is the Host-OS. What is your Host-OS? Do you think there is any host OS which your really can 'never touch again'? And when you have a host OS, even a crippled one, then you have to master this host OS. And live with the host OS. Live with the host OSes quirks and problems. Have to keep them running and maybe install security updates there. Have to backup the host OS itself in case of ....

Example - for me the host OS never can be any Win cause I can't trust this OS. So the host have to be some flavor of Linux. FreeBSD, OpenSuse, Manjaro, Ubuntu, ... name it. It does not care. If I have a host OS which I have to know how to save, manage and backup my productive data, there's not much need anymore to produce any new data in a virtualized guest. There are tons of programs running native on Linux which will do my jobs similar or better than I do it on OS/2. But I've to live with the host OS crippled user interface (compared to the WPS) and with all the things you've to configure in some conf files in Linux.

Remember I know the benefits of VMs. But I don't see any advantage on running OS/2 as guest. If I change my main OS to some Linux then there will be no need anymore start OS/2 - ArcaOS. F.i. when I change my current file/mail/svn/web/.... server from OS/2 to Linux then a lot of things probably will work more smoothly as they do now. Given I ever invest the time to learn how to setup all this stuff on Linux.

For what do YOU need ArcaOS running in a VM?

JTA

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Re: OS/2 ... Working Today, and most likely, Working Tomorrow
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2023, 09:56:16 pm »
Great ... many of the items on your list are validation that others are doing this, and solving problems with it. So, it should work, to varying degrees depending on someone's hardware and software choices, in their environment.

It really doesn't matter what you are doing with your vm's, only that it is working for you.

For me, I've got a standard PC (diy), i7 8 cores, 32gb ram, ssd's ... win host-os,
multiple ArcaOS & Warp vm's (productivity), win vm (productivity), win & linux vm's for testing purposes (these come and go, depending on need). I've got RETRO vm's (not os/2, as these are productivity).

My win host-os is stripped down, telemetry & updates off, and is there to launch either workstation pro or virtualbox. Staging holds the dataset for all the vm's. Synology holds master copies, backups.

If I can't do something in ArcaOS or Warp, I pop the other window(s) open, and do it there. It doesn't really matter what I do with it, only that it works.

And, if it works for many of us, then it's viable for all, constraints aside.

Roderick Klein

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Re: OS/2 ... Working Today, and most likely, Working Tomorrow
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2023, 10:56:11 pm »
Quote
-  I want access to a modern Firefox, and I don't want to boot into Linux to get it. At the same time, I don't want to lose access to ArcaOS (by booting into Linux).
You would not lose your OS/2 data cause Linux can read your JFS partitions very well.

But he, when I'm on Linux then my FF and Seamonkey (email) profile and all my other data (documents, passwords, program sources) is on Linux host too. There's no sense anymore to store them in a virtualized guest system.

Quote
Follow with me now ...
1. *Boot* one Host-OS, minimally configured ... never touch it again.

The key is the Host-OS. What is your Host-OS? Do you think there is any host OS which your really can 'never touch again'? And when you have a host OS, even a crippled one, then you have to master this host OS. And live with the host OS. Live with the host OSes quirks and problems. Have to keep them running and maybe install security updates there. Have to backup the host OS itself in case of ....

Example - for me the host OS never can be any Win cause I can't trust this OS. So the host have to be some flavor of Linux. FreeBSD, OpenSuse, Manjaro, Ubuntu, ... name it. It does not care. If I have a host OS which I have to know how to save, manage and backup my productive data, there's not much need anymore to produce any new data in a virtualized guest. There are tons of programs running native on Linux which will do my jobs similar or better than I do it on OS/2. But I've to live with the host OS crippled user interface (compared to the WPS) and with all the things you've to configure in some conf files in Linux.

Remember I know the benefits of VMs. But I don't see any advantage on running OS/2 as guest. If I change my main OS to some Linux then there will be no need anymore start OS/2 - ArcaOS. F.i. when I change my current file/mail/svn/web/.... server from OS/2 to Linux then a lot of things probably will work more smoothly as they do now. Given I ever invest the time to learn how to setup all this stuff on Linux.

For what do YOU need ArcaOS running in a VM?

eComStation and best I can tell ArcaOS have an contract with IBM and the EULA of IBM is leading. The EULA requires you for installation to have a license.
So you can not install ArcaOS from a legal perspective if you buy one license.

Roderick

JTA

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Re: OS/2 ... Working Today, and most likely, Working Tomorrow
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2023, 12:18:21 am »
Agreed ... when you've figured out what it is you're *going to do* (say, end up with three ArcaOS "seats", for whatever reason), usually after some round of testing, then you can run through an exercise to figure out how to get licensed for that.

In my case, I envision two seats of ArcaOS needed in my lab environment. I've already licensed one (commercial), and that enabled testing to complete, and if I use ArcaOS as the other seat (as opposed to Warp 4.x with a device driver subscription license), then I'll add the appropriate (non-commercial version, slightly less expensive) ArcaOS license.

Same thing for Windows, in a virtualized environment, although there due to testing needs, I use a Microsoft "action pack" kind of license, which gives me numerous yearly licenses for MS products.

Same for VMware, where I use a VMUG license, which gives me numerous yearly licenses for VMware products.

BTW, does anyone know if OS/2 Warp (4.52) can be used in any form ... has it passed into something like "abandonware"? I have a boxed set of Warp, just don't know what additional "seats" acquisition would look like.

Thanks all ...

Andi B.

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Re: OS/2 ... Working Today, and most likely, Working Tomorrow
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2023, 12:44:23 pm »
eComStation and best I can tell ArcaOS have an contract with IBM and the EULA of IBM is leading. The EULA requires you for installation to have a license.
So you can not install ArcaOS from a legal perspective if you buy one license.

Roderick
I remember there was an eCS license which worded something like - you are not allowed to use your license more than once at any given time. But it was allowed f.i. to have it installed on the desktop and when traveling using it on your notebook. All from the top of my head and I may remember wrong as it's so long ago. But it's not worth to dig it out as this is OT here anyway. Or do you think I violate any of my ArcaOS or eCS or Warp licenses? Of course I'm allowed to run my eCS as guest under my ArcaOS host. But it does not make any sense for me anyway. So what's your point?

Roderick Klein

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Re: OS/2 ... Working Today, and most likely, Working Tomorrow
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2023, 12:57:37 pm »
<snipping all the original post>
You know what? What's really ironic is that OS/2 is most probably the first 32-bit operating system which actually came bundled with a virtualization environment - the VDM. One can launch theoretically as many real DOS environments in what looks really close to a sandbox, work in them, erase them if they crash, use different DOS versions (or maybe even CP/M?  ;D) and it was all already included in the system.
This, and the similarities between SOM and the recent incarnations of .NET under Windows and Linux just make me think how advanced OS/2 was at the time of its launch. An incredible feature and skill set wasted by IBM...

Mentore
eComStation and best I can tell ArcaOS have an contract with IBM and the EULA of IBM is leading. The EULA requires you for installation to have a license.
So you can not install ArcaOS from a legal perspective if you buy one license.

Roderick
I remember there was an eCS license which worded something like - you are not allowed to use your license more than once at any given time. But it was allowed f.i. to have it installed on the desktop and when traveling using it on your notebook. All from the top of my head and I may remember wrong as it's so long ago. But it's not worth to dig it out as this is OT here anyway. Or do you think I violate any of my ArcaOS or eCS or Warp licenses? Of course I'm allowed to run my eCS as guest under my ArcaOS host. But it does not make any sense for me anyway. So what's your point?

I was the person who write the eCS license text....

There is statement in there that you are allowed to use upto 3 Perosnal licenses. If you use more then 3 licenses then you need to buy a commercial license.
The issue however its worded INCORRETLY. It reads (because its worded incorrectly) that if one purchase eCS lcense (personal version) entitles you can install a copy on upto 3 devices.

Roderick

Martin Iturbide

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Re: OS/2 ... Working Today, and most likely, Working Tomorrow
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2023, 06:17:41 pm »
Ohhh, the crazy dream of an open source OS/2 came again haunting me and waking me up at night.

Fuchsia OS  (Zircon Microkernel - MIT License - Google) has "Starnix" which interprets Linux under a different kernel. "Starnix creates a compatible runtime environment by implementing the Linux UAPI."

Maybe "StarWarp" can be created to get OS/2 interpreted under a 64bits kernel. But it is too much work and impossible for a single mortal  ;D

Regards
« Last Edit: July 25, 2023, 06:23:37 pm by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
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