Author Topic: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols  (Read 18943 times)

Mark Szkolnicki

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ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« on: January 16, 2024, 08:06:33 pm »
Good Morning Guys!

That is, good if you like waking up to -41 C with an overnight low of -46 C. We had 3 months of balmy winter here in Alberta and are now paying for it - I see some of our colleagues in the states are having winter storms, so I guess we're all in it together.

However, the cold is allowing me to turn my thoughts once again to technical problem solving, after approximately one year and two months of constant emergencies, both personal and for protecting the greater public good, (you can see what that entailed in another general post of mine from December).

But I thought I'd solicit some opinions from the brain trust here, related to a problem I'm having with ArcaMapper. I already had a look at a couple of the other more Samba specific topics, but I decided to start a new one, as this problem seemed more specific to using and connecting, as opposed to the technical intricacies of the client or server itself.

I finally installed ArcaOS v5.1, and was attempting to get the current version of ArcaMapper to mount items in two ways - one with my NetGear ReadyNAS server and the other with some of my towers running dual operating systems (ArcaOS and Windows 7).

The Network Browser does see both the ReadyNAS and Windows 7 systems as separate machines and displays the partitions in the window on the right, however when I attempt to create the proper credentials and apply those to mount the item I select (ie. the credentials I successfully use accessing the resources in Windows) the credentials are not accepted.

Reading the ArcaMapper documentation (yes, some people still do that), and some general documentation related to Samba and SMB - I suspect the problem is actually related to Samba and SMB.conf - I think the NetGear ReadyNAS uses Unix based network protocols (whatever they were around 2010) while Windows 7, I think uses SMB2.1.

Reading up both on Samba and SMB.conf, generally and the help documentation provided with ArcaMapper, it looks like I may need to specify these other network protocols directly in SMB.conf - however, not knowing much about the specific workings of Samba, especially our current version(s), I'm on the normal steep technical learning curve at the moment.

I will say as background, I've never been able to successfully connect to these resources using ArcaMapper, or its previous incarnations under ArcaOS in the past - so I decided a cold winter day was the time to try to solve this problem once and for all.

I already reviewed the limited troubleshooting options in the ArcaMapper docs without success (client minimum protocol=NT1 is already present in SMB.conf). Are there any other specific statements that I should add or modify, or am I looking in the wrong direction?

Any have thoughts that will lead me to the correct path, as opposed to going over the cliff?

Best and a fine Week to all!

Mark
Vincit Que Se Vincit - "He Who Conquers Self Succeeds"

Doug Bissett

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2024, 01:08:34 am »
Quote
Good Morning Guys!

That is, good if you like waking up to -41 C with an overnight low of -46 C. We had 3 months of balmy winter here in Alberta and are now paying for it - I see some of our colleagues in the states are having winter storms, so I guess we're all in it together.

Well, it is afternoon now. That was a serious cold snap. It is still cold, but I am looking for the beach.   :)

Quote
I will say as background, I've never been able to successfully connect to these resources using ArcaMapper, or its previous incarnations under ArcaOS in the past - so I decided a cold winter day was the time to try to solve this problem once and for all.

I don't know anything about your NAS, but it should work. I have not had problems with win 7, since I told it to use the proper protocols. I have removed all but three win 7 VBox systems. I need to ask what version of win 7, since networking is a little different in different versions.

Quote
Are there any other specific statements that I should add or modify, or am I looking in the wrong direction?

If you have ever modified any of those statements, UNmodoify them, but it is more likely to be something that you are doing wrong. Trying to figure that out is probably next to impossible. There are alot of ways to mess it up.

First, realize that SAMBA server, in OS/2, is version 3.x (OLD), but it is capable of handling win 7 (I assume the NAS is a Linux box). SAMBA client is version 4.x, and it needs to be told to use older protocols (when necessary), hence the -NT parameter. -NT should not be necessary with win 7 (but leave it as default). I am not sure about your NAS. Win 7 may need to be set to stop using the older protocols, if it was previously set to use them.

But first, exactly what do you do to create the problem, and exactly what happens?

Paul Smedley

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2024, 03:12:52 am »
Quote
Are there any other specific statements that I should add or modify, or am I looking in the wrong direction?
First, realize that SAMBA server, in OS/2, is version 3.x (OLD), but it is capable of handling win 7 (I assume the NAS is a Linux box). SAMBA client is version 4.x, and it needs to be told to use older protocols (when necessary), hence the -NT parameter. -NT should not be necessary with win 7 (but leave it as default). I am not sure about your NAS. Win 7 may need to be set to stop using the older protocols, if it was previously set to use them.

Agree the Samba Server in ArcaOS is 3.x (OLD) - however I've been posted builds of a Samba 4.x server here for some time. Current build is based on Samba 4.19.4.

Doug Bissett

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2024, 04:18:48 am »
Quote
Agree the Samba Server in ArcaOS is 3.x (OLD) - however I've been posted builds of a Samba 4.x server here for some time. Current build is based on Samba 4.19.4.

IMO, Mark is not ready to try Alpha, or Beta, software. (I am not ready either, because I don't know enough about SAMBA). What we need to know, is exactly what is he doing?

I can assume that he is trying to use SAMBA CLIENT, to access his other devices (so the server would be entirely irrelevant). Obviously there is a problem there, and it is probably a setup error. Many users have missed the fact that the SAMBA CLIENT has almost caught up to the rest of the world, and they have forgotten what they did, to other servers, to get older versions of the client to work properly. Some, or all, of those things need to be undone. Win 7 is sort of a middle ground, where most, but possibly not all, parts will work with our client, and server.

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2024, 03:25:07 pm »
Both of Mark's servers are old. The new client demands more security, and perhaps the servers aren't offering it. You can reduce the client demand for security by adding this line to smb.conf

 client min protocol = NT1
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Mark Szkolnicki

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2024, 05:10:43 pm »
Heh Neil!

Both of Mark's servers are old. The new client demands more security, and perhaps the servers aren't offering it. You can reduce the client demand for security by adding this line to smb.conf

 client min protocol = NT1

Actually that was in SMB.conf by default so no joy there.

Reading generally it seems there are statements you can add related to adding specific protocols to SMB.conf, like Netbios - there were also statements about various network protocols listening on different ports - was looking to see if anyone can tell me any success stories about connecting to some of these legacy systems under ArcaMapper.

M
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roberto

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2024, 06:08:19 pm »

I've always had very good experiences with NAS drives, I've had Iomega, WD, and Synology,
I use them as a backup point, and also as a link to share files between win and Arcaos.
If the NAS drive is on an internal network, the security you have on that network will really be your problem.
Another thing is if you want to have a NAS, connected to the internet.
In this case it gets a little more complicated. But I recommend a Synology DS220j NAS.
It's easy to set up, and you can turn on the double factor of safety.
It sends you a code to your email or sms to your mobile, after  user and pass.
Keep in mind that they are usually sold without HD.
There is a mobile app, with which you can send and receive to your mobile. Or from Dooble, it works too.
The other day I did a download at 4 - 5 mb/s, in the morning, and at 2 -3mb/s in the afternoon, great.
But it will depend on the network.
In short, Arcamaper is a great application that has improved a lot, and that has always worked well for me.
Saludos

Doug Bissett

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2024, 07:46:01 pm »
Quote
Reading generally it seems there are statements you can add related to adding specific protocols to SMB.conf, like Netbios - there were also statements about various network protocols listening on different ports - was looking to see if anyone can tell me any success stories about connecting to some of these legacy systems under ArcaMapper.

Yes, there are many (mostly useless) things. You probably want to get back to the DEFAULTS, because they work most often. The defaults may need to be restored in the other devices (NAS, win 7) too.

It would help if you told us exactly what you are doing, and what the results are.

Mark Szkolnicki

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2024, 09:59:45 pm »
Quote
Reading generally it seems there are statements you can add related to adding specific protocols to SMB.conf, like Netbios - there were also statements about various network protocols listening on different ports - was looking to see if anyone can tell me any success stories about connecting to some of these legacy systems under ArcaMapper.

Yes, there are many (mostly useless) things. You probably want to get back to the DEFAULTS, because they work most often. The defaults may need to be restored in the other devices (NAS, win 7) too.

It would help if you told us exactly what you are doing, and what the results are.

Been a busy day today, as we had to pick up our daughter, in from Winnipeg, for a visit so not much time to reply today and I will be brief.

By the defaults, Doug, I'm assuming your meaning in ArcaMapper and in SMB.conf, when I've opened Network Browser - those are at the default levels, and no additions or deletions related to any of the settings.- IOW as they would be the "right out of the box" setup after installation of ArcaOS v5.1.

I think its rather obvious what I'm trying to do - namely use ArcaMapper on one machine the way I think it was intended - namely, to access other systems, to mount partitions on those systems to ArcaOS, so I can access and transfer files located there. I have used Netbios over TCPIP, and File and Print Client extensively on my network in the past to transfer and access items between ArcaOS / OS/2 systems, but those network protocols are now very old, and outdated and I have not been able to do this in the past with the type of systems I have mentioned.

I can see both the partitions present on the ReadyNAS and on one of the other computers running Windows 7 in the ArcaMapper Network Browser. When I attempt to mount a partition from either as a connection, I get the window asking for the logon credential for these systems, so the mount can occur - entering the correct user name and password on either brings up an error message about the logon credentials not being recognized.

Its about as simple as that.

M
Vincit Que Se Vincit - "He Who Conquers Self Succeeds"

Alex Taylor

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2024, 12:34:36 am »
In the New Connection dialog, select the "Options" button and try the following connection settings:
  • Enable encryption: turn OFF
  • Enable NTLMv1: turn ON

Mark Szkolnicki

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2024, 04:59:11 pm »
Hi Alex!

Long time no talk!

In the New Connection dialog, select the "Options" button and try the following connection settings:
  • Enable encryption: turn OFF
  • Enable NTLMv1: turn ON

Tried you suggestion, Sir ................. AND IT WORKED!

I should say though it worked ......... but only partially.

I now can access at Least one of the Windows machines, a portable running Windows 7 - the ReadyNAS is still not accessible for mounting and logon.

I've attached a picture showing the Network Browser, when I display the resources available on MEMORY ALPHA - I don't know where ArcaMapper gets the information but it shows it as a UNIX based system in the bottom left of the window. As it is circa 2010, but still functions perfectly, I assume that the problem may be one of two things:

1) the credentials are still not being recognized

2) something may be different related to the network protocols it recognizes

Any idea, anyone, as to what those protocols may have been?

Best!

Mark

« Last Edit: January 18, 2024, 05:02:58 pm by Mark Szkolnicki »
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roberto

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2024, 07:01:24 pm »
I now can access at Least one of the Windows machines, a portable running Windows 7 - the ReadyNAS is still not accessible for mounting and logon
Mark
Is ReadyNAS in WORKGROUP?
In all cases you can put the ip of your ReadyNAS without Workgroup, similar //IP/folder
Saludos

Paul Smedley

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2024, 09:44:38 pm »
I should say though it worked ......... but only partially.

I now can access at Least one of the Windows machines, a portable running Windows 7 - the ReadyNAS is still not accessible for mounting and logon.

You mention the NAS is circa 2010? It will be running an ancient version of Samba, and probably using an authentication mechanism that has been deprecated in Samba 4.x

It may be worth trying adding some or all of the following to smb.conf - and either rebooting, or killing and restarting ndctl.exe before re-trying:
Code: [Select]
client lanman auth = no
client min protocol = NT1
client NTLMv2 auth = no
client plaintext auth = no

Note that it's worth reading https://www.samba.org/samba/docs/current/man-html/smb.conf.5.html to understand that the impact of these switches is, in terms  of  network security.'

If all this fails,  I'd be suggesting we work through enabling debug logging for the Netdrive plugin which should show the issue -  I'm pretty confident though,  that it's a mismatch in authentication protocols due to increased security in the Samba client included in AOS.

At some point (probably Samba 5.0) all the code for support of SMB1 will be removed,  as opposed  to being deprecated.


Mark Szkolnicki

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2024, 11:03:26 pm »
Saludos to you as well Roberto

I now can access at Least one of the Windows machines, a portable running Windows 7 - the ReadyNAS is still not accessible for mounting and logon
Mark
Is ReadyNAS in WORKGROUP?
In all cases you can put the ip of your ReadyNAS without Workgroup, similar //IP/folder
Saludos

The ReadyNAS is the system listed as MEMORY ALPHA under PALNET which is the name of my Network workgroup as seen in the graphic I provided, I have it as a storage location for archiving files from all of my systems, as backup.

M
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ivan

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Re: ArcaMapper and Network Protocols
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2024, 11:15:58 pm »
Both of my NAS boxes (DNS-323 and DNS-320) are accessible from all my computers on the local network including OS/2, ArcaOS and Linux mint using the code Paul supplied on the Linux boxes.

For those that might be concerned that I am leaving the network open to the world I have it behind a TP-Link R600VPN v4 unit.