OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical > Hardware
The last nail in OS/2's coffin
Martin Iturbide:
Hello Dave, I get your points about some modern issues with Linux, but my point is that open source is better than close source.
For me open source is the good things about Linux, not the linux kernel or architecture. I think it is clear that OS/2 will not turn into Linux by turning it open source. Open source and Linux are different things, I guess that is clear.
--- Quote from: Dave Yeo on January 31, 2024, 07:41:20 am ---Consider my phone and the majority in the world. Sure I can download the source code for the Linux kernel in my phone, what can I do with it? It's not like I have root and while my particular phone has instructions for rooting, unlike many, the kernel is still locked down by being signed and interacts with binary blobs.
--- End quote ---
This is a different subject from open source. Yes and No, there are communities that provides ROMs for different phones since they have the time, source code (even with binary blogs) and skill to recompile the Android image. But here the issue is that the monokernel merge together with binary blobs drivers, even with that, the kernel source code is still available for the community.
This took me to a different topic, why there is/was Android fragmentation and you can not easily update the Android OS (being open source) in phones.
1) Manufacturer don't care about software, just selling new phones, they don't offer straight forward software update path.
2) Monokernel, having all drivers compiled within the kernel gives you an issue if you only want to update the kernel and let the drivers alone.
3) Processors in phones and tablets are not as standardized as Intel and AMD chipsets. This may be why it was easier to update Windows or OS/2 on your PC by going to the store and buying a CDROM box back in the 90's, than updating today your Android's phone.
--- Quote from: Dave Yeo on January 31, 2024, 07:41:20 am ---Also consider IBM owned RedHat, you have to sign a contract to get access to the source, including the kernel which is likely patched.
--- End quote ---
This is an issue now IBM's Redhat is becoming an bad open source citizen, finding legal tricks to do not share the source code as a the GNU GPL demands.
Since the Open Source won world wide and almost now every system has an open source base or components, the trick companies are doing is putting open source solution on the cloud, extend those applications, and since they are offered as a service they try to use that trick to don't share the source code back.
What should be the solution? Moving to a license like "GNU Affero General Public License" ? or going back to the 90's close source model ?
Even with the dirty tricks that companies are trying with Open Source today, I still prefer it over close source that will became future abandoware. Today ArcaOS uses a good quantity of open source software that had provides a lot of help. We have to endorse to have more open source replacement in OS/2, that does not means getting ArcaOS for free. ArcaOS already have the crown of the jewel drivers (ACPI, UEFI, etc), so there is not risk for them. Software development in OS/2 (the little that we have) should go from a license selling to a subscription support selling strategy.
Sorry for my passion on this subject.
Regards
Sigurd Fastenrath:
OS/2 will survive for some years to come in the industrial business.
Private Customers will "die out" due to
- their age
- the uselessness of the System to private Users
- Memory Problem, no WLAN, no Localization,
- ArcaNoae showing no interest in private users
I would guess the number of German Users decreased during the last 3 Years, as there has allways been this tiring shifts of WLAN and German Local Version, to less of 10% of what have been before.
Yes, there are some people around using it for daily business but 99,9999999% of the Users do not even know what ArcaOS is.
It is impossible to persuade someone to have even a closer look at the system, because so many things are missing.
OS/2 had its time, that ended way back in 2005. It will never get opensourced nor will there be more private users, unless a miracle happens and ArcaNoae may solve the above problems, and add Bluetooth support and and and... But as David A. told me, there is no way to solve the memory problem.
It is much easier to use a Linux for free and install and use OS/2 in a Virtualization. There it can get it's tailored hardware.
Nor will ArcaOS ever be some kind of "Retro Plattform", as there are other, much more comfortable, customizable and free Solutions around like DosBOX, ScummVM etc.
It may sound to negative for some others, but that is my point of view, I just describe the facts without emotions, it is the way it is.
Personally I will try to have more success with the Lenovo Z13 Gen 2, just for fun, just to answer my eternal question I do have with OS/2 on modern hardware: will OS/2 run on it? And even if I get the Sound, with help from Paul and others, to work, the device will still be a "Technical Demo", nothing you can reliable work with.
What I would really like to see, was an OS/2 like Interface on Top of a Linux Kernel and System, building a clone of the WPS on Linux. In my opinion the only way to keep the OS/2 feeling alive in the future. But this is unlikely to happen as well.
All the best!
Martin Iturbide:
Hi Sigurd
--- Quote from: Sigurd Fastenrath on January 31, 2024, 02:32:10 pm ---What I would really like to see, was an OS/2 like Interface on Top of a Linux Kernel and System, building a clone of the WPS on Linux. In my opinion the only way to keep the OS/2 feeling alive in the future. But this is unlikely to happen as well.
--- End quote ---
Just a similar GUI or OS/2 applications running over Linux?
Ryan C. Gordon tried that in some way that, but his goal was to run OS/2 software/games over Linux (interpreted like Wine or Odin), but he found out that cloning all the API was too much for him.
- https://github.com/icculus/2ine
Read "You have no idea how much effort went into getting this stupid white square on the screen."
- https://www.patreon.com/posts/project-2ine-16513790
He made a OS/2 application of white screen to run on Linux.
What it would be interesting it to don't got for all the API in one shot. Maybe starting only with the base CPI and see how can the rest of API (PM, SOM, WPS) can think they are still running under an OS/2 kernel. Of course, all OS/2 driver will be render useless in this kind of project.
But I'm a "hybrid kernel man" (That's part of the new masculinity ;D ), that why I dream of running the OS/2 Personality over Zircon.
Regards
Lars:
What OS/2 applications do exist where you would not find an equivalent under Linux (or Windows)?
And more importantly: what developer would bother with OS/2 development tools?
I can tell you from my own experience that this becomes an increasing problem. One version of Watcom being incompatible with the next and unfortunately picking the "official" version does not help because it is the one that is buggy.
Martin Iturbide:
Hi.
--- Quote from: Lars on February 01, 2024, 06:52:08 am ---One version of Watcom being incompatible with the next and unfortunately picking the "official" version does not help because it is the one that is buggy.
--- End quote ---
I split the "OpenWatcom Discussion" to other thread.
Regards
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