Install - screen goes blank when pmshell starts

[Pete]

Hi Doug

I think all later/current mainboards have the warning about only supporting 64 bit OS's - my B450 does but that does not stop AOS 5.1 from installing and running.


Regards

Pete

[Dave Yeo]

Hi Doug, as Pete says, the warning can be taken with a large grain of salt. Still reading your MB manual wasn't inspiring. It did hint at boot options, crappy manual didn't go into specifics, you need legacy boot if you want to enjoy your X600.
You may well have to return the MB, with ones that support legacy boot with CSM getting rare.
Testlog explained here, https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/producing-diagnostic-log-files/ scroll down to the various testlog sections. You are probably are fine with the testlog that came with 5.1. Attach it to your ticket as that is the first thing you will be asked for, I almost did but there are way more knowledgeable people to advise.

[Dariusz Piatkowski]

Doug,

...As for SNAP over Panaroma:  I am currently using a dual head/monitor setup - with a dual head kvm for switching between a Win7 machine and AOS machine (the previous one that died.)  I would like to keep the dual head setup.  Hence my fixation on SNAP.  I would be willing to buy any video card needed to run SNAP to keep the dual head setup.  But I suspect all video cards with chipsets supported by SNAP will be old enough to not have GOP/UEFI support...

Like you, I am also stuck (by choice) with the SNAP approach given my desire for multi-head config.

After all, hard to beat the 3840x1200 Desktop real-estate! 

...until perhaps someone reports that they got one of the curved giant screens working in our OS/2 bubble, and therefore we have some kind of a map re: product, connector options, Panorama config, etc.

[Andi B.]

After all, hard to beat the 3840x1200 Desktop real-estate! 

I did it a while ago and quite using SNAP and dual-head. I'm happy with my 42,5" 3840x2160 monitor and don't wanna switch back to two monitor setups although I used it more than a decade. The slightly higher DPI is not a problem for me. But yes a curved 42-46" monitor would be even better.

[Dariusz Piatkowski]

Andi,

After all, hard to beat the 3840x1200 Desktop real-estate! 

I did it a while ago and quite using SNAP and dual-head. I'm happy with my 42,5" 3840x2160 monitor and don't wanna switch back to two monitor setups although I used it more than a decade. The slightly higher DPI is not a problem for me. But yes a curved 42-46" monitor would be even better.

Alright man, "spill the beans"...what's the combo we need to consider?

1) video card
2) connectors (display, video card, cabling)
3) motherboard/CPU
4) Panorama settings

Anything else I'm forgetting?

[Dave Yeo]

Good modern video card where the BIOS supports 4K and a Display Port connector for 60 Hz, HDMI for 30 Hz. Need lots of bandwidth. See https://www.arcanoae.com/wiki/panorama/

[Doug Clark]

It is so painful being ignorant.

You were right Dave,

One other idea, can you fiddle with the PCI settings in the BIOS? Mine allows changing it from X3 to X2 or X1 or similar, slowing it down might be a workaround.

When the x600 video card is in slot 4 SNAP works correctly and is fast - see attachment one: multihead, 3840x1080.  When it is in slot 1 the WPS  Screen object shows the chipset as Vesa v 2.1 and the resolutions are limited to VGA and it is SLOW.    Apparently two of the slots support x1 and the other two don't - see attached excerpts from the manual.  And apparently x1, x4, x16 mean either the size of the connector, the number of PCIe lanes, or the speed.

When running the AOS install the video still goes blank before I get to the screen where I can pick System Management or Install.  Which I think means I can't create an install.log or test.log for AN.

You will notice from the screen shot that Win-OS/2 appears to work - although it takes 10 - 15 seconds from clicking on the icon before Program Manager shows up.  Once it is running it is fast. 

I say "appears to work" because I think something happened between AOS v 5.0 and v 5.06 that makes Win-OS/2 funky.  Funky meaning some apps freeze after being used awhile.  I was starting to try and track down what caused that when my motherboard crapped out - which set me down this path of a new machine.

If the install wont run it appears my work-around is to convert my v 5.1 legacy install from the crapped out motherboard into a UEFI install on the new machine.  BTW - getting the legacy install to boot is interesting.  It has Airboot on the hard drive.  If I touch the USB attached keyboard Airboot freezes - as in the clock count down stops and you can't move the cursor.  If I attach a keyboard to the PS/2 port on the motherboard Airboot works fine - and once AOS is up and running the USB attached keyboard works ok.

[Dave Yeo]

It seems in your case, the X1 etc is the number of lanes. I'm a little surprised you have such good results with only one lane. I guess you have a M:2 SSD so can't try the 4 lane slot, which might work and be faster.
Anyways, if you are happy with the performance, you have a satisfactory workaround.
As for the testlog, one taken from the working install is better then nothing, it will show the hardware. Probably want to use the newest testlog, http://88watts.net/dlfile.php?F=testlog- and comment on how you created it along with why. Remember it is only accurate on the first run after a boot.

[Rich Walsh]

If the install wont run it appears my work-around is to convert my v 5.1 legacy install from the crapped out motherboard into a UEFI install on the new machine.

A few months ago I posted a util to handle this. See Csm2Uefi migration tool (updated)

[Doug Clark]

Thanks Rich.  I was just about to ask whether something like this existed and I saw your post.  I need it because I think I got rid of the files in the ESP.

Update on the install.  The AN installer will run with VisonTek Radeon HD 5450 video card installed. So I installed AOS to the NVME drive (drive c:).  Then installed AOS v 5.1 on a SATA SSD installed on an old, legacy only, Asus/AMD machine with the Radeo x600 and SNAP - as drive U:

Put the x600 in the new machine, along with the SATA SSD (drive u:) to use as a maintenance partition/drive so I can boot with the x600 installed.  Then installed SNAP on the  C: drive (NVME)

As for booting in CSM(legacy) or UEFI mode
It appears the BIOS setting "Boot mode select" (UEFI or LEGACY+UEF) does not determine the mode used when booting.  All Boot mode select does is change the devices that are listed as Fixed Boot Order Priorities (see attached screen shot).  If the boot mode select = UEFI the only devices listed are those with names that begin (in the list) with UEFI.  If boot mode select = Legacy+UEFI then the whole list appears - as shown in the screen shot.

What determine whether you boot in UEFI mode or legacy mode is whether the device name begins with UEFI in the Fixed Boot Order Priorities list.  If it begins with UEFI the system boots in UEFI mode.  If the name does not begin with UEFI the system boots in legacy or CSM mode (the terms are used interchangably in the bios)

SNAP works whether it is booted in UEFI mode or legacy mode - however when booted in UEFI mode the screen blanks and then shows static arranged as triangles spread across the screen for about 10 seconds - and then the desktop comes up normal as it should.  Weird.  When booted in legacy mode the desktop just comes up without the weird temporary static stuff.

The SATA SSD (containing drive u:)  does not show up in the Fixed Boot Order Priorities list and cannot be put in that list.  The only way to boot to that drive/partition is to use the BIOS boot menu (press F11 on startup)  AirBoot installed on the SATA SSD shows all the drives with primary paritions - including drive C: - and will boot to drive C:

So to avoid having to use the bios boot menu to get a legacy boot on my main drive (drive c:) I removed the ESP and installed AirBoot on the NVME.  Big mistake - because now the mouse doesn't work.   Hopefully I can fix this with Rich's CSMtoUEFI utility.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.

[Dave Yeo]

I have rEFInd setup here to boot to my legacy MBR SSD (and then airboot comes up) as well as my UEFI M2, it'll even boot the install stick in legacy mode allowing me to do a legacy install while in UEFI mode.
Much easier then using the F12 boot menu or going into the BIOS to change boot order.
Search for rEFInd on the main forum page.

[Rich Walsh]

Thanks Rich.  I was just about to ask whether something like this existed and I saw your post.  I need it because I think I got rid of the files in the ESP.

'CSM2UEFI' is not going to fix - or even touch - your ESP. The following is what it fixes:

when booted in UEFI mode the screen blanks and then shows static arranged as triangles spread across the screen for about 10 seconds - and then the desktop comes up normal as it should.  Weird.  When booted in legacy mode the desktop just comes up without the weird temporary static stuff.

You are booting UEFI using CSM base video drivers:
  SET VIO_SVGA=DEVICE(BVHVGA,BVHSVGA)
vs.
  SET VIO_SVGA=DEVICE(BVHEFI)

CSM2UEFI will pull 7 files from the ISO, put them in the right places, then update 2 lines in config.sys to give you UEFI-compatible text-mode and DOS video. As you've noticed, you don't need to do anythng to get PM and WinOS2 video working.

So to avoid having to use the bios boot menu to get a legacy boot on my main drive (drive c:) I removed the ESP and installed AirBoot on the NVME.  Big mistake - because now the mouse doesn't work.

You keep making it worse for yourself. Your ESP *MUST* be on your first drive and it MUST contain all UEFI bootloaders and boot managers for all operating systems. In contrast, your bootable partitions can be on any drive. Use MiniLVM to reinstall the AOS UEFI components.

Afterthought... you say you installed AirBoot on the NVME. Did you _really_ reformat the drive as MBR? Argggh...

[Doug Clark]

Afterthought... you say you installed AirBoot on the NVME. Did you _really_ reformat the drive as MBR? Argggh...

Naahh - it was always formatted MBR.  I figured life was complex enough without adding GPT to the mix.

 I used MiniLVM - Boot Menu - Remove to remove the UEFI boot "manager" and then Boot Menu - Install and selected AirBoot.  However the mouse doesn't work when booting through AirBoot, so I went back to MiniLVM to remove AirBoot and create the ESP partition and realized it was still there - the MiniLVM remove option doesn't actually delete the partition.

You keep making it worse for yourself.

With this experience I think I am going to adopt that as my motto.  I know my wife would agree.

You know this UEFI, UEFI/CSM  - boot stuff may not be rocket science but is still pretty complex.  There is quite good documentation with rEFINd that  goes into great detail about the booting - stuff I did not know.  I was pretty happy under my rock until I had to get a new machine.  Boy things have certainly changed in the last 10 years.

Thanks again Rich for your help - and everyone else.

[edit]
 I forgot to ask.  Does anyone recognize the boot menu/manager in the attachment?  After going back to UEFI boot on the first drive, and installing reFind, when I boot os2ldr.efi with reFind the OS/2 boot blob appears in the upper left corner of the screen and then this boot menu.  Which I think means this is coming from OS/2-AOS rather than the bios or reFind.
[/edit]

[Dave Yeo]

About GPT. It is slightly slower due to the filter. It allows partitions that are aligned correctly, this is important for SSD's etc that use 4KB sectors as ideally the devices sectors and file systems (JFS) should align. Not only somewhat faster but in the case of SSD's, cuts down on wear. Write a one byte file and 4KB gets written. If sectors are not aligned, 8KB actually gets written with house keeping and garbage collection happening twice as often.
With GPT, you can use other partitioning tools and at the worse, have to go back and reassign the drive letter.
You can only boot GPT with UEFI, and you will have to add the GPT filter to older installs to rad the GPT disks
Personally, I have my 1TB NVMe device partitioned GPT with ArcaOS 5.1, a big data partition and Linux on it and my older half a TB SSD partitioned MBR with legacy installs. rEFInd allows me to boot to which ever I choose, with airboot on the MBR device then chain loading.
Edit: ESP is also on the 1TB NVMe device. I did have one on the regular MBR SSD device, which I added to the system after installing 5.1, things got confusing until I wiped that partition. As you found, hiding it is not good enough.

[Roderick Klein]

About GPT. It is slightly slower due to the filter. It allows partitions that are aligned correctly, this is important for SSD's etc that use 4KB sectors as ideally the devices sectors and file systems (JFS) should align. Not only somewhat faster but in the case of SSD's, cuts down on wear. Write a one byte file and 4KB gets written. If sectors are not aligned, 8KB actually gets written with house keeping and garbage collection happening twice as often.
With GPT, you can use other partitioning tools and at the worse, have to go back and reassign the drive letter.
You can only boot GPT with UEFI, and you will have to add the GPT filter to older installs to rad the GPT disks
Personally, I have my 1TB NVMe device partitioned GPT with ArcaOS 5.1, a big data partition and Linux on it and my older half a TB SSD partitioned MBR with legacy installs. rEFInd allows me to boot to which ever I choose, with airboot on the MBR device then chain loading.
Edit: ESP is also on the 1TB NVMe device. I did have one on the regular MBR SSD device, which I added to the system after installing 5.1, things got confusing until I wiped that partition. As you found, hiding it is not good enough.

David said at Warpstock (from Arca Noae) the performance impact is 15% slower then an MBR disc. So that is not to bad.
Honestly GPT is MUCH more compatible for setting up multiboot systems.

Roderick