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Do we still need a 64-bit version of OS/2? And a possible roadmap provided ...

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JTA:
With the AToF solution, I think I no longer need (or perhaps even care about) a 64-bit version of OS/2 ...

If you'll recall, AToF provides for a 64-bit Host OS (linux or windows), a virtualization program (Virtualbox), and OS/2 or ArcaOS is running in a VM. 64-bit apps are provided to OS/2 in a browser (Firefox) via Winflector; or, the entire AToF platform allows windowed access on the same PC to other os's (HostOS or other OS VM's) running 64-bit apps. OS/2 stays at 32-bits, but none of the current crop of hardware/software problems are there under AToF. More AToF details at:

  os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3498.0.html

It remains fun to think about a 64-bit OS/2, though ...

Of course, getting to a 64-bit OS/2 "the old way" (writing it from the ground up) is near impossible, because of IBM "licensing issues" & such, where the source code for OS/2 itself most likely never gets opened up. Are there any alternatives, short of clean-slate rewrites of each piece of "existing" OS/2? With no money, this clean-slate approach also remains unavailable.

But, is a new way opening up for us? A thought exercise is that a "microkernel" and "workplace OS" (a new form of OS/2, kinda/sorta already done, but later abandoned by IBM) approach would get us there, and some of the pieces are getting tantalizingly closer ...

The microkernel part is complete, and it appears we can bring up a 64-bit microkernel (seL4) on pc hardware (and other platforms). The IBM Workplace OS microkernel (mach) is replaced by an *existing* seL4 microkernel (NOVA, based on seL4). OS/2 was up and running on the Mach microkernel. We can now swap out Mach for NOVA (seL4). To keep up with the interesting work in this area, look at Genode Lab's efforts on:

  - the Genode OS Framework
  - the NOVA microkernel (seL4)
  - Sculpt OS (which we would want to replace with Workplace OS pieces)

The OS/2 part would be the other elements of IBM's Workplace OS, which hopefully doesn't have the same license restrictions, as IBM & partners were going a clean-slate route for development (hopefully, no Microsoft code remains in there). Instead of being layered on Mach, they are layered on NOVA.

I can't pursue this any further (even on paper) until I can get the original Workplace OS up and running in some form of virtualization or emulation ... most likely, it will be with QEMU. I believe I've found all the Workplace OS bits and pieces, but don't think I'll be ready to show something at this year's Warpstock. It looks like I can get there, though. Virtualization or emulation would enable more poking around on how Workplace OS did it's thing, which in turn would enable something more like a roadmap:

1. done (Genode solution): get a microkernel up and running on PC hardware
2. wip: get Workplace OS up and running under emulation ... enable more investigation of OS/2 in this environment
    - I could find that I still don't have all the pieces, but, some progress
    - don't know how to ask IBM for missing pieces; ignoring licensing, for the moment, unless it actually starts working.
3. determine how to rewrite the OS/2 pieces on top of an existing microkernel
  - will IBM open up the Workplace OS parts? That would jumpstart things ...
  - if they won't, can these piece be clean-slated?

Again, I'm fairly happy running OS/2 as a 32-bit OS in an AToF solution, because AToF takes care of all my 64-bit needs, on one PC. I also no longer need 16-bit DOS or 16/32-bit Windows, each under 32-bit OS/2, because they are available under AToF, and run with no problems in other VM's.

AToF does enable virtualization and emulation, so it's actually quite fun to attempt going down the Workplace OS rabbit hole, and to see how far I can actually get. It won't cost me anything but some emulation time & effort ... if successful, that would get item 2 on the above roadmap done.

Your thoughts?

Lars:
If you want it or not does not matter: there will never be a 64-bit version of OS/2. Period.

Martin Iturbide:
Is the OS the kernel? the GUI? the user experience? and/or the applications that is has ?

OS/2 Kernel may never be 64bits, but I think about the idea of a different kernel that can interpret OS/2 in a way all applications think they still running on OS/2.

Even that I don't know much about it, I made this little graphic on how it should be over Zircon (Fuchsia OS) (A new Microkernel OS from Google - MIT license last time I checked). I always thought that CPI was the only thing taking to the kernel, but I think that the $DRIVERS$ talk also to the kernel. So the video, POINTER$, timers and other drivers need to be faked on a new kernel.

Regards

Neil Waldhauer:
I'll remind people there is an Apache OpenOffice port available here: https://www.bitwiseworks.com/products/ports.php

This thread has drifted way off-topic. Maybe an admin could break it up?

I think it might be interesting to create a 64-bit host program to act as a helper for OS/2. Then some commands could be routed to the 64-bit host, while maintaining the original OS/2 in good condition. Essentially, a 64-bit API could be interpreted by the host. Data would flow between the host and OS/2 with some inter-process communication yet to be determined.

There is still the difficulty of switching between 64-bit and 32-bit operation by the CPU, but at least some 64-bit operations could be fit into existing OS/2.

JTA:
Relative to Neil's post (but without the programming), it would be possible to do simple job control, and have OS/2 initiating 64-bit actions on other 64-bit machines, and getting results back into the OS/2 session. For more detail, look at:

  os2world.com/forum/index.php/topic,3716.0.html

If all the effort is kept on an AToF machine, there would be less latency & complexity, as all task activity happens on multiple VM's local to your single AToF machine.

We do have python on OS/2, so you could make python API calls from OS/2 to a backend 64-bit program providing an API (somewhere out there, VM on your AToF machine, another physical machine on your network, the internet). Being python, you could program away to your heart's content. If this is what you meant, it's a great idea, Neil.

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