Warpstock 2024: Coming? Not Coming? Why?

[Lewis Rosenthal]

Rather than try to discuss this in the Warpstock forums, which are lightly trafficked, I thought I'd ask this here.

The event in Pittsburgh is earlier this year than in recent years, to try to give people a better weather experience. Also, the holiday calendar makes October a bit difficult, and November is potentially chilly (see my first point).

Some may not be familiar with Pittsburgh, or have misconceptions about its charm. I suggest a quick trip to Wikipedia for a refresher. Pittsburgh is rich with history and culture, and there is an excellent technology museum there (we're working on a potential evening outing there during the event - no promises, but we can always do something impromptu).

Another thing is the hotel group rate. (The hotel has extended our cutoff date to September 9, so for today, at least, it's still possible to book at our group rate of $145/night, which is considerably less than the normal rate for the end of September.) In recent years, I've found that our hotel group rate seemed great when we negotiated the contract, but then, as compared to the regular rate for the time of year of the event, it may have actually been a few $$ more than the regular rate. That annoyed me no end. That's apparently not the case this year.

Warpstock is picking up the tab on lunches for the event, too. Students with valid high school or college ID get FREE admission to all sessions and free food.

We have historically had difficulty "breaking into" the college IT departments to get the publicity we'd like. Let's face it: we're not getting any younger, and getting new blood interested in the platform is priority 1 for us these days (I got the same speech at my car club convention in July and at an Antique Automobile Club of America National Meet last month - encourage new, younger people to join). If anyone has contacts at any of the local (within reasonable driving distance, certainly) colleges or universities - or even high schools - please let us know or make the introduction on our behalf. A wider audience is good for all users of the platform, and who knows? Perhaps the next star developer will attend a Warpstock event - this Warpstock event.

We believe that we provide a good value for the cost of attendance. Watching the stream is a good second choice, but it never matches the in-person experience.

So, if you are coming to Warpstock this year, please mention why. If not, please go into some detail as to your reasons for not making the trip (travel cost, hassle of getting there, registration cost, bad timing, lack of enthusiasm for the location, etc.). We want to know.

Thanks!

[Gordon Snider]

I'm all booked to come! 
I do enjoy meeting the people behind the names in the OS/2 world. 
Lewis, does CafePress have this year's logo for branded swag?     
Even though I am probably the least technically advanced attendee I do look forward to hearing of Roadmap ahead
and meeting the programmers of the OS/2 products. 
I am a "user", the web browser, PMMail,  Mesa/2 Spreadsheet, NEPMD
Editor, and REXX for scripting.   

[Martin Iturbide]

Hello Gordon
I will see you there !!

Regards

[Mentore]

Rather than try to discuss this in the Warpstock forums, which are lightly trafficked, I thought I'd ask this here.

Some may not be familiar with Pittsburgh, or have misconceptions about its charm. I suggest a quick trip to Wikipedia for a refresher. Pittsburgh is rich with history and culture, and there is an excellent technology museum there (we're working on a potential evening outing there during the event - no promises, but we can always do something impromptu).

Another thing is the hotel group rate.

<-- snip -->


So, if you are coming to Warpstock this year, please mention why. If not, please go into some detail as to your reasons for not making the trip (travel cost, hassle of getting there, registration cost, bad timing, lack of enthusiasm for the location, etc.). We want to know.

Thanks!

As much as I'd love to meet other OS/2 enthusiasts like me, I'm afraid Warpstock and Warpstock Europe are all off limits for me.
The only thing I don't lack is enthusiasm, both for the platform and the events. I don't have time nor resources to afford the trip, and having a wife, a two-and-a-half years old son, a full time job and other jobs, there's really too much to do here for me to leave for a few days.
I'll try to follow the recordings as soon as I have the time to do so. Yes it's a second choice, but alas, there's nothing else available.

A quick note on involving youngsters: I totally agree in saying there should be something to do with students. I feel OS/2 has really much to say in STEM fields, where its stability can rival with other platforms and a more coherent user interface may guarantee a better user experience than its most relevant competitor (which is surely Linux: Windows is too far). This should be the most important point to stress out, since Linux is unbeatable when it comes to money (but still, not free - you have a steep learning curve even with the most "windows-ish" distributions).

Hope everyone attending this year's Warpstock will have a great time.
Mentore

[JTA]

I drive vs fly, and Pittsburgh is a tad too far from the Colorado area, so I'll be watching the stream this year ...

I hope Warpstock can bring parity to both sides (conference & virtual attendance), including local clubs video conferencing to the national meetup ... which requires more local clubs. This will be my first virtual attendance.

Basically, I don't understand Warpstock (the .org & website), as that site seems woefully out of date. I can get at historical info, but ... Huge gaps, no (OS/2) news, etc. NO ROADMAPS (here on the site) = no future?

I couldn't tell anyone what any of the roadmaps for OS/2 are ... I think they are:

1. modernize the OS/2 platform ... this is ArcaOS, mostly for commercial purposes(?), but also for consumers. Basically, get ArcaOS onto more modern computing equipment, with more device driver support. OS/2 remains 32-bit.
  - I don't run OS/2 directly on real hardware ... it's too problematic, with 64-bit issues, hardware issues, etc.
  - I do virtualize, and feel that there are "no problems" and "64-bit access to everything", on one machine (even in OS/2)
  - got no traction this past year on a native 32-bit Winflector client for OS/2 (even though a native 32-bit linux client exists (meaning it's 90% done?). A native OS/2 winflector client would've brought very seamless 64-bit apps to OS/2 (the OS/2 browser html5 approach still works, as I demo'd in Warpstock '23, but not as seamlessly). ArcaOS is not driving this, and needs to be?

2. bring more (young) people to OS/2 ... can't find a roadmap for this
  - how does one develop for OS/2 ... what is the perfect dev environment; I couldn't really find anything to give to a kid wanting to develop. nothing ties together.
  - how does one do all of the modern things alongside a not-so-modern OS; as it stands today, I couldn't attract my kids to OS/2 as a single OS on real hardware.
  - what is the platform of the future, that the kids will be driving (hint: I think it's virtualization)

3. get OS/2 on top of 64-bits ... can't find a roadmap for this
  - I did post a thread recently with loose roadmap ... not enough feedback, other than continue on my own until I hit a roadblock. One person was kind enough to say it'll never happen, but I can't put this in the sales pitch slide deck.
  - I run OS/2 on a single modern platform, 64-bits, zero hardware/software problems ... but it requires virtualization; very few realize they can virtualize with today's hardware, and run any os. My scheme (AToF) is not currently packaged to be downloadable, and needs to be.

OS/2 is what it is (at the moment) ... I am just trying to understand where OS/2 is going, much like where Haiku is going ... both were excellent OS's in their original time, and both are still relevant in modern times, but with seemingly different trajectories & futures. Haiku seems to be going somewhere ...

Could we just compliment the Haiku folks, by lifting the Haiku website look & feel for Warpstock?

Hope this helps ...

[MPJ]

I can't afford it, unfortunately I don't have the time. I generally prefer to take part online.

—-

For "young" people, OS/2 may only be interesting for retro computing / gaming. This requires, among other things, a modern and stable browser and better DOS/multimedia support than Dosbox. If Odin were on the same level as Wine, OS/2 would certainly be a very good alternative to 32-bit Linux.

Ultimately the question is: Why should I use OS/2 or ArcaOS for DOS/Windows gaming when everything is available under Windows itself and Linux. For DOS games you can easily use STEAM or GoG. The games are already packed into a Dosbox environment and you just have to start them and they also have sound

[Neil Waldhauer]

I try to make it to most Warpstock events, but this year, I'm unable to attend. It is a significant amount to time and money to attend Warpstock -- airfare, hotel, etc.

I think the attraction is to have a bunch of OS/2 users in one room. There is also some sense of announcements and future plans, but that has dwindled over the years.

I helped to put on some virtual Warpstocks, but the limitations of our platform constrain that to an insufficiently engaging experience. I also run BayWarp, a local OS/2 user group that also struggles to find attendees.

[Doug Bissett]

So, if you are coming to Warpstock this year, please mention why. If not, please go into some detail as to your reasons for not making the trip (travel cost, hassle of getting there, registration cost, bad timing, lack of enthusiasm for the location, etc.). We want to know.

I can't fly, due to ear problems (and other things). I would consider driving, but I neglected to get a passport. I should have gone to Calgary, a few years ago, but something came up, and I didn't get there. Oh well...

I see the biggest problem as nobody is actually writing new software for OS/2. All efforts seem to be put into porting software written for other platforms. Since most of them have 64 bit support, there is little (or no) thought put into writing efficient code (and that shows, on other platforms, but modern computer are fast enough to make up for it). Then there are the restrictions, put in place to stop the bad guys, that are mostly useless, but still stop our platform because we cannot possibly keep up to what they are doing.

Getting post secondary software classes involved would seem to be one answer, but I don't have any contacts.

Looking forward to the results of the meeting.

[Sigurd Fastenrath]

Well, America is long way, I did not even attend Warpstock Europe this year, even when it took place in Germany.
During the last 2 or 3 Years I did only watch part of the Videos, it was nice to have a crross meeting Warptock US /Europe last year.
Most of the German users faded out.

Even though ArcaOS is for at least 5 years out, every important thing for me did not came, even if there was allways and anytime told
"It is on our List", "We are very close".

- WLAN support (I guees this is not even on the List anymore)
- German NLS
- Browser
- ...
I really appriciate was has been done to ArcaOS, thats why I still experiment with it, GPT, UEFI Support, Panorama, USB 3, these are all really big effort, considering the few developers and the long time outclassed Kernel.

But on the other hand together with others we spent a reasonalbe amount of money for the browser, the ongoing subscriptions, but did never get, what we wanted. ArcaOS did never really commit to the Browser Initiative, as far as I know.

And more important to me: the RAM problem on modern hardware will prevent ArcaOS to use a new browser, even if it will ever see the light of day.

So, for me instead of having GPT, UEFI and this stuff, I would have been more happy having a browser on older hardware, like an Thinkpad X250, but where I can access the full 4 GB and do not need UEFI nor GPT.

ArcaOS is focussed on industrial customers, that is understandable for money reasons, but the death to the private comunity.

In the end - who cares?

Attracting young users is a kind of, well "Nice dream" when one look at generation Z. I do really not know anyone new to OS/2 since the last 15 Years, and if, as mentioned, in cas of using it as a retro plattform. But even this is some kind of false, if you want to have a really good retro platform, you take Linux free of charge, use DOSBOX, SCUMVM and Virtualbox to operate what you want.

I wish all a good Warpstock but expect nothing new from it, besides what I have heard for years regarding my targets. "It is on the List, We hear you." I do not listen that much anymore.

All the Best!

[Lewis Rosenthal]

Thanks to everyone who has already posted.

My initial question - and the one which is still not fully answered - is why are people coming or not coming to Warpstock?

I get that Arca Noae still has work to do, that there is currently no latest-Chrome-equivalent browser for the platform (and that many think that it is Arca Noae's responsibility to "grow one"), that there are 64-bit platforms which can virtualize the OS, that our only modern office suite is OpenOffice and not LibreOffice...

However, if all these things existed, would you come to Warpstock this year? If not, would sessions on browser functionality make the difference? Would sessions on how to use the platform for daily computing make the difference?

This thread is specific to coming to Warpstock or not. If people here aren't using the platform, and Warpstock content is irrelevant, I get that. But people here are (still) using OS/2 in one form or another for one thing or another. So, what would make the trip worthwhile vs watching a live stream? What topics aren't getting covered which would pique interest? What locations (other than "in my home town," please - we get that one all the time) or venues (other than hotels) would be better suited to attracting attendees?

I haven't heard yet that the registration fee is out of reason or that - for those who have attended in the past - the experience wasn't worthwhile, so I'm curious as to why some still hold back. I get that travel is a hassle, particularly from Europe, but we used to get a whole "European contingent" (as I was wont to call them). Perhaps they came because IBM picked up the tab for most of them.

We can have a different thread regarding Arca Noae's priorities and why Arca Noae can't bring every application to the platform (including a browser), and why NLVs for ArcaOS have taken so long to get to market, and yes, there still is a list, and yes, we are still working our way down that list. (Unlike Alphabet, Microsoft, and the global Linux developer community, we do not have thousands of coders at our beckon call; we prioritize driver development and maintenance to at least get the OS booting on newer hardware.) All of that having been said, this thread is about the Warpstock event, its location, its content, its cost, and the experience.

I'll have some more specific responses in the coming days. (Gordon: Swag is coming; I need to find another hour or two to update the shop. It's truly a pain to make that happen, as it's not just swapping one logo for another, but resizing for the best fit for every single product in the store, checking available colors against colors in the logo, and so forth.)

[Michael]

Hello Lewis,

First of all, I would like to praise you for your commitment. We are all aware of the situation of trying to achieve something with the few developers. Therefore, you also deserve my greatest respect.

The reasons why I don't come to WarpStock are varied. Partly professional and partly private. But that has nothing to do with the event itself or the prices or anything else related to it.

Nevertheless, I have to agree with Sigurd. The most modern bootable system is of no use if you don't have the latest software for OS/2. OpenOffice may still do its job, but it is already outdated, and not just under OS/2. And the browser is now the most important application in the private environment and in the office. We're welcome to open a new thread. Everything stands or falls in this segment.

Apart from that. A careless Linux port also does not take advantage of the advantages of WPS or other OS/2-specific technologies. The technologies for which we all appreciate and love OS/2.

The situation is what it is. I think it's a huge shame. ArcaOS runs extremely well and reliably on my ThinkPad. If it weren't for the browser situation, I wouldn't even dream of looking for an alternative system. But a point has now been reached where daily work can hardly be completed.

So all that remains is to wait and see whether a solution might be found. Of course, Arca Noae's job is not to develop a browser. But you are our contacts and it is “your” operating system. If you can't find a solution to this, who will?

[Andi B.]

Coming?

No.

Why?

Lot of reasons. To far for me. I never ever was in America and think will never. Would have to spend at least 1 week of holiday without my family which I don't want for a hobby. I've a full time job with limited holidays. And it would need a big (huge) amount of money for traveling and accommodation.

I also lost some interest in ArcaOS. Partly because it's getting harder to do what I want with my systems (OS/2 limitations, browser, ...), partly because I don't spent so much time with computers in general than the decades before. I still use OS/2 and ArcaOS and sometimes like to code for this platform. But not whole nights anymore.

Personally I don't have any need for wifi drivers anymore. Neither UEFI or high DPI displays. I can live without that. I don't use notebooks very much but when I do then they run linux primarily. Although I test it, I don't use OS/2 on modern notebooks. 

Probably I will setup my next desktop system again with the primary OS being ArcaOS. But it have to run beside some Linux and Win installations. Thanks ArcaNoae I still can use OS/2-ArcaOS on rather new desktop hardware. Otherwise I had quit using OS/2 years ago. But still with a working desktop system, today I need some Linux boxes around which I connect via RDP/git/....

[Gordon Snider]

Lewis,

As for ideas for seminar topics:  I have 3 computers running ArcaOS.  I would like to learn
Networking, not just how to set up Samba, but how it all works so I really understand
what happens sending files from computer to computer. 

Also I have a distant dream of learning C and doing some programming.  (I have taken 3 or 4
runs at C using Kernighan and Ritchie but never seem to get to the end of the book.)
I have just recently downloaded the latest toolkit, the Open Watcom compiler and the Drv32
kit from David's site.   Where from there?  Ideas for projects?
 

[JTA]

Q's extracted from Lewis R. post above:

1. would you come to Warpstock this year?
  - Nothing about the Warpstock site encouraged me to attend in-person ... site must be improved to do a better selling job for OS/2 (why come back to it, why use it, etc.) and ultimately the Warpstock event itself. Take a look at HaikuOS.org and replicate everything. Build interest in Warpstock, starting here ...
  - there absolutely must be a Team OS/2; they have to build interest in everything, everywhere in their geography (OS/2 clubs, etc), all year long, so folks are lined up at the Warpstock locations to see the events. If you build it up, they will come ...
  - both in-person and virtual attendance must be on par, and the warpstock website must make this super-simple (to pay fees, participate, etc.)

2. would sessions on browser functionality make the difference?
  - there must be a "chocolatey" cli install tool for OS/2 (not ANPM, not yum, which are linux tools and which themselves get in the way); whomever creates a browser solution gets the (user) install done with a simple "choco install ThisNiftyBrowser"  ... perhaps "Warp install ThisNiftyBrowser"
  - Warpstock site must have the package list, similar to chocolatey.org
  - there must be well-defined solutions for modern browser access inside OS/2 (AToF & winflector solution provides any modern browser within OS/2)

3. Would sessions on how to use the platform for daily computing make the difference?
  - possibly ... but definitely have Team OS/2 do this, with every team member coming up with tutorials; each team member works with one or more SME's, builds the tutorial. depending on what they came up with, I might attend in-person
  - have a warpstock website suggestion box to catch idea/tutorial requests
  - for the most popular sessions, do live sessions at each location
  - How to solve every technical difficulty with OS/2; bring a laptop & SSD, we'll have you set up with AToF before the session is over (the Warpstock USB Key does the heavy lifting).

4. what would make the trip worthwhile vs watching a live stream
  - building up so much interest in OS/2 (thanks to Team OS/2 activities all year-long), that I absolutely must attend the in-person event nearest me, vs virtual, just to catch the buzz and receive the event largesse (usb key, coffee cup, etc.). Some event items will ONLY be at the in-person locations?
  - USB key (given away at the event, part of event fee) boots directly into OS/2 and demonstrates things; warpstock site mirrors this
  - coordinate the Warpstock event across geographies, such that there are two simultaneous events in east/west usa, two in north/south australia (north covers asia-pacific?), and equivalent for europe; it doesn't matter which location you are at, you are there at Warpstock.
  - roadmaps ... not just ArcaOS' product roadmaps, but roadmaps for OS/2. a roadmap for each of:
    - Team OS/2 (what they did the past year, what they will do next year, are you Warped enough for recruitment, etc.)
    - OS/2 dev (code camps, system setups, etc)
    - getting more apps to OS/2 (LibreOffice, ...)
    - getting apps to do the OS/2 thing (wps, objects)
    - getting past 64-bits for now (AToF and Winflector does this)
    - getting to 64-bits (WorkplaceOS-like on sel4/Nova microkernel)
    - and many more ...

Hope this helps ...