Author Topic: OS/2 Licensing  (Read 11878 times)

Neil Waldhauer

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OS/2 Licensing
« on: December 29, 2024, 08:41:26 pm »
I'm looking at how people use OS/2. I think people want to try something different, and I see a lot of copies that can be downloaded.

OS/2 is not abandonware. No version of OS/2 is “free”. ArcaOS is based on an IBM licensed OS/2. It's still for sale.

That said, you can freely download any number of OS/2 versions. If you are a licensed OS/2 user, you can legitimately use these downloaded versions.

These are the license classes I recognize

OS/2 Warp 41996 release, without Software Advantage
OS/2 Warp 41996 release including Software Advantage
MCPone of the Merlin Convenience pack releases, 1, 2, 2R
MCPwith Arca Noae software
eCSeComStation release, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.2R, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 beta
eCSwith Arca Noae Software
ArcaOSversions 5.0.x, 5.1
ArcaOSwith Software Subscription



While running under VirtualBox, Warp4 needs TCP/IP 4.3 from Software Choice to implement Shared Folders
While running under VirtualBox, Warp4 and MCP both need Arca Noae Software to implement Power Off
Warp 3 probably has the same restrictions as Warp 4
Earlier versions of OS/2 probably cannot run TCP/IP 4.3
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Andrew Stephenson

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2024, 03:23:42 pm »
I hope this helps...

A while back, I suggested OS/2 (and probably most OSes) has Developers and Users, putting myself firmly in the latter class. Since then, I have begun to suspect I should have at least two machines.

One would run normal AOS, currently 5.1 here, and do AOS-type work, including internet (assuming Them As Fix Things can settle the Browser Saga so I need not use my Dell m/c running Win-10).

The other would be the equivalent of the trusty old office typewriter, for writing work, the WP being WordStar-7c. When I ran eCS-2.1, WS-7c ran well. Not so with AOS-5.1's DOS session, which requires me not to invoke certain commands (or the system crashes) and its Win-3.1 session (which is flaky with old reference tools like the Oxford Compendium). So it would be Nice if They could offer a package comprising eCS-2.1 with upgrades of its ability to handle today's disk formats and USB types. Communication with the AOS m/c, as required, would be through intermediate USB storage devices. The AOS m/c, at a pinch, could format those devices. For office work, that's all I need.

What are my chances?

Roderick Klein

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2024, 04:47:17 pm »
I hope this helps...

A while back, I suggested OS/2 (and probably most OSes) has Developers and Users, putting myself firmly in the latter class. Since then, I have begun to suspect I should have at least two machines.

One would run normal AOS, currently 5.1 here, and do AOS-type work, including internet (assuming Them As Fix Things can settle the Browser Saga so I need not use my Dell m/c running Win-10).

The other would be the equivalent of the trusty old office typewriter, for writing work, the WP being WordStar-7c. When I ran eCS-2.1, WS-7c ran well. Not so with AOS-5.1's DOS session, which requires me not to invoke certain commands (or the system crashes) and its Win-3.1 session (which is flaky with old reference tools like the Oxford Compendium). So it would be Nice if They could offer a package comprising eCS-2.1 with upgrades of its ability to handle today's disk formats and USB types. Communication with the AOS m/c, as required, would be through intermediate USB storage devices. The AOS m/c, at a pinch, could format those devices. For office work, that's all I need.

What are my chances?

Did you open a ticket for this issue with WS-7C. I worked on eCS 2.1 at Mensys with Joachim. Boy that was a job to get 2.0 and 2.1 gone. I am also on the beta tester list for ArcaOS 5.1.0.
But what I typed before for other people there are not many changes to the code for VDM session. Some VDM drivers where updated as there was no choice.

But please open a ticket with Arca Noae if it can be reproduced the issue.

What do you un a UEFI based ArcaOS or a system with ArcaOS and BIOS boot. Without these details its hard to make any proper judgment if its ArcaOS or eCS 2.1.
generate on an CMD exe command the a testlog generic with this command and attach it to your ticket. Maybe we can make a further analysis to help you out.

Best wishes for 2025.

Roderick Klein
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Dave Yeo

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2024, 05:10:54 pm »
ArcaNoae can't sell eCS as much of it is copyrighted by Mensys or their successor. Look at https://www.arcanoae.com/shop/os2-ecs-drivers-software-subscription-personal-renewal/ for upgrading your eCS and which drivers you can update.

Martin Iturbide

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2024, 06:02:07 pm »
Hello

I personally think that "IBM OS/2" is abandonware. But the issue here is that everybody takes the definition of abandonware as they like.

Wikipedia says:
Quote
"Abandonware is a product, typically software, ignored by its owner and manufacturer, which can no longer be found for sale, and for which no official support is available and cannot be bought."

For me IBM OS/2 is abandonware, ArcaOS is not. Mostly because IBM OS/2 is no longer for sell from IBM and IBM does not offer support for it.

But does it means we can do anything we like with the "Abandonware"? For me it is "No".
Abandonware it is not Public Domain and it is still copyrighted by it's author even if he does not want to enforce that copyright at the moment.

But, also according to wikipedia "Currently, US copyright law does not recognize the term or concept of "abandonware"
So, even if we say that "IBM OS/2" is abandonware, by law it is not, because it is not defined. So, I guess Neil is right  ;D

Regards
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JTA

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2024, 06:49:21 pm »
OS/2 (ms & ibm versions) are, for me, Whack-A-MOS's (Whack-A-Mole OS's) ...

They are copyright and enjoined on paper & shrinkwrap, and by copyright law, but because their copyright owners have mostly abandoned them, it's now moot. Add to that the Internet distribution models of today (archive.org, many others), they can no longer be "contained" (restricted). Finally, virtualization capabilities of modern hardware and software allow anything, from any time, to be explored & tested. Availability is not containable for pretty much any piece of software from any time period, unlike the old days.

This means these OS's will pop their heads up in many configurations and uses, and it would be up to MS, IBM, and others to decide if that head, as popped up, warrants "whacking" (egregious use warrants whacking by cease&desist, lawsuits, etc.; casual use does not, at this time).

ArcaOS is an exception, as it is a modern OS, licensed and enforced in such a way that you know who is redistributing it (illegally), and the owners (AN) can go after it if any such illegal use head pops up. It is also small enough that it has escaped modern developer attention (hacking it's distribution model in any form).

My own use case? "I see dead OS's ..."
... and then I bring them back to life (with virtualization software), and put them to use again! There are infinite possibilities here. This ranges from DOS and earlier, to OS/2 and later, Win and later, and many others ... I even have a mainframe running in virtualization (this is a little trickier to get it to do something useful for me, but I'm working on it).

So, if you can get at an OS (or any piece of software), make use of it ... just don't let your head rise up too far to where it gets noticed, and position yourself for whacking ...

Doug Clark

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2024, 02:33:06 pm »

If someone wants to run a older copy of OS/2 it is pretty simple, and cheap, to buy a copy from ebay.  This avoids any potential legal issues.

Finding a used copy of eCS will probably be harder.  From the viewpoint of running Win-OS/2 I think there is very little advantage to eCS over a earlier version of AOS - meaning what will run in eCS v 2.x will probably also run in AOS version 5.0  It is when you get to later versions of AOS that I have seen some Win-OS/2 issues start to appear.  And most of those Win-OS/2 issues that I have experienced can be fixed by running limited to one CPU.

Whether those issues would appear in eCS or AOS running in a virtual machine I don't know.  It would be interesting to hear from someone that is running Win-OS/2 in either eCS or AOS in a virtual machine. 


Andrew Stephenson

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2025, 10:44:25 am »
Thanks for the feedback, to what I posted and to others' comments. A HappyNewYear-2025.0 to all!

The points about the purchase/acquisition of eCS being restricted by copyright is a nuisance; but, as someone who has copyrighted material Out There, I accept it.

Roderick: No, I have not (yet) opened a ticket on the DOS session problems. For two reasons: (1) I am bogged down in work that must be done as soon as possible but seems likely to keep me busy at least for another month; (2) knowing what to report is tricky, because different problems appear with different applications. I'd probably be happy to supply Arca Noae's boffins with an entire copy of WS-7c, that being (with Borland Quattro Pro, which mostly works okay) my main tool. But it has to wait.

(BTW, around now someone will be tempted to mention WordTsar. I have tried it and am impressed with what its author has achieved so far; but I do not dare rely on it until it is finished and sufficiently bullet proofed.)

It would be lovely if AN could debug the DOS/Win-3.1 (and how about Linux &c?) sessions of AOS-5+. Having asked here, I shall ponder the answers and see what I can achieve, once my prior devoirs are dealt with.

Roderick Klein

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2025, 12:26:56 pm »
ArcaNoae can't sell eCS as much of it is copyrighted by Mensys or their successor. Look at https://www.arcanoae.com/shop/os2-ecs-drivers-software-subscription-personal-renewal/ for upgrading your eCS and which drivers you can update.

Having worked at Mensys I know what type of contract Arca Noae most likely has. IBM licenses OS/2 via a so called ASL contract. The product can not be named OS/2 and has to have different name.
Even if its an OS/2 product, IBM legal perspective how they understand see it legally as different product. So you can not for example buy a license of ArcaOS and then run for example MCP 4.52.
While Mensys provided an upgrade license, no discount was given by IBM to Mensys for the upgrade licenses sold. Again simply because IBM does not consider eCS as an OS/2 product.
Technically its an OS/2 product, legally not....

As for using the driver package on eCS. I just wonder how much trouble its worth. So many other OS components in ArcaOS have also been updated and getting update install media with eCS
can be done with the new drivers. But its a big headache.  eCS 2.1 was released in 2011. And I can not even to start mentioning how many bugs have been fixed in ArcaOS you miss out on with
eCS or Warp 4 even. I am not saying it can not be done. But its really for the brave solls :-)

Roderick

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2025, 03:44:23 pm »
If someone wants to try OS/2, and downloads a copy from the Internet, I doubt they can get in trouble with IBM, even if they are violating license terms.

It's different for someone who wants to offer OS/2 software. IBM may have issues with someone distributing OS/2 parts and fixpaks. Here on OS/2 World, we don't even give links to unofficial OS/2 media and fixes. But OS/2 has been off the market for 18 years.

Is there some time limit after which OS/2 licensing doesn't matter?

Have we already reached that time?

When can a business or other organization offer OS/2 parts without licensing restrictions?
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Roderick Klein

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2025, 05:09:35 pm »
If someone wants to try OS/2, and downloads a copy from the Internet, I doubt they can get in trouble with IBM, even if they are violating license terms.

It's different for someone who wants to offer OS/2 software. IBM may have issues with someone distributing OS/2 parts and fixpaks. Here on OS/2 World, we don't even give links to unofficial OS/2 media and fixes. But OS/2 has been off the market for 18 years.

Is there some time limit after which OS/2 licensing doesn't matter?

Have we already reached that time?

When can a business or other organization offer OS/2 parts without licensing restrictions?

Just like a book copyright applies to software. Look how long the copyright lasts for a book. That should also apply to software. Which is at least 70 years or in the US, best I can tell.

Roderick

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2025, 01:34:31 am »
The copyright seems to be 120 years for a commercial product like OS/2. Software written by one person would be copyrighted for 70 years after the end of his life.

Oddly, it looks like a private person downloading a copy of OS/2 and using it may be OK legally. Offering a copy of OS/2 for download from a server in the USA is probably not OK.
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Remy

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2025, 02:15:07 am »
IBM does not offer support for it.


Are you sure IBM no more providing support as special exclusive contract for customer customer requesting it ?
I remember IBM having provided OS/2 support in year 2015 for a client having a special support contract (not catalog referenced)

Martin Iturbide

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2025, 03:40:53 pm »
IBM does not offer support for it.


Are you sure IBM no more providing support as special exclusive contract for customer customer requesting it ?
I remember IBM having provided OS/2 support in year 2015 for a client having a special support contract (not catalog referenced)
Hi Remy

If you have information on which customer and which special support let me know. I haven't seen any leaked file, document, comment or evidence that IBM has patched or released new binaries since 2006 or in the latest years. Sometimes I think that we like to dream and have the hope that IBM is still working on it.

Regards
« Last Edit: January 03, 2025, 03:42:32 pm by Martin Iturbide »
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Andrew Stephenson

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Re: OS/2 Licensing
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2025, 04:21:11 pm »
[...] Look how long the copyright lasts for a book. That should also apply to software. Which is at least 70 years or in the US, best I can tell.
IIRC (and assuming the rules have not changed), literary copyright starts from the moment you create the text and lasts until "lifetime plus 70 years". Companies seem to have ways of refreshing copyrights, however: comics publishers (AIUI) simply need to re-use a character every so often. Titles and brand names can also be affected by rules about "passing off", so (eg) a breakfast cereal called "OS/2 Flakes" might escape IBM's wrath. What a certain well-known corporation would make of impotence medicine whose name included "Microsoft" is anyone's guess.