Author Topic: Mypal68: A possible alternative browser?  (Read 27235 times)

Andi B.

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Re: Mypal68: A possible alternative browser?
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2026, 02:02:34 pm »
Quote
but wouldn't it be worth it to use a fraction of Windows if it meant a functional browser?
No. There are better alternatives. Cheaper. More secure. And without reading and using (stealing) your data. And without giving permission to delete your data.

Dariusz Piatkowski

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Re: Mypal68: A possible alternative browser?
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2026, 03:18:36 pm »
David,

...One question I was wondering about though: So if you are using a solution like winflector, which is letting you virtualize a 64 bit browser while you are still on a 32bit/4gb machine - Does the fact that your machine is 32 bit and limited in ram effect the performance of the virtualized session?...

I have been using the FreeRDP app in such a fashion for a long time now.

Yes, you need another box, be it Win or Linux, that's actually hosting the application itself, but beyond that (which honestly is a tiny price to extend OS/2 usage in real-world scenario quite significantly) this is a very realistic solution.

Sure, it's no native app, no doubt about it, and sometimes little quirks pop up here and there, especially brought on by the hosting OS updates/changes, but otherwise it's a pretty decent setup.

In my case I've been using ThinStuff (licensed) but the last time I checked they did not support Win10/11, not sure if that has changed or not though.

Winflector is in fact my next 'go-to' as I have a much beefier Win11 box on my LAN that can really handle multiple such RDP sessions with ease.

JTA

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Re: Mypal68: A possible alternative browser?
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2026, 03:34:22 pm »
"the 4GB/32Bit limit is pretty much a ticking time bomb"

"Why do you think about winflector? Isn't this another remote access software where the real program runs on another hardware on another OS and only the screen output is mirrored to your machine?"

Both of these comments are currently "problems" with OS/2, but they are not showstoppers in any way. The whole point of "ArcaOS - Thrusters on Full" (AToF ... over in the virtualization subforum) is to solve these and other problems such that you can be very productive in OS/2, and *not experience* any of these problems. For example:

AToF runs on one machine (your desktop, your laptop), and utilizes all the reources of that machine (ssd's, 32 or 64gb ram, cpu's w/ multiple cores ... and makes all of these resources available to OS/2. It does this magic with a stripped down version of win10, such that the OS is a slave to OS/2's need ... win10 doesn't steal your data, it doesn't do anything other than provide resources to multiple OS/2 vm's on one box.

Multiple OS/2 vm's free us all up from nearly every single os/2 problem that this forum is full of:
- can't compile a massive app in one OS/2 vm? dedicate an OS/2 vm to compiling, or throw multiple vm's at it ... problem solved.
- can't access the occasional windows app? winflector, running on the win10 hostOS, is there to give any OS/2 vm a windowed win app, 64-bit, running on your os/2 desktop ... problem solved.
- can't access a piece of hardware, as there are no native OS/2 device drivers? win10 hostOS provides this, and makes everything available to the OS/2 vm's running ... all of them, all on one machine ... problem solved.

There's plenty more, just not enough room in a thread reply to show off all the features ... I demo'd this at Warpstock 2023, and wrote all of the AToF threads in the virtualization subforum, all with the goal of just using tools in the toolbox to solve all of OS/2's problems. Nothing magical, other than thinking outside of the box, and stringing tools together (win10 ameliorated, virtualbox, winflector, etc.) to ensure that OS/2's insurmountable limts aren't really a problem. These limits (4gb ram, 32-bit, no modern browser, never enough native device drivers, etc.) are likely to never go away, but it turns out that we don't need to worry about them anyway.

We can run 32-bit OS/2 forever, and get at any 64-bit feature we want ... just assemble those tools in the fashion that *you choose* ... if you choose not to, that's OK as well. It doesn't change the fact that OS/2 is not limited.

Just take one inexpensive box (my $200 ebay 2018 dell laptop, i7, 32gb ram, ssd), AToF it, and I can run multiple OS/2 vm's, on one physical machine. It isn't Windows, even though win10 is my hostOS (could also be linux, etc.) ... it's OS/2 (ArcaOS) all the way! I don't see the hostOS, I don't think about it at all, but Windows is slaved to OS/2 (the way it should be), and I get to keep using OS/2's very unique features ... forever!

Anyone else can, if they choose to ...

NOTE: we need to get ArcaOS and Winflector folks together, to produce an OS/2 native winflector client, which is a port of the linux 32-bit native client to OS/2. I've done much to request this, but it's been "crickets" from both parties. Everyone else should pile on as well, repeatedly, until these two sides finally get together to get it done.


David Kiley

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Re: Mypal68: A possible alternative browser?
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2026, 11:24:32 pm »
Regarding:
"the 4GB/32Bit limit is pretty much a ticking time bomb"

I just meant coding a native web browser, even if achieved now, is going to run up against a memory limit eventually.
Whereas a virtual solution like winflector won't.
So I was saying I think the resources should go into another solution.

I've been in discussion with winflector about partnering with them to offer the hosted solution, and also talked to them about making a native client software for os/2, but it seems they are not interested:

"I'm afraid it's not so easy. To engage in software development for a niche environment, you need hardware, software, and application development tools. In addition, you need to learn a new, unfamiliar environment, and above all, you need to distract the team from the ongoing work of maintaining and developing the core versions of our software. It's probably safe to assume that a dedicated client for OS/2 won't be created, but you can try using the browser version, assuming there are modern versions of Opera, Chrome, or Firefox that work on OS/2."

And the last sentence is interesting.. as in the future it's possible the browser won't be modern enough for winflector to work.
Not sure about that though.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2026, 11:29:03 pm by David Kiley »

JTA

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Re: Mypal68: A possible alternative browser?
« Reply #34 on: Today at 01:06:42 am »
That last bit from Winflector is interesting, because I offered to buy them an ArcaOS seat & such (afaik, the only $$$ part of a dev machine's software, as all else seems to be free or open source?).

I'm not sure, but I thought that an existing Winflector 32-bit linux client would mean a fairly easy port to OS/2.

So, the bigger problem is that they think OS/2 is too "niche". Unless AN gets involved, it may be hard to dissuade them from this view ... if there are no seat numbers, there's no way to judge interest.

How do we get AN, EComStation, and OS/2 Warp seat count? I can see potential seat numbers in the thread view counts on OS2World ... other sources?
« Last Edit: Today at 01:08:18 am by JTA »

David Kiley

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Re: Mypal68: A possible alternative browser?
« Reply #35 on: Today at 02:49:33 am »
Yeah. I asked them if we achieved 200 virtual users and all 200 users were willing to pay something for the client app..and that was their response. That would have been over 6 thousands of dollars in "seats" plus the client license fees. That would be a pretty high bar and I would think enough financial return.So they are really not interested in developing a native app. in one sense I get it.. coding for os/2 isn't an easy venture. They don't even have a native app for os/x which has a lot more users

 The big question is if we can continue to make the browser compatible enough. Like if they come out with html6 will it be codable with what we have. I would think coding the base might be easier then the whole browser but I don't know.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:59:23 am by David Kiley »

Dave Yeo

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Re: Mypal68: A possible alternative browser?
« Reply #36 on: Today at 05:56:51 am »

I'm not sure, but I thought that an existing Winflector 32-bit linux client would mean a fairly easy port to OS/2.

Not really, unless it uses Qt which is about the only widget set we share with Linux. The Windows 32 bit version would actually be easier as Windows and OS/2 are cousins. It would still be hard as hell, perhaps easier to go the Odin route. A small team might be able to do it in a year including testing etc to make it stable. Can't see it making business sense.

Quote
So, the bigger problem is that they think OS/2 is too "niche". Unless AN gets involved, it may be hard to dissuade them from this view ... if there are no seat numbers, there's no way to judge interest.

How do we get AN, EComStation, and OS/2 Warp seat count? I can see potential seat numbers in the thread view counts on OS2World ... other sources?

It's hard to say how many OS/2 users there still are, but I doubt there's many using OS/2, eCS and AOS full time. Even if we knew how many licenses Arca Noae has sold, it wouldn't mean much as a lot of them are likely tyre kickers. I've seen a few people from the past show up with an AOS license, play a bit and move on.
AN itself doesn't have much in the way of resources, otherwise they could have found a skilled developer to update our existing browser years ago, before we fell so far behind.