OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical > Programming
Discussion about Open Source - Was: eCS 2.2 C API documentation
Martin Iturbide:
--- Quote from: Sigurd Fastenrath on August 27, 2014, 04:39:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ian Manners on August 27, 2014, 03:47:00 pm ---Eugene,You talk as if you have been educated by Microsoft,
--- End quote ---
Upps - according to your own rules that sounds a bit strange, doesn't it?
--- End quote ---
It does not sound like an insult to me. I have good friends working on Microsoft :)
Martin Iturbide:
I'm sorry Eugene, but you don't seem to get reasons. Just answer "What will happen to your software if you suddenly die ?" - I know it is extreme, but it may happen to you and me.
Thanks for sharing Sigurd
--- Quote ---- Open source clones of OS/2 parts is a good idea, may be the only long shot strategy for OS/2 - but it seems to me a mountain to high to climb. It would need reverse engineering - and the well known problems to WPS Programming
--- End quote ---
The issue I think is that we don't have a long term strategy, and people that have corporate sponsors also do not have it. I understand the dream is big "AN OPEN SOURCE OS/2 CLONE!!!"... wow that's big.... But a big dream is just made of little efforts that adds up.
It will be as nice to start with PM (Dreaming in Technicolor) following a process like this:
- "ok, let's make an open source of PM". .... (wow that is too much...Big dream)
- "Here are the components of PM API" .... link ... (wow there are too many components)
- "uhmmm I think that "Window_Functions" API compoment may be a good place to start" ....link ..... (wow... that is still too much)
- "I'm going to start cloning WinInitialize()"..... link.... (that seems to be more manageable)
If WinInitialize() is cloned (maybe it had been done already on the past, I just grab it as example), and the source code shared, it will a little step, maybe useless right now, but it will be an step. The sum of little steps can pull a big dream. And maybe that little sum of small steps can inspire other people to join to make the little steps move faster.
--- Quote ----More realisitc allways seemd to me to be a way to clone the WPS on top of a Linux system, a "OS/2 distribution" - I would guess this would need less work than reprogramming OS/2 but one would get of the most driver problems and concentrate on fewer tasks
--- End quote ---
I also thought first about WPS. The best idea will be to extend the XWorkplace project and convert that project with the goal of replacing the WPS classes one by one with open source code. But after reading more about the OS/2 architecture, WPS is builded over SOM, and SOM/WPS runs over PM.
I got to the conclusion (I don't know if I'm complete right) that the base of OS/2 GUI applications is PM. The API that constructs how the OS/2 GUI looks is part of PM and it far more important that SOM/WPS. (personal opinion).
I got to that conclusion to see the quantity of WPS based applications that it exists. (link) . Compared to the PM applications that runs without SOM/WPS, the WPS applications quantity is very small. The soul of running OS/2 GUI application is in fact PM.
What it will be incredible is to start cloning PM, and that IBM's OS/2 SOM and WPS keep running over it. SOM/WPS may be important for the OS/2's desktop, icons and but PM is real thing that has the OS/2 GUI soul. In final words (sorry I drift too much) PM is OS/2 GUI, WPS is the desktop shell and SOM is the OO framework on which WPS was constructed.
So, cloning WPS over linux may be able to produce a similar OS/2 desktop on Linux, but PM applications (The majority of GUI OS/2 apps) will be incompatible. PM is the the real thing, but to be honestly I will prefer to have a PM open source clone running over OS/2-ecs first, and if someone wants to port it over Linux, he is welcome to do it.
But is someone will like to start with WPS open source clone, I will also support that project !! I will support and help (in whatever I can) to anyone that produces a open source DLL and EXE that can replace any IBM close source component of OS/2.
--- Quote ---I am looking forward to our user meeting in Cologne to discuss with other users in a gentle, realistic and calm way.
--- End quote ---
....but there is no problem also discussing here, I try to be always calm :) Sometime the discussion may not be complete realistic, but I had found out that it is good to "dream big" and after that you start something small, but the "big dream" gives you the goal.
Martin Iturbide:
--- Quote ---I am wondering how long one can ride the dead horse...
--- End quote ---
Wow a missed that one.. in my case, how long can you have a hobbie? Months? Years? a Lifetime?
I started to think that time is not important for the ones that are here for fun and do not have a business model with OS/2. This is a community site, while it remains fun we are going to still hang out here :)
Eugene Gorbunoff:
To Martin Iturbide:
* XWorkPlace.. As I remember, there was XFile WPS extender (XFolder + WarpEnhancer + XPager). and XWorkPlace was developed with the support of Serenity Systems. It was impossible develop this project without this investments. There was D-Day, there was collaboration with eCS developers, short terms to complete the project. This is the example of open sourced program ordered and supported by the commercial company.
* OK, AirBoot - good example, WarpIn - good example. It's impossible sell this programs, so it's normal that this apps were open sourced.
* Do you have more examples of apps developed in OS/2 and open sourced from the beginning?
* Piano Launchpad doesn't use GPL or other code. It was developed by our professional WPS developer. Of course, we have read the examples from hobbes.
* "What will happen to your software if you suddenly die " - closed source doesn't mean that the source code is stored in the Tower and nobody can see it. Other *Professional* OS/2 developers get access to our source code by request. If an accident happens, then the developers which have access to this code and have part of rights will make the decision what to do with this modules.
* One more time: we all agree that open source is good, it's easy to maintain, fix. Main question to you: who will pay for open sourcing? For open sourcing of existing apps. For creation of new and open sourced?
To Ian Manners:
> You talk as if you have been educated by Microsoft,
I was educated on the streets of OS/2 town. The market here is different from real life. OS/2 dollar is 10x more expensive (ten times). And yes, I respect Microsoft corporation.
> you have no idea what 'Open Source' software is, or what it is about
My arguments:
* I am listening all presentations of Yuri Dario which follows open source way since 90-th
* We have discussed open sourcing million times, russian articles, year 2002: http://ecomstation.ru/showarticle.php?id=63
year 2004: http://ecomstation.ru/showarticle.php?id=102
* I am reading all messages from Martin Iturbide regarding Open Source campaign
And I am working on OS/2 market and eComStation since 1996/1997, interacting with all developers of native software. So I see what happens, what the developers of shareware do.
I agree with all advantages of open sourcing. But I make questions how to apply open sourcing to OS/2 market. Filter (Remove) all open source ported software and you see different picture.
dbanet:
--- Quote from: Eugene Gorbunoff on August 27, 2014, 05:35:51 pm ---shareware
--- End quote ---
Oh shareware sucks so much...
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