OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical > Programming
Discussion about Open Source - Was: eCS 2.2 C API documentation
dbanet:
--- Quote from: guzzi on August 29, 2014, 02:04:11 am ---Yes and no. Zippy and dvd/cd toys were developed because some money could be made from it. Despite the price, it won't be much money because the user base is small. If, and only if, people would shell out the money anyway to pay for other people developing similar software open source, that would indeed be better. But people don't, or only in a limited way. You and Martin talk about 'squeezing money out of people'. That isn't the case. Nobody forces you to buy. I would of course prefer if ecosoft would produce open source software. I'm not so sure they would be able to continue as a business if they did.
--- End quote ---
Yes, this is capitalism, and there's nothing illegal (usually) in what Eugene does with the software.
But there's an issue again.
I've described feelings of a hypothetical new user (don't laugh please here, there are some). And that's what he/she sees: wherever you go, there's pay, pay, pay, pay, no matter that even the base OS costs more than brand new Win 8.1, huh... not funny, this is sad.
When the community has got limited resources, it is better to finance Open Source projects, than buying commercial software.
In the first case you pay and you make good to yourself and the others.
In the second case you pay and you may or may not make good to yourself and the commercial structure you pay to.
Eugene Gorbunoff:
Two arguments:
1) Moreover, the users get Windows license for free (with new computer). So it's clear that we can't sell OS/2 to new people.
OS/2 can be sold to new customers only if:
* a company purchases it ..
* .. to use as black box (with running program which performs one task)
So, this example that OS/2 + shareware apps is more expensive than Win 8 licenses with the included apps is not important in our discussion.
2) Again, nobody can demonstrate examples of open source software created in OS/2. (yes, I see many small open sourced free utilities). There are many open source apps ported from linux only. In reality, there is no OS/2 Open Source projects (we have .. ~ 5 .. 10 open source projects of medium size only: XWP, PM123, Warpin, ..).
> it is better to finance Open Source projects, than buying commercial software.
(it's equal to "it is better to finance porting from Linux, than buying native software").
So, this conclusion is dangerous and wrong.
You recommend to users pay for "imported" software. And don't support developers of native software. This kills OS/2 platform.
For Dutch users: Imagine that all milk in your shops is imported from Romania, all beef from Argentina, all cheese from Switzerland. Tulips from Turkey, etc. As result, dutch people will spend more time watching TV because of unemployment.
My conclusion from our discussion:
Imported software should pay taxes. Imported libraries should be free of taxes. But it's impossible to collect the taxes. In this case, it's necessary prohibit the sponsorship of applications porting. And support porting of libraries only.
Martin Iturbide:
Eugene. Imagine a world without frontiers when nothing it is imported and everything is just from "one world".
There are important open source software on OS/2, free and paid. Belive it or not ACPI is based from an open source software (non-copyleft), Qt, OpenOffice, etc... everything is important. eComStation is almost Warp 4.5 with open source software on it, is eComStation project important to you?
Saying that porting open source software, is like importing milk to country that produced milk just sounds like nationalist/populist political crap. Don't make dumb comparisons, Japan does imports everything and convert is to better stuff, it is island factory that convert goods. Now you start saying that Open Source is a fiasco on eComstation.ru? Please Eugene, this discussion is hurting you.
Let fix this is in the capitalistic way. Is your company giving you money? Can you post your company revenue results of the last year? Is you company sustainable?
I'm sorry Eugene. I think I'm making a mistake giving you so much space. The good thing is that discussion is public and people can take their own conclusions.
Eugene Gorbunoff:
> Imagine a world without frontiers when nothing it is imported and everything is just from "one world".
Is it joke? Look at Europe Union, one economical zone. Yes, Germany, Netherlands live in prosperity, but Eastern Europe, Greece, Spain automatically become poor. If introduce import taxes between EU member again, then South/East countries will restore their economical state.
The frontiers are important and will exist forever.
> ACPI is based from an open source software (non-copyleft), Qt, OpenOffice, etc... everything is important.
Green corridor:
* Qt is the runtime, library. It should be ported.
* ACPI is the driver. it should be ported.
Red corridor:
* Qt GUI apps
* Windows GUI apps (Odin )
Red corridor exceptions:
* OpenOffice is the end-user, GUI applications, it's bad that it is ported. As result, 0 native editors, office suites. On the other side, there is no analogue, so it may be ported, income should be forwarded to native software
* Firefox. no analogues, => may be ported, it's difficult take taxes.
> Now you start saying that Open Source is a fiasco on eComstation.ru?
No, I say that open source is a form to achieve the goal, not the goal.
There are other tasks and goals, and open sourcing is used since 90-th already.
> I think I'm making a mistake giving you so much space.
There is not problems here, the moderators remove my messages from this forum periodically.
Moreover, you need critics. If you are going visit OS/2 events (conferences) and talk with other users and developers, you will listen that other people don't understand your plan of Open Sourcing. As I said: To develop open source apps you need 1000x more money that to develop semi-commercial software. People (european developers) don't understand where are you going find financial resources?
I will repeat one more time: To develop open source software you should spend millions dollars. To develop semi-commercial eComStation you can spend N thousand dollars. The investors/sponsors of eCS didn't had millions, they had restricted resources, that's why eCS is not open-source.
Martin Iturbide:
Eugene, this is OS/2. Not Window, not Linux. There is no market share for shareware to end users. If making open source software on OS/2 is not sustainable, making shareware on this platform is less sustainable.
Please tell me:
Is your company giving you money? Can you post your company revenue results of the last year? Is you company sustainable?
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